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Thread: Strictly Locrian

  1. #16
    Registered User satch_master's Avatar
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    yeh, thanks for the feedback guys. very analyitical Apple joe, thats a good thing. I need some real feedback from other ears. I wanna hear your playing aswell. I think i have came to realise that a good solo from a better solo has a melody throughout it, Satch does it all the time in his songs. Like it is great to go off with full blown legato runs up and down but its boring for the listener especially if it the same thing over and over. So i tryed to develop a simple melody, go off in to some legato and pick tapping and then come back to the melody. Like obviously , every solo doesnt need a melody, especially is it is in a song, cause the vocals will provide the melody but in this case of an extended instrumental improvisation you need a melody to fill the gaps and keep interest. Well im learning, lol. and i always proof read before i post now, don't want typos everywere, not very nice.

  2. #17
    SteveH
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    Here's something you might find interesting,

    Again a backing track in E, again a similar feel and driving beat to the Locrian, but this time using the Dorian Mode. It just shows how dark the Locrian mode is in comparison.

    Have fun with it.

    Steve
    Attached Files Attached Files

  3. #18
    Ibreathe Music Advisor EricV's Avatar
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    Hey Steve

    very nice backing track, and great playing by all. Once I heard the backing track, I decided to have some fun with it, and take a more... well, amusing approach instead of focussing on the beauty of the locrian mode.
    The backing track reminded me very much of the "Engines Of Creation" album, so I decided to use some wacky sounds and tricks over the track ( I assume Schooligo is gonna kill me for that... =) )
    So I plugged in the Ibanez, dialed in some strange sound, and used a Wah and a whammy pedal-sound and recorded the first take of me playing whatever came to my mind. There are a few breaks in there, which was caused by me switching the sounds ( didnīt have the unit on the floor, but on the desk, so I had to switch by hand ).
    The sounds are not qute balanced, so you notice right away when I switch... but then again, this is supposed to be some kind of a silly approach, so I hope anyone else finds this amusing... =)

    http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/eric/locri-ev.mp3
    Eric

  4. #19
    SteveH
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    Awesome Eric!

    I'm gonna have to get my whammy pedal out and annoy the neighbours with it tonight!

    Steve

  5. #20
    Ibreathe Music Advisor EricV's Avatar
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    Great, Steve, hereīs how to do it: *evilgrin* Turn up the volume and the gain. Set the whammy pedal to 2 octaves up. Hit the natural harmonics at the 3rd or 14th fret ( those really high ones ). Pull up on the bar. Slowly, with a evil grin, raise the pitch with the pedal... up 2 octaves
    I know this because that is what Satriani did at the end of his solo when I saw him live in Philly a while ago. It was really loud at the show, PA cranked up, so when he did that one, I felt a stinging pain going down my spine =)
    Eric

  6. #21
    Registered User satch_master's Avatar
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    Wow! Awesome playing Eric V, you can really manipulate that trem can't you? Suberb tone aswell. Sounds like something experimental Vai would do.

  7. #22
    Ibreathe Music Advisor EricV's Avatar
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    Hey man, thanks a lot, glad you liked it. The whammy bar thing is something I picked up by listening to Satriani a lot ( guess thatīs not a surprise ).
    There is this part in "New Blues" where he starts to play that slow, majestic melody, and he uses those "wang bar dips"... depressing the bar a bit, hammering onto a note, slowly releasing the bar, giving it that "smooth slide into the note" sound.
    As I said, the backing reminded me of EOC, so I tried to get into that wacky experimental mode, even though the take shouldnt be taken too seriously =)
    Thanks for your kind words
    Eric

  8. #23
    Ibreathe Music Advisor EricV's Avatar
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    ...and just to make it a bit more obvious what I am talking about, I did a quick video of me using a Wah and that "dip technique"
    The effect sounds a bit exaggerated here, but usually works nice in a solo or improv.
    http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/eric/dip.avi
    Eric

  9. #24
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    By EricV:
    so I decided to use some wacky sounds and tricks over the track ( I assume Schooligo is gonna kill me for that... =) )
    LOL,

    He won't "kill you" for that, but he might "kill you" if you use a toy raygun!!
    "Success is arriving at a Personal Satisfaction within yourself"

    Dedicated To Guitar!!!

  10. #25
    SteveH
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schooligo
    By EricV:


    LOL,

    He won't "kill you" for that, but he might "kill you" if you use a toy raygun!!

    I think you two need to re-read the accompanying notes to the jam track..

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve0192
    Here's something you might find interesting,

    Again a backing track in E, again a similar feel and driving beat to the Locrian, but this time using the Dorian Mode. It just shows how dark the Locrian mode is in comparison.

    Have fun with it.

    Steve
    That's really impressive. One of the better tracks I've heard in recent time. Great defining of the atmosphere and the track itself is very refreshing. I liked the slow beginning notes, but suddenly you exploded. Then, you varied the speed in your playing again. Very good, truly. Steve, was it you who didn't use a pick when playing?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by EricV
    Hey Steve

    very nice backing track, and great playing by all. Once I heard the backing track, I decided to have some fun with it, and take a more... well, amusing approach instead of focussing on the beauty of the locrian mode.
    The backing track reminded me very much of the "Engines Of Creation" album, so I decided to use some wacky sounds and tricks over the track ( I assume Schooligo is gonna kill me for that... =) )
    So I plugged in the Ibanez, dialed in some strange sound, and used a Wah and a whammy pedal-sound and recorded the first take of me playing whatever came to my mind. There are a few breaks in there, which was caused by me switching the sounds ( didnīt have the unit on the floor, but on the desk, so I had to switch by hand ).
    The sounds are not qute balanced, so you notice right away when I switch... but then again, this is supposed to be some kind of a silly approach, so I hope anyone else finds this amusing... =)

    http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/eric/locri-ev.mp3
    Eric
    You seem to know how to produce the sounds you want to. I noticed the sounds in the beginning, then I have to admit I lost focus a little furhter into the song, then I noticed a great part in the outro. Fast, stable playing - very professional. Another example of how I want to sound. I can make good phrases using the Pentatonic, and maybe add a Aeolian note (or notes from another mode) here and there, but I am certainly not able to play like you did in the end part there. I admire it, because I tend to sound Pentatonic no matter what I do. If I concentrate, of course, I can be creative and come up with something. But when improvising, most of the time, the outcome will be very Pentatonic. The fact that this piece was Locrian makes it even more impressive. I'm gonna listen one more time, and pay attention, especially to the ending part, and try to steal some hints, and motivation.

    EDIT: I am listening to all the tracks over again. I have to say that these Locrian tracks makes me want to play. The mode is a bit different, and not so popular. Maybe that's why it sounds so interesting, and provides motivation. You're not used to it, so it grabs your attention. Maybe I'll try to record a piece myself soon, but I have a lot of work to do, if I'm gonna compete with the already uploaded tracks. I think I got to do my best using creativity, and hope it benefits me. For the technical aspest, I might be lost already, but the important thing is; this mode inspires me greatly these days!

    One final question. Steve, when I think about it now, I am almost positive it was you who said you played without a pick. I think I recognize it in your tracks too, the sound is so... defined. I might have asked already, a while ago, but could you give a few words about your fingerstyle technique?

    How's your approach? Especially for those deadly runs, I just don't understand. I'm not able to play like that myself at this point - WITH a pick. Could you explain - short but precise - the main ideas behind your technique? Just you give you an example. In your last track around 2:38 there was a fast part which impressed me a lot. And that's just one of the many parts. What's going on there?

    ... And the VERY last question for now, aimed at EricV this time: For your wang bar dips clip, it seemed like you were very 'laid-back' when it comes to the use of your whammy-bar. I've always been very careful when using it, ESPECIALLY when raising it. I got a PRS standard 24 guitar. The whammy bar is moveable both up and down, but it is certainly not loose, when it comes to raising. I don't know very much of whammy-bar's, so what do you think? I understand that there are differences between whammy bars, maybe you got one which can handle a lot of 'treatment'? Or maybe it is me who has been to careful with mine.
    Last edited by Apple-Joe; 07-26-2005 at 05:05 PM.

  13. #28
    SteveH
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple-Joe
    That's really impressive. One of the better tracks I've heard in recent time. Great defining of the atmosphere and the track itself is very refreshing. I liked the slow beginning notes, but suddenly you exploded. Then, you varied the speed in your playing again. Very good, truly. Steve, was it you who didn't use a pick when playing?
    Thanks very much for your kind words.

    It's kind of hidden away in there on the second page isnt it! I guess not too many people have noticed that there's a new backing jam track in there too. Perhaps I should have started a new thread..

    Anyway, yes everything I play is in finger style. UKRuss and I have been planning to come up with a Strictly Fingerstyle thread in the near future so hopefully we'll get into some detail then.

    The section around 2:38 is a repeating pattern isnt it? you've picked a tough pattern to start with, and if you try to play it my way, you'll see what I mean.

    I've tabbed it out and indicated the right hand fingers using classical notation. so:-

    p = thumb
    i = index
    m = middle
    a = ring finger.

    I'm sure the classical guitarists will notice that the right hand finger pattern is a classical guitar tremolo.

    Anyway hope that sheds some light for you.

    Regards

    Steve
    Attached Files Attached Files

  14. #29
    Ibreathe Music Advisor EricV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple-Joe
    ... And the VERY last question for now, aimed at EricV this time: For your wang bar dips clip, it seemed like you were very 'laid-back' when it comes to the use of your whammy-bar. I've always been very careful when using it, ESPECIALLY when raising it. I got a PRS standard 24 guitar. The whammy bar is moveable both up and down, but it is certainly not loose, when it comes to raising. I don't know very much of whammy-bar's, so what do you think? I understand that there are differences between whammy bars, maybe you got one which can handle a lot of 'treatment'? Or maybe it is me who has been to careful with mine.
    Apple Joe, first of all, thanks a lot for your kind words about my take on it. The fact that you lost focus was prolly caused because I, as usual, should have spend a bit more time ( like... a 2nd take ? ) on this in order to come up with a bit more structure. Since I mainly am writing and playing instrumental songs, structures is quite important to me, not only in order to keep it interesting for the listener.
    I am glad you liked my take, and the fast part at the end... I am not quite sure which one you mean, but for the fast parts in there, I tried my best to dip into the "Satch style of playing"... not that I came that close, but after listening to the guy for years, and surely being influenced by him, the sound of that backing track got me into EOC-mode =)

    Now, regarding your question... I donīt know if you wanna call my use of the bar "laid back" or "not careful". After all, all the whammy tricks were done by pressing down the bar, lowering the pitch.
    When it comes to RAISING the pitch, pulling up on the bar, I am not quite as reckless than some other players. Vai for example occasionally pulls up on the bar a lot, raising the pitch by like a major third. I usually donīt go that far.
    When it comes to lowering the pitch and those dips... I dunno whether it sounds reckless, but if it does, itīs because I have been using Floyd Rose type bridges for many years now. So I got used to using it a lot, cuz I can rely on the tunign stability those things provide.
    You see, when I use a guitar with a vintage style trem, or even one of those Wilkinson bridges, I hold back a lot more, simply because it drives me insane to have the guitar outta tune once I touch the bar slightly.
    Even some of those bridges are extremely stable, and I know how to set them up so they stay in tune pretty well, but I still use a Strat bridge different than a FR-style one ( not to mention the fact that my FR-style bridges are set up in a way that theyīre really easy-going... only little pressure is required )
    Anyway, regarding your PRS... I have used several PRSs for a while, like 4 or 5 years ago. Incl. a CE 22 and a CU24. Those bridges are really stable when it comes to tuning, and I think you can afford to go crazy with them.
    However, I think the FEEL of a Wilkinson or PRS style bridge is different than a floating FR-one, so I think that might limit you.
    Try this: Next time youīre at a guitar store, pick up a guitar with a FR ( or FR-style ) bridge. Plug that in, and then try to use it. It might just be that you use it more, or in a more extreme way, simply because the feel is a abit different.
    As I said, I always was quite satisifed with the tuning stability of PRS guitars and their bridges, but in case your guitar slips outta tune once you pull up on the bar a lot, or do a dive-bomb, then its understandable you hold back.
    I hope this answers your question, hope it was not too long of a post, and thanks again for your kind words
    Eric

  15. #30
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    Well, first, let me give a couple of new words about your Locrian track. When I listened to the piece a second time it got more interesting. I discovered several great details that I didn't during the first listening. Maybe it was me who was 'away' for a few moments.
    The part of your recording that I meant, was the very end, the last part where you're playing very fast, if I remember correctly it ended with a fade down. Yes, it sounded very much like Satriani.

    About my PRS bridge, I don't think it gets out of tune that easy. Definately not very out of tune. It's rather me being afraid of breaking strings.

    EDIT: Of course, you were right about your 'wang bar dips' clip. I didn't realize that you de-pressed the bar first, and then let it raise back to its natural position.
    Last edited by Apple-Joe; 07-27-2005 at 12:48 AM.

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