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Thread: Atonality

  1. #1
    Registered User synesthesia's Avatar
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    Atonality

    I've played relatively long enough, and have listened to tons of music,
    all genres....eras...

    One thing that intrigued me back when I got "serious" about learning to
    play and was at the time listening to aot of piano composers was the
    later works by Liszt on up to "da man" himself...Alexander Scriabin.

    Now that I hear cliche licks and tunes everytime I go on the net, it's
    intrigued me even more.

    I've been trying to explore that a bit in my own music...and of course
    with the Guitar..and other modern instruments.

    For those that might not know what Atonality is exactly....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atonality

    And here are some works from the composer's websites to clips of
    Atonality.

    Prokofiev
    Atonal clip of Prokofiev's Piano work...

    And some great links to the Piano Society.

    Anyone who is interested should definitely check out the first
    movement of both Scriabin's work...and Trevisan as well...

    Since there is no dominate key to keep returning to, among other
    things....it leaves the player/composer/artist.....more room to display
    things that otherwise couldn't be done with do re mi fa so la ti do...
    ...major/minor routine.

    http://www.pianosociety.com/index.php?id=277

    http://www.pianosociety.com/index.php?id=25
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  2. #2
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    I've always found it bizzare how atonal music can actually be some of the best or some of the worst music you hear because by definition pure atonality, like that of Pierre Boulez, is suppose to be completely random...or mathematically so complex that it comes across as randomness.

    I've never really gotten into the classical side of it, but I've listened to a lot of free jazz. The problem I have with it is that it has forever been an excuse for not learning much about your instrument or composition...so you're left with a bunch of mediocre players at best that couldn't hack it in any other situation. If you listen to Ornette Coleman, his improvisations are some of the most virtuostic ever on the saxophone, plus he knew charlie parker inside out. My personal favourite is the free jazz improv's Keith Jarrett has done, where it's free to go wherever they want but they all know exactly where they are, he could modulate to any key and the band will follow him, thus an eliment of an actual song is retained...plus they are all just rediculaly good in every setting which doesn't hurt either.

  3. #3
    Registered User synesthesia's Avatar
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    I wasn't referring to "mediocre" players who can't play an Aeolian run,
    or can't sweep pick...or basically can't play a lick.

    I was referring to the concept and how I like it and am in the process of
    working this musical "theory" into my music...because to me...it's a he**uva
    lot more interesting than someone posting some lame SRV diary...or a cover
    of Stairway to Heaven in a Soundoff forum.

    Please try and keep this topic out of the ridiculous.

    Thanks.
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  4. #4
    I, Galactus oRg's Avatar
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    Check out these threads:
    Quadratonal Apreggios
    Serialism and Atonality

    I've also posted some atonal powertabs around here as well.

    I think in order to use atonality effectively one owuld need to be rather knowledgeable in music theory in order to understand how to resolve tensions. My favorite atonal composition would have to be Verklarte Nacht by Arnold Schoenberg. Very good stuff. There's also George Perle, Anton Webern, and Franz Listz's "Bagatelle without Tonality".
    v2sw3CUhw6ln3pr6OFck3ma9u6Lw3Xm6l6Ui2Ne5t5TSFDAb8T DOen7g6RZATHCMHPa21s6MSr53Dp3hackerkey

  5. #5
    Registered User synesthesia's Avatar
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    Hey cool man.

    I am aware of basic theory...as in if a chord progression is based in E or
    maybe E-flat minor...I would look for scales, arps, whatever I needed
    personally in the key of E....E flat (Minor)..and also maybe a major
    sequence I could use in the same key.

    Then you have the chords the tune goes through...etc. etc.

    Then major...minor...7 modes....diminished...altered...Be-bop...
    Roumanian...3 octave minors and majors...etc. etc.

    I'm not a guru in the sense that I know every term, but people who talk
    theory have often put into WORD definition...what I already knew or had
    explored by ear and my relative knowledge.

    Anyhoo...

    I liked a couple of the PT downloads....

    Not something I would use...but does give ideas.

    Nice and informative post bud.
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  6. #6
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    hmmm, maybe this isn't as rediculas:

    do you or anyone else on this forum have any method for playing 12 tone rows? There are some crazy guys out there, Ben Monder comes to mind, who seem to be able to improvise them. Quadratonal arpeggios are definatly one way, but I want to be able to do them independantly of any arpeggio...just all 12 notes in whatever way I feel. I was considering memorizing a few sequences then attempting to alter them a note at a time, but I wouldn't mind some other people's thoughts

  7. #7
    Registered User synesthesia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silent-storm
    hmmm, maybe this isn't as rediculas:

    do you or anyone else on this forum have any method for playing 12 tone rows? There are some crazy guys out there, Ben Monder comes to mind, who seem to be able to improvise them. Quadratonal arpeggios are definatly one way, but I want to be able to do them independantly of any arpeggio...just all 12 notes in whatever way I feel. I was considering memorizing a few sequences then attempting to alter them a note at a time, but I wouldn't mind some other people's thoughts
    I'm working on this very thing.

    It's friggin hard...will take some time...alot of time I suspect.
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  8. #8
    Registered User synesthesia's Avatar
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    Well...after much research I found that to even achieve true atonality
    on an electric guitar, you must first get a guitar that has more than just
    the twelve tones.

    Violins...sitars...things like that can get into 17...24 tones...some
    instruments, of which I don't know what they are, can get up to
    183 tones.

    See link below for maybe every possibility known to man.

    http://www.xs4all.nl/~huygensf/doc/modename.html

    They make fretless guitars...custom builds...expensive.

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  9. #9
    Detroit VidKid's Avatar
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    Spirals

    I've been exploring this area also using 12-tone as a springboard for "outside" material. Here are some Spirals that use all the 12-tones in contrary motion as a melodic theme. The two lines converging toward a cental tone. You can experiment with these over over a static Am Dorian or over E7 alt. Phrasing is the key and they need to be resolved to diatonic chord tones in the final phrase.

    VK
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Yesterday's dissonance is today's consonance, while today's atonal is tomorrow's consonance-Liebman

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