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Thread: Big Band / Orchestra

  1. #16
    allrounder live's Avatar
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    I've been in the library today - here are my results:

    I borrowed
    - a Bob Mintzer CD
    - 2 John Scofield Instrucitonal Videos
    - some jazz theory books and jazzguitar books for practical work...
    + other things


    In the musicshop they only had some of the "new real books" which were all trash...
    Perhaps they can get the 6th edition you have mentioned (btw: is it this one http://www.playjazz.com/FBO076.html ???) to let me have a look on it. In the web it looks more attractive because it's cheaper than most of the others and has (like you said) all of the 'standard' standards (if we mean the same book -> let me know!)...


    So far...
    live
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    Last edited by live; 03-28-2011 at 12:38 AM.

  2. #17
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    that's the one!

  3. #18
    allrounder live's Avatar
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    I have this Real Book for a few days now and I'm very satisfied with it! Just turning on Band In A Box and choosing a site in this book and starting to play is a nice excercise! I want to have a look at this book, too: "Forward Motion: From Bach to Bebop - A Corrective Approach to Jazz Phrasing" by Hal Galper -> Any recommend on it?
    Is "A Modern Method For Guitar Vol. 1,2,3 Complete" good to practice sight reading? (There's a book called "Reading Studies For Guitar" Or "Advanced Reading Studies For Guitar", too...) Any advices?

    Thanks in advance! Cheers

    live
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    Last edited by live; 03-28-2011 at 12:46 AM.

  4. #19
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    The sight reading really depends on your level.

    For beginer to intermediate anything works that has notes on it.

    For advanced I would recommend either the Charlie Parker Omnibook or Jerry Bergonzi's Thesaurus of Intervallic Melodies, which also doubles as an advanced ear training book amoung other things.

  5. #20
    allrounder live's Avatar
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    Hey silent, thx again!


    I use the standards for sight reading, too! But dunno if it's enough for that...thought that more stuff couldn't hurt me... Improving the jazz-skills is very much fun for me but can anyone share an arrangement of a standard and explain his reasons for this and that(+improvisation would be amazing...)? would be great help for me! And I'm welcome for every kind of tips about improvisation and fretboard orientation. That's all I'm learning at the moment. Technique etc. too but not so much. What I really work on is:

    improvisation (Here I'm still not sure how I can work better than now - just playing
    over jamtracks etc.)
    sightreading
    chordvoicings
    rhythmicity
    and some jazz licks i can find
    Jazz Standards (has a little bit of everything else in it...)

    More tips how i can approach to that stuff? (The Bebop-Scale for example, should I absorb it or first go on with the jazz stuff and my present knowledge - if the answer is pro bebop-scale: how can I get its feeling?)

    Thanks in advance
    live
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    Last edited by live; 03-28-2011 at 12:46 AM.

  6. #21
    allrounder live's Avatar
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    I got the "Modern Method For Guitar" Books as 3 seperate books on ebay! I can recommend this books to everyone who wants to improve his sight reading...

    In my last post I asked some unanswered questions ?!


    How could the Orchestra-Leaders want me to play the standards? Just the Chords, just the Melody or both??? With the standards I've had a look at yet I tried to play first the melody and the chords alone and then I transcribed a version in which the chords include the melody-tones in their soprano-tones... How can I implement the improvisation at best? When I play alone it's hard, as I think... and how should I come back to my real arrangement?

    Thank you,
    live
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    Last edited by live; 03-28-2011 at 12:47 AM.

  7. #22
    Groovy Bastard Maarten's Avatar
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    Hi Live,

    Just a quick note on bebop scales. They are a very great tool if you understand how they work:

    In jazz you often play lines that are made up from 8th notes. In such a line it often sounds good if the chord tones fall on the beat. So if you would start to play on the 1st beat your line could be: chord tone - passing tone - ct - pt - ct - pt - ct - pt . Each of the four beats (of a 4/4 measure) gets a chord tone, in between come passing tones.
    The problem with most scales is that the are made up from 7 tones (c maj = c d e f g a b), while there are 8 8th notes in a measure. So just following the scale will not lead to the ct - pt pattern because you're short on 1 tone. Other problems also arise from this fact:
    If you want to play an C major scale over a C6 chord (standards version of a C chord) and you want to have a chord tone on each beat, if you start a descending line from c you'd get C-b-A-g-F-e-D-c. F and D should be off-beat notes.

    So in short, the fact that all those common used scales only have 7 notescauses a lot of trouble. Bebop scales are versions of these common scales with 1 passing tone added so you get an 8 note scale. Therefore, if you play a bebop scale in 8th notes and you start on a chord tone your lines will always have a strong harmonic fundament.

    The most used bebop scales are

    major: c d e f g g# a b = chord tones of a C6 chord on the beat.

    minor: c d eb f g ab bb b = chord tones of Cm7 on the beat.

    minor (dorian): c d eb f g g# a bb = chord tones of Cm6 on the beat.
    (You can mix up those two minor scales to your own liking depending on which minor-chord sound you want.)

    dominant: c d e f g a bb b = C7 sound.

    I hope this is clear, feel free to ask if you have any questions.
    Stop talking about modes and start working on your groove.

  8. #23
    allrounder live's Avatar
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    Thank you Maarten!
    So there can be '#'s and 'b's in the same bebop-scale?!?! because the scale formulas look like this:

    major: 1 2 3 4 5 #5 6 7
    minor: 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 7
    dominant: 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 7

    Quote Originally Posted by Maarten
    minor (dorian): c d eb f g g# a bb = chord tones of Cm6 on the beat.
    (You can mix up those two minor scales to your own liking depending on which minor-chord sound you want.)
    What do you mean, saying this? Can I add the 8th note where I need it to be?

    (+ minor(dorian)-scale formula is when I got it right): 1 2 b3 4 5 #5 6 b7


    thanks
    live
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    Last edited by live; 03-28-2011 at 12:47 AM.

  9. #24
    Groovy Bastard Maarten's Avatar
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    Since the added notes are passing tones they will be described with # when ascending and b when descending, but that's just details. Remember that these accidentals don't say anything about the key your in so it's not important which one you use.

    You can put the extra note anywhere you want, but you have to realise that where you place it decides which notes will fall on the beat and thus whcih chord-sound you are implying:

    For a minor doriansound, as you wrote, you can use : 1 2 b3 4 5 #5 6 b7 --> notes on the beat are 1 b3 5 6 = min6 sound
    For a natural minor sound: 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 7 --> notes on the beat are 1 b3 5 b7 = min7 sound.

    You can also get the same effect by, instead of adding a new note, taking a little sidestep so that the desired notes fall on the beat:

    Let's say you want a Minor-major7 sound and end your line on the octave: 1 b3 5 7 8 would be the notes you want on the beat. If you use the harmonic minor scale you can just play it upto the 7 to get the first 4 tones: 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 7 8. But the 8 is a problem beacause it will fall off-beat. You also can't turn the scale into a bebop scale because there is no more room between 7 and 8 to add a note.
    The thing to play here would (could) be 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 7 9 8. So I added a note from above the 8 in between the 7 and 8 to make them both fall on the beat.

    I hope this is clear, I'm just trying to explain how you can make your lines stronger harmonically by deliberately placing chord tones on the beat, and how you can use some tricks for altering your usual scales so this happens almost automatically.
    Stop talking about modes and start working on your groove.

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