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Thread: NonDominant Diminished 7th chords #2 and #6

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    NonDominant Diminished 7th chords #2 and #6

    #ii diminished 7th chord in major key:

    #ii(dim)7-I(6) first inversion

    D#-F#-A-C

    #vi diminished 7th chord in major key:

    #vi(dim)7-V(6)

    A#-C#-E-G

    Beethoven used these chords alot they are Non-Dominant Diminished 7th chords

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent
    Beethoven used these chords alot they are Non-Dominant Diminished 7th chords
    How do you know they are not used as part of dominant chords? It is possible to leave out a root note.

    Lets say that an F note was left out of the first chord. F,A,C,D#,F# This is a typical Dominant application. It uses the dimminished seventh arpegio to bring out the b9 note.

    A few other examples of Dominant applications are:
    Bb,C,D#,F#,A
    D,D#,F#,A,C
    E#,F#,A,C,D#
    F,A,C,D#,F#



    If not used as a dominant application, it could be a minor application. Such as a sub for Am, Cm,D#m or F#m.
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    Thanks for the information

    What are Non-Dominant chords?

    What are Non-Dominant Diminished chords?

    Why are #2 and #6 so speacial for non-dominant diminished?

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    Are you saying a Non-Dominant chord is with no Root note?

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    Quote Originally Posted by brent
    What are Non-Dominant chords?

    What are Non-Dominant Diminished chords?
    I have never heard of these terms. To me it sounds like anything that isn't one of those.
    Quote Originally Posted by brent
    Why are #2 and #6 so speacial for non-dominant diminished?
    I am not seeing these notes as refference notes.

    In a minor aplication, I see as reference notes, "the root, minor third, flat five and the sixth."

    For a Dominant application, I would use the following refference notes, "flat nine, major third, fifth, minor seventh."
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent
    Are you saying a Non-Dominant chord is with no Root note?
    Actually, what I am saying is that even if the root note is excluded, there may still be a Dominant function. (It's just missing one note)
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    Thanks Los for the help

    IN my harmony bood the #2 and #6 non-dominant diminished 7th chords are only in Major keys

    I don't get why a #2 or #6 would be Diminished 7th chords why?

    And i Don't get the theory what Non-Dominant diminished chords are?

    What does Non-dominant Diminished mean?

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    To me, the word "Non-Dominant" seems very ambiguous. It must have made sense in the context that you read it, but by itself, it does not seem to be of much use since it could mean just about anything, Other than Dominant.
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    It says in my book that Non-dominant do not function as secondary leading tones chords.

    The root of the chord resolves up a half step to the 3rd of the following chord

    The 7th resolves "Stationary" not down

    The Non-Dominant diminished 7th inversions:
    The roots of these chords resolve up half step to the 3rd

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent
    It says in my book that Non-dominant do not function as secondary leading tones chords.

    The root of the chord resolves up a half step to the 3rd of the following chord

    The 7th resolves "Stationary" not down

    The Non-Dominant diminished 7th inversions:
    The roots of these chords resolve up half step to the 3rd
    Again, I do not know what this means. It seems like you are quoting a small part of a big subject here and it is not possible to comprehend without the entire story.
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    sorry but thats all my harmony books says about this #2 and #6 non dominant diminished chords

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    Does your book not define these terms? I bet you have your answers in your book.
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    Non-dominant do not function as secondary leading tones chords
    These is the only reason i think they call them non-dominant diminished chords
    because you can't tonicization them

    It says you can use the #2 and #6 non-dominant diminished chords as pivot
    chord also to modulate but in the whole book i read it , it doesn't say nothing at all why they call them "non-dominant" i think because you can't tonicization them

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    Well for the most part, Diminished chords are somewhat key-less in that it is hard to tell what key they belong to. Diminished chords have long been used to jump to another key.
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    Chromatic Mediants chords
    Chromatic Mediants in Major keys



    VI,bVI,bvi

    III, bIII, biii

    Chromatic Mediants in Minor Keys

    vi,#VI,#vi

    iii,#III,#iii

    used to substitute for the dominant in a cadence

    If a key has Flats or Sharps you can use "natural chromatic mediants"

    (natural) VI,III,vi,iii in major or minor keys


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