Welcome!
Just a few a ground rules first...

Promotion, advertising and link building is not permitted.

If you are keen to learn, get to grips with something with the willing help of one of the net's original musician forums
or possess a genuine willingness to contribute knowledge - you've come to the right place!

Register >

- Close -
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 23 of 23

Thread: when to use 7th chords

  1. #16
    I like music.
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    316
    Musical taste comes from experience with pleasing your own ear and the ears of others.

    I just suggested that because I think its a more bottoms up approach to learning rathen than a top down. You need a basic foundation in auditory examples in this category to feel comfortable expanding outward I've found in my experience. I've discovered this from a top down sort of view and I have been wishing I discovered it in a way that it wasn't such a huge block of information (harmony).
    Hard luck and trouble...

  2. #17
    Latin Wedding Band Los Boleros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Posts
    1,762
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarLausing
    Like so much else, theres is only one thing to do. Practice.
    There's one more thing you could do as well, that is learn. Practicing with some rules is better than practicing random mechanics. When it comes down to it, we will be judged by our choices and not by our speed or accuracy. Rules are made to be broken but a dissipline student uses them to train the brain to be more disipline. When I was studying counterpoint, my first thought was why all the rules. Ten years later I saw the light. Those weren't really rules after all, but merely observasions of what happens naturally when music is played well.
    Hidden Content
    Hidden Content
    *Check our Live Videos Page!

  3. #18
    IbreatheMusic Author
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    8
    Seventh chords have the "bite" major and minor chords do not have. In the jazz world, the old guys would turn all the chords into seventh chords (not with every song of course, but with certain ones). Take "I got rhythm".. C-Am-Dm-G , then try C7 - A7 - D7 - G7,... you might not like it.. but then agian? It's art.. try it.. if you like it.. keep it. If not.. try something else... I hope that helped. Peter Simms

  4. #19
    Resident Curmudgeon szulc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Jackson MS
    Posts
    2,223

    Cycle 4

    In general if your chords are moving in cycle 4 you can have the seventh tone of the first chord strengthen the resolution to the third of the second. Sometimes 3-7, or 5-1.
    For diatonic sevenths, the resoultions are stronger for V-I, ii-V, IV-vii and viio to iii. The iii-vi, I-IV and vi-ii are weaker because of the lack of half step movement.

    (vi-ii) ACEG,ACDF G to F, D to E (weaker resolution because it is a WS)
    (ii-V) DFAC,DFGB C to B
    (V-I) GBDF,GBCE F to E
    (I-IV) CEGB,CEFA B to A and G to F (weaker resolution because it is a WS)
    (IV-vii) FACE,FABD E to D and C to B. C-B is stronger here.
    (viio-iii) BDFA,BDEG F to E and A to G. F-E is stronger here.
    (iii-vi) EGBD,EGAC B-A and D-C (weaker resolution because it is a WS)

    In Dom7 cycles the resolution is stronger yet because the 3/7 (7/3) tritone moves down in half steps together.
    "Listen to the Spaces Between the sounds."
    Hidden Content

  5. #20
    Wordgirl: Jaded Musician jade_bodhi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Southern USA
    Posts
    475

    further 7th question

    Quote Originally Posted by Los Boleros
    Actually if you look at many songs that use sevenths and you may see a pattern. This is in the use of seventh chords to lead us into the next chord in the progression.
    I have a song in 4/4 time and the progression of the verse goes like this:

    E7, D7, C7, B7 (repeat 4X with 8 beats per chord)

    Can you give me some soloing guidelines to follow as I solo over this? I usually fool around in a bluesy E pentatonic (I think), but there are times during the changes when I feel I could shift to something more subtle.

    If it makes any difference, the song is rather up-tempo. thank you.

    Jade

    Edit: You can see the progression has a downward movement, and I play it moving down the neck, from the E7 on frets 5-7 to an open B7 on first and second frets. Would it be interesting to find a way for the solo to have an upward movement or should the solo mimic the downward movement of the chords?
    Last edited by jade_bodhi; 11-30-2005 at 05:01 AM. Reason: another point

  6. #21
    Resident Curmudgeon szulc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Jackson MS
    Posts
    2,223
    Are you sure this is really the chord progression you are using? and not Em (7) D7 C(M7) B7?
    If it really is a string of Dom7 chords E7 D7 C7 B7 the tonality is moving from A Major>G G Major > F Major then to E Major. These could be HM, or MM as well since the V7 is in all of these scales. In general you need to target chord tones from these 7th chords to make something happen make a guide tone chart of chord tones. Then try to make a line connecting them (EG#BD) > (DF#AC) > (CEGBb) > (BD#F#A) some ascending possibilities are E F# G A or G# A Bb B or B C E F# .
    "Listen to the Spaces Between the sounds."
    Hidden Content

  7. #22
    Wordgirl: Jaded Musician jade_bodhi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Southern USA
    Posts
    475
    Quote Originally Posted by szulc
    Are you sure this is really the chord progression you are using? and not Em (7) D7 C(M7) B7?
    If it really is a string of Dom7 chords E7 D7 C7 B7 the tonality is moving from A Major>G G Major > F Major then to E Major. These could be HM, or MM as well since the V7 is in all of these scales. In general you need to target chord tones from these 7th chords to make something happen make a guide tone chart of chord tones. Then try to make a line connecting them (EG#BD) > (DF#AC) > (CEGBb) > (BD#F#A) some ascending possibilities are E F# G A or G# A Bb B or B C E F# .
    Szulc:

    I think your question about the strangeness of the progression alludes to my thought that there is something more subtle happening in the progression than just soloing over it with an E pentatonic would suggest.

    I'm not sure I follow all your language in your explanation due to my unfamiliarity with musical language, but I think you are saying that the solo should hit the seventh note in each of the four chords when the chord is struck. Is that right?

    What do you mean by "chord tone?" It's different from the tonic note, I would assume. What's the difference, for example, between the respective chord tones of E major chord, an E7, and say Emaj7? Also, what is HM and MM? Are those scales?

    I appreciate your explanations.

    Jade

  8. #23
    Resident Curmudgeon szulc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Jackson MS
    Posts
    2,223
    I think your question about the strangeness of the progression alludes to my thought that there is something more subtle happening in the progression than just soloing over it with an E pentatonic would suggest.
    This is an understatment.

    I'm not sure I follow all your language in your explanation due to my unfamiliarity with musical language, but I think you are saying that the solo should hit the seventh note in each of the four chords when the chord is struck. Is that right?
    Not necessarily, I am saying the Chord Tones should be used as a framework to "hang" your improvisation on.

    What do you mean by "chord tone?" It's different from the tonic note, I would assume.
    Chord Tone - Any note belonging to a particular chord (including the tonic).

    What's the difference, for example, between the respective chord tones of E major chord, an E7, and say Emaj7?
    E7 - EG#BD; EM7 - EG#BD#.

    Also, what is HM and MM?
    HM - Harmonic Minor [1,2b3,4,5,b6,7]; MM - Melodic Minor [1,2,b3,4,5,6,7] all of the scale tone references are based on a Major Scale.

    Are those scales?
    Yes.
    "Listen to the Spaces Between the sounds."
    Hidden Content

Similar Threads

  1. Monoscale vs. Polyscale
    By Rakuku in forum Improvisation
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 05-30-2005, 06:04 AM
  2. 7th Chords by Guni
    By dennis in forum Getting Started
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-20-2004, 01:49 AM
  3. Chord question
    By joolsuk0575 in forum Music Theory
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 07-14-2004, 11:03 PM
  4. Question about 7th chords
    By AcousticJames in forum Music Theory
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-20-2004, 10:12 PM
  5. 7th Chords
    By szulc in forum Music Theory
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 01-14-2003, 08:48 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •