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Thread: Simplifying

  1. #1
    chewing bubble gum Chim_Chim's Avatar
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    Simplifying

    Hi all ,

    I'm trying to simplify my thinking with my approach to theory and came up with this real crazy idea,if you would all be so kind as to indulge me ?

    I'm trying to look at the most basic ideas by staying completely diatonic and using just power chords for easy analysis (for my own "easy" learning purposes here) god,please,humor me?

    What can you guys come up with staying within the parameters of: staying diatonic to the key of "C", and using just power chords to imply changes (diatonic only) ,and using modes or pentatonics for riffs,leads or melodies (strictly diatonic).If you could either tell me/give me ideas within these confines, or post musical examples,if you're feeling particularly generous?-(that would be "ultra"- cool). If you feel like playing along that would be fantastic !

    Of course all other input and advice is more than welcome.

    I hope this isn't a stupid idea or question and isn't maybe better suited for the beginners forum ? Maybe I chose the right screen name "Chim_Chim",huh? (<| theory for dummies,lol!) thankyou and god bless you all in advance...Chim_Chim

  2. #2
    chewing bubble gum Chim_Chim's Avatar
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    OOPS! THIS "IS" THE BEGINNER FORUM;SEE ? I NEED ALL THE HELP I CAN GET,LOL!

  3. #3
    Afro-Cuban Grunge-Pop Bongo Boy's Avatar
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    You may want to also take a look at

    http://www.power-chords.com

    The site seems to have a raftload of stuff--certainly enough to tell me that I don't know what the definition of a power chord is.
    Pulsing the System with Confirmed Nonsense.

  4. #4
    chewing bubble gum Chim_Chim's Avatar
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    Uhhh,yeah...I meant those root/5 thingies.I'm familiar with that site although I'm not sure what their take on power chords is.Looks like they're talking about regular Major and Minor and other chords to me.Maybe they're just trying to reference them to more standard albeit more "complex" chords?.What I was referring to was the regular old rock and roll power chords...

    thanks for the reply
    Some days I seem to do OK. Other days I feel like just shoving an M-80 right up my guitar's butt.

  5. #5
    Resident Curmudgeon szulc's Avatar
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    so what are you asking here?
    You have created a game where the rules are Play only natural notes and play over root and fifths? this is going to be easy except there will be no thirds to help give direction to the line. so is F B considered valid or does it need to be avoided?
    "Listen to the Spaces Between the sounds."
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  6. #6
    chewing bubble gum Chim_Chim's Avatar
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    Hi ,

    How long do you get to type a message before you're automatically logged out ?

    The reason I ask is last night I typed out a large follow up to my question that attempted to nail down what I was asking and then when I went to send it it said I had to log in etc. And then the same thing just happened again.I logged in typed my message in a short period of time and when I tried to send it it said I need to log in ?

    Anyway...

    I guess what I'm asking is how to go about changing modes or changing to relative diatonic modes if my song uses just power chords and remains in a single key (no modulations) ??

    Do songs that use only power chords do this much ?

    Like change to a relative mode within the key like the verse is in one mode and the chorus is in another,then maybe a bridge in another and the solo in another etc. ? (but all diatonic)

    I'm trying to come up with diatonic ideas.

    The thirds aren't there but the tonality can be implied by the root movement and mode selection.(Guess I kind of answered my own question here ?)

    Does anyone have any ideas on basic diatonic playing or any suggestions for maximizing diatonic ideas using power chords ?
    Some days I seem to do OK. Other days I feel like just shoving an M-80 right up my guitar's butt.

  7. #7
    i Breathe ... Admin Guni's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Chim_Chim
    How long do you get to type a message before you're automatically logged out ?
    Hi Chim_Chim,

    This should not happen. Try changing your preferences under 'My Settings' - 'Edit Options'. Set 'Browse forum with Cookies' to yes.

    Hope that solves this issue.

    Guni

  8. #8
    Resident Curmudgeon szulc's Avatar
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    Why this aversion to using major and minor chords?

    You can still do the same kind of thing here that you would do if you used actual triads but you will not have the luxury of triads to guide your improvisation. I think you would be better served to use major and minor chords. This would be better for your ear, and for forming good melody lines.
    "Listen to the Spaces Between the sounds."
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  9. #9
    chewing bubble gum Chim_Chim's Avatar
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    Hi ,

    I enabled the cookies Guni,thanks!

    Szulc,I'm asking what can be done,specifically within the confines of using power chords and remaining diatonic?

    This is "theory reduction" and simplification for my comprehension purposes only!

    Please humor me here
    Some days I seem to do OK. Other days I feel like just shoving an M-80 right up my guitar's butt.

  10. #10
    Afro-Cuban Grunge-Pop Bongo Boy's Avatar
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    When you mentioned C maj above, then emphasized diatonic later, I wonder what's going on. By diatonic do you mean scale tones only (regardless of scale), or are you equating it to 'no sharps or flats'? Another way of asking this: do you care what key you're in or did you really mean to restrict this to C major?

    I'm trying to understand what it is you have to work with. At this point, it SEEMS like you have:

    Mode 1: C Ionian major
    Mode 2: A Aeolian minor
    Chords: I-IV-V progressions in all varieties (classic 'rock' I guess)
    Solos: C maj and 1-b3-11-5-7 pentatonic (an option)
    Solos: A min and 1-9-3-5-13 pentatonic (an option)

    This restricts everything to both diatonic AND no accidentals, classic rock-type progressions, a major and minor key to ditz with, and some of that there modal action too.

    Is it practical to pound some ideas first, THEN go back and see what ideas sound like with only power chords? Is this helping or am I just exposing my complete ignorance needlessly?
    Last edited by Bongo Boy; 12-09-2002 at 10:17 PM.
    Pulsing the System with Confirmed Nonsense.

  11. #11
    chewing bubble gum Chim_Chim's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Obviously "diatonic" could refer to any key and that'd be fine.I did specifically request C for my benefit and ease of analysis.

    I'd like to hear what you all might suggest here.I feel that I might benefit from this somehow.I think this might help me on some basic level to hear your thoughts on what can be done using these parameters.

    Does this make atleast some sense atleast,I hope ?
    Some days I seem to do OK. Other days I feel like just shoving an M-80 right up my guitar's butt.

  12. #12
    chewing bubble gum Chim_Chim's Avatar
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    Better yet would be if you could explain theory to me in this way.Like how to change to relative diatonic modes and using only R5 chords to accompany.I'd even like to hear your personal theories on how to go about this.What's your theory ?
    Some days I seem to do OK. Other days I feel like just shoving an M-80 right up my guitar's butt.

  13. #13
    chewing bubble gum Chim_Chim's Avatar
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    By the way bongo_boy is on the right track here I think.

    Thankyou bongo_boy !
    Some days I seem to do OK. Other days I feel like just shoving an M-80 right up my guitar's butt.

  14. #14
    Afro-Cuban Grunge-Pop Bongo Boy's Avatar
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    I won't be able to help...I have no clue. In fact I've never heard the term 'relative diatonic mode' before--I don't know what that means. I could go on for pages about what I don't know!

    I THINK what you're really asking is, "How do I approach a composition problem using the following tools, or subject to the following constraints." What I mean by this is, it seems that the problem you're trying to address is how to get started building something, given a certain set of tools to work with.

    Now, this isn't an unusual problem. Often we have to iterate between tool selection and project selection--it happens all the time. The requirement is NOT for the final product so much as it is for the building of the final product. It's like high school shop class--no one NEEDS (or even wants) a hand-wound bipolar electric motor that has no power and sucks a battery dry in 10 minutes. The project is to understand the motor and tools used to build it.

    This is how I see your question--and I think you're asking the same questions a shop class instructor has to ask, "What could we build that would use these particular tools?" Your tools have something missing--that m3 or M3, for one thing. You have to know what that does to limit (or enable) the character of a composition--from I would suppose, several aspects.

    You may already know what those effects are. If so, then add in your knowledge of existing music that has limited harmonization (and what kind of music typically can do that), and finally, add in those aspects of a composition that ALL pleasing compositions have (the basic structure--AABA, AABC whatever).

    I can't help you with any of this--I'm a beginner with no answers regarding any of the stuff above. It's just the approach that, in my ignorance, I'd have to take. I KNOW there are great I-IV-V progressions in rock, for example--and I know the chords can be ever so simple.

    Having said that, when Pete plays the first few bars of Can't Explain, with sufficient intent and sufficient volume--well, I cry. So...it don't take much. Press on!!
    Pulsing the System with Confirmed Nonsense.

  15. #15
    Afro-Cuban Grunge-Pop Bongo Boy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Chim_Chim
    Better yet would be if you could explain theory to me in this way.
    Uhhh...I'm not trying to be modest here, but I think you probably already know more about it than I do. Can you nail down a question or two that's just a bit more 'targeted'? You'd agree it's a pretty big topic, eh?

    From time to time I'll ask one of those, "What color is best?" questions--I understand asking a good question can be tough. Don't take offense
    Pulsing the System with Confirmed Nonsense.

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