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Thread: How much time do you spend on speed?

  1. #46
    Aspiring Virtuoso
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    Before I bought JP rock discipline I had 100 as synch chromatics. I was practicing a lot from the yngwie DVD. I worked on that DVD AS MY SUMMER HOLIDAY. At the end I was able to play the accuracy/speed exercise. Alternate pick through arpeggios, understand inside/outside of the picking + more, check out my previous posts on how much I practiced this, I basically got everything down (except the legato) in a summer, after the summer I was a speed freak but that does not mean I could play any pattern/sequence, I thought it would but it doesn’t, it still takes me ages to get yngwie stuff down. I remember spending 2 weeks getting 5 seconds of yngwie malmsteen’s music down. It was a really hard run from blitzkrieg. Every lick still takes me a long time to get down. I am sure once I give you this exercise tonight you will see improvements. Remember an increase in just 1 bpm a week will get you playing 50bpm extra a year. But if you want to go all out like me (12 hours a day for a 2 month period) then you can increase by 100 in 2 months.

  2. #47
    Jazz Apprentice Factor's Avatar
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    I must say I really respect the dedication with which you practice guitar! I don't think I could practice that rigorously, even though I want to.

  3. #48
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    If what you say is true arpetude, then you have a seious serious talent for the guitar, not to mention alot of free time. I mean I cant break 150 bpm, and I have been playing an ungodly length of time. To answer the question though, I practice guitar 2 hours a day, half that time on pure technique, the rest on improvisation and songwriting. This doesnt count the time I spend practicing, gigging, and recording with my band ( www.highwayten.com ), or the 16 hours a week I spend giving guitar lessons.
    I would encourage you to get away from the yngwie and explore some of the slower, and yet infinitely better guitar players, to see how they do what they do, such as page, clapton, wes montgomery, randy rhodes, and the like. I also would encourage you to check out jazz speedsters like john mclaughlin, and tal farlowe.
    It is important to not only replicate what the players you like do, but understand, why they do what they do.
    lastly, you mastered rock discipline?? Can you (or anyone else here) do the legato stuff as fast as he does?? Just curious.

  4. #49
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    hey man did you not check out every post i made regarding the instructional. i always say (exept the legato). no one plays the legato. not even JP plays the legato. the footage is sped up


    check out post number 38. doesn't seem like such a hard thing to acheive now?....i bet if you spent an hour everyday you'd reach 200 in 6 months.

    anyway i am getting into more intricate melody and i may go down the classical baroque root. so mostly 'neo-classical' or 'classical' route. i've heard jazz quite alot because i have to drum alot of of jazz which i do but find the whole 'swing thing' a bit....well.....gay.

    dont flame me its just my personall opinion. i've checked out miles davis and many others before. but i will probably download a couple of songs by the people you mention.

    i went on john mclaughlins website. seems to go on alot about his dvd. sorry i found the examples boring . he played a couple of scales(slowly)..improv'd a bit...didn't have the holy **** factor that rock disipline has. nor most of the shred stuff.. the stuff just seemed too lade back...i like 80s over the top guitaring..you know...leather spandex...2 minute solos etc ...and the passion is clear in my practicing. i am glad people like you are about. people who are on a different side of the musical spectrum . it make me and you unique. and everyone else who plays unique as well. keep doing what your soing. if you sound more like this guy john mclaughlins, and love it . stick with it and don't let anyone make you feel like you need to develop something you don't need. and if i sound more like john petrucci (i = nothing like petrucci , but closer to JP than i am some jazz guy) then i do that, and we both play with a passion .

    btw heres the new PT. on one of the mp3s i played chromatics at 250 for about 10 seconds. in this one...it is focusing purely on RH..i recomend working on this one first.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  5. #50
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    Cool, I am not a big fan of mclaughlin either, I was just saying that for some one of your obvious technical talent, it would behoove you to expand your guitar knowledge, because if you do, you will be unstoppable. I can't even approach your speed on your ptb, honestly.
    Because your learning and acheivment curve is so high, you might be in danger of becoming one of a million shredders who are really can't play because they have glossed over the fine points of creative and impactful playing in pursuit of yngwie. Thats all I'm saying. You might like tal farlow, he was a shredder of his day, and he started playing at 21. Wes montgomery rules at finding the right time to play what, and alot could be gained by learning the improv techniques of wes, clapton, etc.
    Btw, I guess I sound more like slash than I do anyone else.


    mk
    www.highwayten.com

  6. #51
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    hey man, thanks for the kind words but i really think you are over estimating how hard it is to gain large amounts of speed in a short amount of time.

    it has to do with muscle memory, you see, if you practice speed for an hour a day. you wont advance that much. if 12 hours a day you will. the time you spent (in that day) would be worth more than 12 one hour days. because you'r training your brain everyday to perfect a motion. i think if you put in the time you'd get pretty far. the only problem most people do is give up to quik because they can't see the advancement....i tell you.....IF YOU PHYSICALLY WRITE DOWN HOW FAST YOU ARE TODAY....practice that exercise everyday(for an hour if thats all you can practice) then write down how fast you are in a month.....do this for a few months....and you will wonder why you said i have 'natural' talent....cause i dont!

    don't try it, DO IT,MAKE IT HAPPEN.

  7. #52
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    ok. here is me attempting that powertab. i think i got 250 for about 30 seconds there. i don't think my mic wants to really sample that speed but you can tell it is going at that speed. this is another beutiful etude, i have copyright . don't steal my idea

    i'd also like to point out that i have been a drummer for many years and play in that death metal 'blast beats at 200bpm' style. i play Nile, The Berzerker etc. so my right hand wrist is built up quite alot (actually both hands and feet have to be equal because when you blast you will only go as fast as your weakest limb), i don't think it's really made much of a difference though but maybe it did
    Attached Files Attached Files

  8. #53
    Hacked Account widdly widdly's Avatar
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    There is an exercise in Rock Guitar Secrets by Peter Fischer that I found very useful for developing speed. It's called the spider and involves playing 4 notes per string chromatics but not removing the each finger from the last string until you are ready to fret that note on the next string.

    --------------------------------------1234
    ---------------------------------1234-------
    --------------------------1234-----------
    --------------------1234------------------
    --------1 2 3 4-----------------------
    1234--^ ^ L and so on...
    ...........| L Now move the second finger from E str to A.
    ...........Move the first finger from the E string to the A string

    And descending as..

    1234-------------------------------
    -----1234-------------------------
    -----------1234-------------------
    -----------------1234-------------
    -----------------------1234-------
    -----------------------------1234--

    This exercise makes a good warm up and helps remove any unessecary finger movement in the left hand.

    For syncronization between both hands I find using open string exercises like the following usefull....

    12 0 0 0 10 0 0 0 8 0 0 0 7 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 2 0 0 0

    When playing this exercise it is easy to hear if the hands are out of sync and it has a strong pulse on the beat to help your timing.
    ________
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    Last edited by widdly widdly; 04-11-2011 at 06:51 AM.

  9. #54
    Registered User ashc's Avatar
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    I looked at arpetudes speedm builder.ptb out of interest (I'm not a speed freak). This can obviously be played fast because the left hand element is miminal. I reckon (and I will give it a go) I could get this to approach to my right hand limit of about 150bpm on a good day. I think I would come in around 130bpm without a lot of strife and I don't have the monomania for an exercise like that.

    But, anyway I hope this isn't the famous JP chromatic exercise that people use to say how quick they can play (surely not!) - because I think even I could eventually play this pretty fast. My issue is that the left hand part fingering is just 1-2-3-4 over and over and that to me is OK for raw speed but isnt a very good synchronisation test. I think you need LH fingers going both ways to test your sync. Changing it to: | 1-2-3-4 | 4-3-2-1 | x lots, would make it much harder and (for me) start to test synch a lot more.

    After that position shifting. Now you start to have an exercise.

    After that string crossing, like someone posted above but e.g. change to 4-3-2-1 fingering on the way down and then up a fret repeat etc. all the way up the neck. Then when you can do that at 200 bpm you can say you can play chromatics at 200 bpm

  10. #55
    Hacked Account widdly widdly's Avatar
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    The Jp exercies is.....

    ---------------------------------------3456--------
    ---------------------------------3456-------------
    ---------------1234 5432 3456 -------------------
    ----------1234-----------------------------------
    -----1234---------------------------------------
    1234------------------------------------------

    7654-------------------------------------------
    ------7654-------------------------------------
    ------------7654------------------------------
    -----------------7654 3456 5432-------------
    ------------------------------------5432 1

    ...and your are right, the hard part is the position shifts.


    There is also the famous satriani/vai chromatic exercise too, which is harder for the left hand. it's something like...

    ------------------------------2341-
    ------------------------1234-------
    ------------------4123-------------
    ------------3412-------------------
    ------2341-------------------------
    1234-------------------------------

    -4532---------------------------------
    ------ 5234----------------------------
    -------------2345-------------------
    -------------------3452-------------
    -------------------------4523---------
    ---------------------------------5234-

    etc.. up the neck

    You can do all sorts of variations that will develop your technique in more musical ways like playing rythnmic variations using triplets but keeping 4 notes per string or alternating between triplets and 16th notes. Frank gamble does a really tough one were he plays groups of 5 16th notes, where the 5th note is a rest. This gives you a real rythmic challenge and probaly a lot more usefull to your playing than buzz saw on a single string at 300bpm
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    Last edited by widdly widdly; 04-11-2011 at 06:52 AM.

  11. #56
    Jazz Apprentice Factor's Avatar
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    I second that sentiment.

    I would rather (if I had the time) practice melodic patterns than chromatics. Slonimsky anyone? :P Melodic patterns and sequences are what I practice with my scales.

    I started off with chromatics though, but the lack of musicality in them makes my motivation plummet. I just haven't the drive to practice that all day.

  12. #57
    Modbod UKRuss's Avatar
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    I third that Factor.

    I found it hard to see the benefit.

  13. #58
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    remember UKRuss and Factor,


    there is no right or wrong way to approach learning the guitar, they are many different styles of music where diffreent things have to be developed at different levels. in the aspect of speed, you can develop picking speed via playing yngwie malmsteen solos and develop alt. picking speed using his musical 'runs', you can learn to sweep by playing a sweep sequence from one of his songs. alternatively you can develop picking speed via chromatics and when you come to learn the yngwie solo you would not have to worry about your picking speed, simply a case of learning the notes....p.s. learning yngwie songs takes along time, even if you have developed the speed. i have develpoed the speed but can't really play a full yngwie masterpiece like 'far beyond the sun'. but i know that if i started working on that song at the start of the year (instead of working on this other song) i may have it down by now.

  14. #59
    Jazz Apprentice Factor's Avatar
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    I'm not saying my method's right and your's wrong. I merely said that _I_ can't practice chromatics that much without getting bored.

    On another point though, don't you think that pulling off 16'th chromatics at 150 bpm and 4 string alternate picked arpeggioes, is two completely different operations? Which are you more likely to use in composing/improvising/soloing?

    In my opinion, chromatics are excellent for developing right hand (picking hand) accuracy and speed, but tends little to the left hand and fingering issues which you are more likely to encounter during playing a Malmsteen piece.

  15. #60
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    Factor speaks for us both.

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