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Thread: analyze my progression?

  1. #16
    Jazz Apprentice Factor's Avatar
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    Nice analysis ashc!

    Quote Originally Posted by ashc
    The move to Fminor I dont have a great reason for but I think this starts to link the Dmin back torwards Cminor since you are already back in the correct territory. Then it's followed by Gmajor which is the dominant in C minor and you're home and dry.
    The Dmin -> Fmin is what we discussed a while ago, can be called a chromatic minor third passing chord.

    Gmaj Amaj Dmin is IV-V-i in D minor. These two major chords can be found when you harmonize the D melodic minor scale.

    Fmin Gmaj Cmin is iv-V-i in Cminor, tying the chorus back to the verse again.

    There are loads of chords that stem from the three minor scales (natural, melodic and harmonic minor). You can even get chords from the extra minor modal scales (dorian and phrygian (aeolian has the same notes as natural minor)).

    Attached is just some of the chords from A minor related scales (scales with A C and E)
    I couldn't get the formatting correct enough to post it.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Factor; 06-02-2005 at 12:24 PM.

  2. #17
    Registered User SkinnyDevil's Avatar
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    Here's my take.....

    First off, cool track. Very good stuff. I'd like to hear the whole song when finished!

    Second, UKRuss was correct...or ALMOST correct. I can hear the opening as a C minor phrygian (which is why F natural minor works perfectly over it), which may be the "alternatives" of which Ashc spoke (is this correct Ashc?). Of course, I can easily hear it as F minor, as did UKRuss. It all depends on where the emphasis is, and this track (like much circus-like stuff) is quasi-ambiguous, which is exactly what makes it so circus-like, I suppose.

    Third, the pre-chorus I hear most easily as moving to 5th mode of the harmonic minor (in C - or F harmonic minor).

    Fourth, the chorus I hear as a brief modulation NOT to A major, but to either A phrygian-dominant (5th mode of harmonic minor) or simply D harmonic minor, which explains the major 3 of A, but the minor 6 that becomes the minor 3 of the second chord (D minor), with the third of Dminor (F) as a pivot back into F harmonic minor (replace that G5 with a C major and it sounds perfect).

    I add that last bit because the last chord in the chorus doesn't sound like a Gmajor to me at all. There is a very clear high voice going from F to E on the final chord. Maybe it's my speakers or maybe it's my ear, but that sounds like a C major chord (from Csus4 to C in classic Baroque fashion) with your 5th (G) in the bass, not a G7 to G6.

    So, to sum up, I hear it most easily as: verse (F natural minor), pre-chorus (C phrygian-dominant), chorus (D harmonic minor to F harmonic minor) with some very nice voice-leading. That may well change once I finish my coffee, but it works well as I sit here jamming over it.

    Hope that helps.
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  3. #18
    Latin Wedding Band Los Boleros's Avatar
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    My evaluation

    Sorry for not jumping in sooner. Now that I have had time to listen and play along, here is my take on you progression.

    As you said, The first parts of the song are clearly in C minor. I am not sure wat you are calling the chorus and what is the verse but at the end is a very interesting change. You change keys to D harminic minor and seem be riding a Suspended A chord that resolves to A. The next chord is D minor then F minor. The last chord is not G major but C major. This passage, Asus/A7/Dm/Fm/C is purely key of Dminor. Of course the Asus and A7 are D harmonic minor.

    BTW. I really love the tone you have acheived in this piece. It's like a controlled overdriven signal. When I listen to it, it blows my hair back just like in that Maxell Commercial.
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  4. #19
    Latin Wedding Band Los Boleros's Avatar
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    I just read a few of the post that are indicating the key of F minor. I do not believe this is the case here. Perhaps F minor Dorian yes because that is still in the key of C minor. The note that gives it away is the D note. Try playing the D note over that first part. It's the right note. even though the chord of the moment is the F minor chord, it's from the key of C minor. you can play short riffs from F minor without sounding wrong but when you get to that Db, it will sound wrong.
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  5. #20
    Registered User ashc's Avatar
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    Ah, yes, the A takes you to Dmin and it stays there and the last chord of that section is C not G. Fortymile wrote C in his first description but G in the one I used (I didn't use my ears). The Fmin also threw me.

  6. #21
    Registered User ashc's Avatar
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    @skinnydevil: you talk about going to "phygrian dominant" and so on as if it's a key change - but modes are not keys in my book?

    What I really mean is that (even though I got it wrong) I prefer to keep the Key itself and the scale (within the key) from which the chord is derived clearly separated e.g. the key in the chorus changes to Dmin and the A major chord is drawn from the Harmonic minor harmonisation. Mixing them all up it makes something sound more complicated than it is. I guess it's only a language/terminology thing..

    In essence the summary from LosBoleros that the chorus is in Dmin (I still cant see the Fmin there other than by Factor's answer) and the rest is in Cmin is clearest and most concise - after that its scale choice which is inter-related but separate.

    Oh yes, and when I said "alternatives" I meant those chords (triads) from the 3 minor scale harmonisations on each degree that you could use.
    Last edited by ashc; 06-02-2005 at 01:43 PM.

  7. #22
    Modbod UKRuss's Avatar
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    I like all that...

    But I'm with David. I still hear the verse very clearly as Fminor.

    I don't know about the rest as I didn't listen/play over it.

    I haven't tried any analysis, just what I heard.

    But having said that I like Rudy's reason for why Fminor would work, and the other analyses are gonna take me some time to digest...

  8. #23
    Latin Wedding Band Los Boleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKRuss
    I like all that...

    But I'm with David. I still hear the verse very clearly as Fminor.

    I don't know about the rest as I didn't listen/play over it.

    I haven't tried any analysis, just what I heard.

    But having said that I like Rudy's reason for why Fminor would work, and the other analyses are gonna take me some time to digest...
    Wow Russ, that was post # 1007 for you. Wheres the party hats? Ill have a straight tequilla please.
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  9. #24
    Latin Wedding Band Los Boleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashc
    In essence the summary from LosBoleros that the chorus is in Dmin (I still cant see the Fmin there other than by Factor's answer) and the rest is in Cmin is clearest and most concise - after that its scale choice which is inter-related but separate.
    My summary may hae been easy to understand but it's not flawless. UKRuss is not wrong in his claim of Fm in the first part. The first section can be though of in two ways:

    1. In the key of F minor it would be Ab/Cm/Ab/Fm or a III/v/III/I
    2. In the key of C minor it would be Ab/Cm/Ab/Fm or a VI/i/VI/iv

    The distinguishing note is whether you use Db or D. It's really a matter of taste I guese but I hear the D as a consonant sounding note and the Db as more of a passing note. My scale of choice would be from F Dorian from the C minor scale.

    The section after that is Cdim and Cminor and very C minor sounding. I would do some sick C diminished stuff here.

    The big eruption to the next part happens not just because it goes from a C minor sound to the key of D minor,(A jump of a wholestep) but because it goes from C minor to the V of the Dm. The initial effect is that you have gone to the bVIsus of the C minor. (But it is really the Vsus of Dm)
    Last edited by Los Boleros; 06-02-2005 at 11:40 PM. Reason: was driving down the street wondering if I wrote Cm or Bm. Just as I thought.
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  10. #25
    Modbod UKRuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Los Boleros
    Wow Russ, that was post # 1007 for you. Wheres the party hats? Ill have a straight tequilla please.
    Damn! Missed it! OK, Let's par-tay!

  11. #26
    Registered User fortymile's Avatar
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    holy chroist

    that is some interesting analysis there. i will have to read that carefully once my liver has effectively processed the alcohol i'm currently drowing in.

    all i can say is: thank you, everyone, for all the careful thought y'all out into this. i'm sure several of you are ultimately right. theory: art or science?
    "All bad poetry is sincere" -- Oscar Wilde

  12. #27
    Registered User SkinnyDevil's Avatar
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    theory: art or science?
    Well said, bro!

    Wheres the party hats? Ill have a straight tequilla please.
    I knew there was a logical explanation for why you hear Db as a passing tone while I hear D as the passing tone. Just as I said: F minor (hahaha!!!).

    Now pass the Cuervo.......
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  13. #28
    Latin Wedding Band Los Boleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkinnyDevil
    Well said, bro!



    I knew there was a logical explanation for why you hear Db as a passing tone while I hear D as the passing tone. Just as I said: F minor (hahaha!!!).

    Now pass the Cuervo.......
    I am not gonna argue that one key is better than the other cause they both work. However, You can actually land on the D note and stay there. This creates an FM6 chord tone which is the essence of Dorian. you really can't stay on the Db because it has a strong tendancy to resolve downward to the C note. Try it and you will see what I mean.
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  14. #29
    Registered User SkinnyDevil's Avatar
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    I am not gonna argue that one key is better than the other cause they both work.
    Me either - I was just giving you a bit of grief. Now pass the Cuervo.....
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  15. #30
    Sonic4ever
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    1:I can't hear the Cm at the Verse.Since the synth plays a Ab tone over the C bass,it is Ab chord.Cm chord is just implied(as tonality) but not played.
    2:Prochorus is at Gm tonality which is again implied but not played:iv-VI-V(Cm-Eb-D).
    3:Chorus can be explained as:Amaj is the dominant of the II(Dm in C tonal center).
    Dm is the II chord(borrowed from C melodic minor).Fm is the iv and Gmaj is the V chord.
    I think the Tonality is clearly C minor.Try soloing this exotika:C,D,Eb,F#,G,Ab,B,on pro-chorus.

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