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Thread: 'Patterns' vs 'Notes' or?

  1. #46
    Registered User Mateo150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dommy
    Thats the difference between what hes doing and what you are doing. You are trying to use the lines as filler, instead of trying to make a continuous solo.
    Oh, ok. Is that what I do? Damn, and here all this time I thought I was trying to put together a continuous solo when all I've been doing is using licks. Thanks the help? Maybe you could site some of my recent playing so it will help me. Also, thats not what I was saying in my post, I was just quoting some previous advice that LosB gave, not saying what I or he or anyone does.

    Love to hear you post your stuff so I can learn from that. Always good to hear a pro.
    Last edited by Mateo150; 07-24-2005 at 04:51 PM.
    They call them fingers, but I never see them fing.

  2. #47
    Latin Wedding Band Los Boleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mateo150
    pardon, but how is this different from learning and using "licks"?.
    In my opinion, a lick is a shorter version of a melody. A melody is an entire phrase and a lick is merely a piece of a phrase. Hope that helps.
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  3. #48
    I like music.
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    I don't need to post clips or anything, I just saw that you said that "if you use licks, its a breather while you think of something to play." I saw that you viewed licks as a breather, while a lot of pedagogical materials that I have read and have found to ring true for me cite the importance of space, and how recalling licks is a far cry from improvising a line. Jerry Bergonzi in particular stresses this in a few of his books, and hes a guy who knows his theory internally, but can also use the musicians vernacular so to speak, to explain a complex concept.

    I'm not pulling this out of my ***, and I didn't mean to sound offensive. When you deal with this kind of context, where words and their definitions mean different things to different people without the actual inflections of human conversation, the real meaning behind a statement sometimes gets lost. I'm sorry if I bruised an ego or two here typing here, I was only trying to contribute my perspective on the subject thus far.

    I viewed your question to LosB as a perceptual thing on your part. I connected a lot with what Los B was saying about stealing licks, and how learning the lick/melody itself can contribute to ones growth as a musician. If thats not how you use licks, then why ask the question?
    Hard luck and trouble...

  4. #49
    Registered User Mateo150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Los Boleros
    In my opinion, a lick is a shorter version of a melody. A melody is an entire phrase and a lick is merely a piece of a phrase. Hope that helps.
    Ok, thats the vibe of what I thought you were saying. So your a fan of deconstructing lines/melodies into your own licks then, I take it. In that instance, It may be that thinking in notes is probably much more useful to get the sounds you imagine, or use intervals at least. IMO, thats seems to be what most people do while "improvising", how they do it is more interesting to me. Brain motor functions?

    no prob dommy, just a misread or misinterpretation. But I did write, "I've read your posts saying that, ......". Its pretty obvious I wasn't talking about myself. But if that is what I do, just use licks, I'd like some feedback on that cuz thats most certainly not what I try to do.
    Last edited by Mateo150; 07-24-2005 at 05:13 PM.
    They call them fingers, but I never see them fing.

  5. #50
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    Sorry about that. But anyway, I agree with a lot of the statements above which say that one needs a combonation of the three to some extent.

    For example, a possible relationship between patterns and note names:

    One needs to know note names to base patterns on, but when one starts to analyze what notes are what based on the root of the scale, one starts to view them as chord tones or extended tones. Learning is a very dynamic process, and I gather that if one keeps on working at translating information between the three areas, their understanding and hearing improve. Of course there are numerous facets to each area, but one should keep on using these as opportunities for growth. This has been my experience so far. I may not have been concious about the interrelationship, but It seems more obvious as I progress.
    Hard luck and trouble...

  6. #51
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    Patterns...but knowing where you are

    I agree with SeatleRuss and anyone else who talked about the difference between playing patterns blindly vs. actually keeping some kind of track as to where you are in them. This can be done with notes and/or patterns. To me, it's way easier to think of the pattern instead of actual note names...but, when it comes to ending your phrase on an "important note...a note in the chord at that moment" you just lend your thinking power to that target. Playing and thinking patterns makes flying through notes more effortless, so you can spend your energy of thought on things like the target note.
    On top of that, solo phrases and chord progressions often move in some sort of methodical way...a pattern...so, many times your ear can do most of the targetting.
    Then that brings me to remember that playing the patterns/scales many times...paying attention to how it sounds...pretty soon, you know what places to hit to go well with a given chord. So, I am against note names...but am in favor of what the people who like note names are after (but I don't believe you need note names to accomplish this) which is knowing where you are with respect to chords, etc. Either way, patterns or notes, you DO have to use your brain to keep track of where you are. I just prefer pattern thinking. It's more efficient, in my opinion.
    I'm developing an animated book dealing with this sort of thing at:
    www.garlandpool.com
    It's not done, but you can check it out. Let me know what you think!

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