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Thread: pentatonic is basically dorian?

  1. #1
    Registered User fortymile's Avatar
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    pentatonic is basically dorian?

    i just noticed that pentatonic minor has the flat 3 and flat 7.

    those two notes are what makes dorian dorian.

    so pentatonic minor is basically dorian-flavored?
    "All bad poetry is sincere" -- Oscar Wilde

  2. #2
    Registered User fortymile's Avatar
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    and the blues scale too?

    these three scales are basically cousins big time, arent they?

    this is causing some confusion to me right now. because how could you ever define something? maybe some guy spends 99 percent in pentatonic minor but then throws in the minor third and then the natural SECOND of the major scale.

    you could say he's playing in pentatonic, adding a few extra notes here and there. but you could also say he's playing in dorian but just not using all the notes available to him.

    right?
    "All bad poetry is sincere" -- Oscar Wilde

  3. #3
    IbreatheMusic Author ChrisJ's Avatar
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    What makes dorian dorian is its major 6th. The minor pentatonic scale can be found in all three of the minor modes: aolian, dorian and phrygian.
    -CJ

  4. #4
    Registered User fortymile's Avatar
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    ahhh, i see. thank you.

    then the phyrg note would be the flat 2

    and the aolian the flat 6
    Last edited by fortymile; 11-13-2004 at 09:04 AM.
    "All bad poetry is sincere" -- Oscar Wilde

  5. #5
    ,.¤oOo¤., theox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fortymile
    ahhh, i see. thank you.

    then the phyrg note would be the flat 2

    and the aolian the flat 6
    Exactly!

  6. #6
    Latin Wedding Band Los Boleros's Avatar
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    Since a pentatonic leaves out two of the natural notes, I would probably not refer to any modes while in pentatonic. It would just be incomplete.
    i just noticed that pentatonic minor has the flat 3 and flat 7.
    Remember too that pentatonic applies to major as well as minor. Take that A minor pentatonic down three frets and you have A major pentatonic.
    Last edited by Los Boleros; 11-13-2004 at 05:00 PM.
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  7. #7
    Registered User fortymile's Avatar
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    i thought of that, whether its worth it to even think of pentatonics as being modal. if i were correct in the first place (which im not) that dorian's two signature notes were the flat 3 and flat 7...then why wouldn't you call the pentatonic just a foreshortened mode? after all, you would be hanging on and accenting those two "dorian" notes constantly. the point could then naturally be made you were just using a circumscribed dorian scale. i.e. playing within that scale but just not using some of it. the important thing is that the unmistakable dorian flavor would be coming through.

    its like if you were playing a two-note solo: c and c# over a c minor chord. there would be no mistake that you were in phrygian even though your entire solo is made of two notes.

    of course, that would have been only if i had been right about flat 3 and flat 7 being the dorian notes. and im not right about that. so the point is moot.
    "All bad poetry is sincere" -- Oscar Wilde

  8. #8
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    Could you not make the minor pentatonic a "pseudo" minor mode just by adding a note or two? Like adding the C# in the Eminor pent?
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  9. #9
    Detroit VidKid's Avatar
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    When I want to bend notes and play bluesy, I think pents. If I want to sound more jazzy, I'll think Dorian which has the two other added notes to work with: 6th and 9th. I'll even start on those 2 notes just make my next phrase sound differnt than a previous pent/blusey passage which will often start on the root, 3rd or b7. Both have unique characteristics and compliment each other.

    VK

  10. #10
    Registered User fortymile's Avatar
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    thats what i'm getting at, fader. my whole rationale for learning the pentatonics this year is that i already know the modes well enough to where if i want to delve into them it will be a simple matter of throwing extra notes into my pentatonics for effect.
    "All bad poetry is sincere" -- Oscar Wilde

  11. #11
    IbreatheMusic Author ChrisJ's Avatar
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    I'll throw something out here. If you really want a dorian sound using a minor pentatonic scale, try this:

    Over a min6 or min13th chord play a minor pentatonic scale a whole step up. Ex. Dmin6 = Eminor pentatonic. This will give you all the dorian notes: 9, 4, 5, 13, 1. As you can see, it works best for the big minor chords, min13th with the added 9th and/or 11th.

    -CJ

  12. #12
    IbreatheMusic Author Bizarro's Avatar
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    ChrisJ, did you read that in the Howard Roberts Guitar Compendium books? He goes through all that stuff in great detail. I know Jay and he taught me about that (15 years ago when I was taking lessons from him! Can it really be that long ago? )
    -Bizarro
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  13. #13
    IbreatheMusic Author ChrisJ's Avatar
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    Actually, Scott Henderson taught me the pentatonic tricks. Since Scott and Howard Roberts where both MI instructors, you have to wonder who taught who?
    -CJ

  14. #14
    Registered User fortymile's Avatar
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    oh but i never bring algebra into music.

    that whole recontextualizing the major scale thing is what confused me about modes for 2 years. i prefer altering scale steps on the fly. it's just how i do things.
    "All bad poetry is sincere" -- Oscar Wilde

  15. #15
    Latin Wedding Band Los Boleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bizarro
    ChrisJ, did you read that in the Howard Roberts Guitar Compendium books? He goes through all that stuff in great detail. I know Jay and he taught me about that (15 years ago when I was taking lessons from him! Can it really be that long ago? )
    *Off topic*
    Wow, You had one great teacher! I read all his articles when I was a kid.
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