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Thread: Borrowing from dorian,phrygian,Lydian,Miolydian,Locrian

  1. #1
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    Borrowing from dorian,phrygian,Lydian,Miolydian,Locrian

    In Classical Harmony the basic is borrowing from Parallel natural minor mode which is borrowing from a natural Minor key but there is other modes we can borrow from like dorian,phrygian,Lydian,Mixolydian,Locrian, Harmonic Minor and Melodic Minor modes and Keys

    Borrowing from a Relative Mode in the same key:
    What Chords does dorian have I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII
    What Chords does Phrygian have I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII
    What chords does Lydian have I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII
    What chords does Mixolydian have I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII
    What chords deos Aeolian have I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII
    What chords does Locian have I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII
    What chords does Harmonic Minor have I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII
    What chords does Melodic Minor have I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII

    Example: C major borrowing from
    D Dorian chords I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII
    E Phrygian Chords I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII
    F Lydian Chords I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII
    G Mixolydian I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII
    A Aeolian I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII

    The hard part is What kind of Chords are these on each degrees of these
    modes ? Which scale degrees are major or minor or flattened or sharped
    relative to "C" major scale?

    From these relative modes we can borrow from any degree I-VII


    Borrowing from a Parallel Mode in the same key:
    Example: C major borrowing from
    "C" Dorian chords I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII
    "C" Phrygian Chords I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII
    "C" Lydian Chords I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII
    "C" Mixolydian I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII
    "C" Aeolian I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII

    The hard part is What kind of Chords are these on each degrees of these
    modes ? Which scale degrees are major or minor or flattened or sharped
    relative to "C" major scale?

    From these "Parallel" modes we can borrow from any degree I-VII

  2. #2
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    Since modes can be seen, rudimentarily, as the major scale begun and ended on a different degree; it would thus hold that the pattern of chords appearing in a mode would be the same as appearing on a different degree, would it not?

    Maj: I-ii-iii(b9)-IV-V-vi-vii°
    Dorian: i-ii(b9)-III-IV-v-vi°-VII
    (continue throughout the modal system)

    Thusly, knowing which degrees are flattened (or the singular sharp in lydian) in each of the modes gives you the different chromatic roots you could use for each degree, and knowing the system of chords in each mode would lend itself to knowing what type of chord that would be?

    I really wouldn't recommend borrowing from all 7 modes though, your tonality would just get confusing, IMO.

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    Thanks for the information

    i Have heard of composers borrowing from parallel Modes to modulate
    to Major or Minor keys
    example Key of C major:

    whats the Mediant chord( 3rd degree) in C phrygian?

    example Key of C major :

    What the sub-median chord (6th degree) in C Mixolydian?

    example key of C major:

    Whats the SuperTonic chord ( 2nd degree) in C Lydian?

    example key of C major:

    Whats the Subdominant chord ( 4th degree) in C Aeolian?

    Modulating to a New Secondary Tonal Center/level
    borrowing chords from the parallel Modes

    The hard part is how to figure these chords out. Which notes are sharp or flat
    major or minor? What does the C dorian,phrygian,Lydian,Mixolydian,Locrian
    Keys look like? because that would tell which notes are sharp or flat.

  4. #4
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    take the key of C:

    C,Dm,Em,F,G,Am,G,Am,Bdim

    Ionian= C,Dm,Em,F,G,Am,G,Am,Bdim
    Dorian= Dm,Em,F,G,Am,G,Am,Bdim,C,
    Phrygian= Em,F,G,Am,G,Am,Bdim,C,Dm,
    Lydian= F,G,Am,G,Am,Bdim,C,Dm,Em,
    Mixolidian= G,Am,G,Am,Bdim,C,Dm,Em,F
    Aeolian= Am,G,Am,Bdim,C,Dm,Em,F,G,
    Locrian= G,Am,Bdim,C,Dm,Em,F,G,Am,

    As you can see, it's not very hard to figure out the chords since they are all the same. (just in a different order) Now if you want to view them as parralel modes, then you need to reffer to the parrent scale. as in C dorian is from the key of Bb. C phrygian is from the key of Ab. etc.
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    minus the extra G and Am in every example...hehe

    borrowing leads to some interesting results.

    Say you have Dm7 - G7 - CMaj7 (ii-V in C)
    Instead of using chords from only Ionian, we use different modes. The II chord in C ionian is Dm7, but what if we take the II chord from C phrygian? That would leave us with DbMaj7 - G7 - CMaj7...that's kind of cool.
    It gets really fun when you start borrowing from melodic and harmonic minor and the diminshed scale, using the same principle.

    Oh, and if you are comfortable enough with voice leading you can just inject these into improv situations whenever you feel like, much like tri-tone sub'ing anything you feel like, regardless of what the other people are playing.
    Last edited by silent-storm; 08-29-2005 at 06:41 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by silent-storm
    minus the extra G and Am in every example...hehe

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    Thanks for the help

    take the key of C:

    C,Dm,Em,F,G,Am,G,Am,Bdim

    Ionian= C,Dm,Em,F,G,Am,G,Am,Bdim
    Dorian= C, D , E ,F ,G , A , B
    Phrygian=
    Lydian=
    Mixolidian=
    Aeolian=
    Locrian=

    What are the chords for the Parallel Modes?
    Which ones are sharp,flat,major,minor thats the hard part is the parallel modes?

  8. #8
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    well I'm sure you could figure this one out yourself.

    If you want C dorian we know that C dorian comes from Bb Major, and I'm sure you could figure out the chords to Bb Major...C dorian has the same chords.

    Someone will let you know if what you post is wrong.

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    C dorian comes from Bb Major so they have the Same Key Signature
    B and E are Flat in C dorian

    C phrygian is from the key of Ab major have the same Key signature
    B,E,A,D are Flat in C Phrygian

  10. #10
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    Correct
    but maybe that last post was a bit confusing...

    being able to think in parallel modes is very helpful...but you can learn to do so by just getting really good at thinking in parent major keys. If you know how to figure out what the major key is and you know the formula for the given mode ie dorian is Im7 IIm7 bIIImaj7 IVmaj7 Vm7 VIm7b5 VIImaj7 and you know this by either memorizing or relating it back to the parent ionian mode...all of this will eventually combine to form an individual way of being able to think in parallel modes.

    For myself I don't really relate back to major keys at all, I think entirely in parallel modes. But maybe that wouldn't well for you. Most people have no problem in relating everything back to a major scale...it just isn't the way I think.

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    C Dorian Chords
    C maj7-Dmin7-Ebmaj7-F maj7-Gmin7-Amin7b5-Bmaj7
    dorian is Im7 IIm7 bIIImaj7 IVmaj7 Vm7 VIm7b5 VIImaj7

    If im in the Key of C and what to modulate to C dorian the bIIImaj7 , VIm7b5
    are chords that are chromatic from C major to modulate to Dorian modal key center

    The only chords that are different are Ebmaj 7th (3rd in C dorian) the V is Minor
    in Dorian? adn the Flat 5th in the sixth degree in C dorian can use as subing
    to modulate to C dorian

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by brent
    C Dorian Chords
    C maj7-Dmin7-Ebmaj7-F maj7-Gmin7-Amin7b5-Bmaj7
    dorian is Im7 IIm7 bIIImaj7 IVmaj7 Vm7 VIm7b5 VIImaj7

    If im in the Key of C and what to modulate to C dorian the bIIImaj7 , VIm7b5
    are chords that are chromatic from C major to modulate to Dorian modal key center

    The only chords that are different are Ebmaj 7th (3rd in C dorian) the V is Minor
    in Dorian? adn the Flat 5th in the sixth degree in C dorian can use as subing
    to modulate to C dorian
    I presume the Cmaj7 on the first line is a typo...

    Remember dorian has a bVII as well, so it would be BbMaj7. Also, the IVth degree should be dominant. So, the only 7th chord that is the same between C ionian and C dorian is Dm7. There are plenty of ways to modulate/change modes, but one of the more common ways is to find chords that are the same and use them in a cadence.

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    All the mode are related back to the parent Major key/scale formula

    Ionian: 1-2-3-4-5-6-7

    C-D-E-F-G-A-B

    Dorian: I-2-b3-4-5-6-b7

    C-D-Eb-F-G-A-Bb

    Phrygian: 1-b2-b3-4-5-b6-b7

    C-Db-Eb-F-G-Ab-Bb

    Lydian: 1-2-3-#4-5-6-7

    C-D-E-F#-G-A-B

    Mixolydian: 1-2-3-4-5-6-b7

    C-D-E-F-G-A-Bb

    Aeolian: 1-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7

    C-D-Eb-F-G-Ab-Bb

    Locrian: 1-b2-b3-4-b5-b6-b7

    C-Db-Eb-F-Gb-Ab-Bb


    C Dorian:

    I chord type is Minor chord
    C minor chord

    II chord type is Minor chord
    D minor chord

    **III chord type is a Flatted 3rd major chord relative to the major scale**
    Eb major chord

    IV chord type is Major chord
    F major chord

    V chord type is "minor" dominate
    g minor Dominate chord relative to the major scale

    VI chord type is Diminished chord
    A diminished

    **VII chord type is "Flat" Major relative to the major scale
    Bb major chord

    C Phrygian:

    I chord type is Minor chord
    C minor

    **II chord type is "Flat" Major chord relative to the major scale
    Db majar chord

    **III chord type is "Flat" major chord relative to the major scale
    Eb Major chord

    IV chord type is Minor chord
    F minor chord

    V chord type is Diminished chord
    G Diminished chord

    VI chord type is "Flat" Major chord
    Ab Major chord

    VII chord type is Minor chord
    Bb minor chord

    C Lydian:

    I chord type is Major chord
    C major chord

    II chord type is Major chord
    D major chord

    III chord type is Major chord
    E major chord

    IV chord type is ? "a sharp #4"
    F# Diminished chord i think?

    V chord type is Major chord
    G Major chord

    VI chord type is Minor chord
    A minor chord

    VII chord type is Minor chord
    B minor

    C Mixolydian:

    I chord type is Major chord
    C major

    II chord type is Minor chord
    D minor

    III chord type is Diminished triad "the Flat 7th" which is the 5th of this chord
    E diminished chord

    IV chord type is Major triad
    F major chord

    V chord type is minor dominate triad
    G minor chord

    VI chord type is minor triad
    A minor chord

    VII chord type is minor triad
    Bb minor chord

    C Aeolian:

    I chord type is
    II chord type is
    III chord type is
    IV chord type is
    V chord type is
    VI chord type is
    VII chord type is

    C Locian:

    I chord type is
    II chord type is
    III chord type is
    IV chord type is
    V chord typeis
    VI chord type is
    VII chord type is

  14. #14
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    What chords are a Dorian Cadence?
    What chords are a Phrygian Cadence?
    What chords are a Locrian Cadence?
    What chords are a Mixolydian Cadence?
    What chords are a Lydian Cadence?
    What chords are a Aeolain "natural minor" Cadence?

  15. #15
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    Ionian through Locrian are called modes. Modes are one thing. A Cadence is something else. A Cadence gives a feeling of completeness. It is usually achieved though the use if the Chord on the fifth degree (and usually as a Dominant chord) and is usually found as the last or second to last chord. Haven't we already covered this in detail?
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