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Thread: technique, speed etc.

  1. #61
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    Wild_Child made some very good points, and to prevent any confusion I think I should clarify what was said earlier.

    1) I *KNOW* there are the basic physical limitations that can restrict moving faster than a certain point - that's not what I was arguing. Besides, by the time you have reached the point at which it is physically impossible to move faster, the equipment is completely unable to respond to the number of notes that would be flying out. Besides, you would be unable to hear it, so there's no point anyway. What I was saying before, and what I will continue to say, is that WITHIN REALISTIC BOUNDARIES anyone can play as fast as they deem necessary. I guess some people view the WITHIN REALISTIC BOUNDARIES section of that statement in the same way idiotic 12 year olds view the DO NOT ATTEMPT on Jackass.

    2) I completely agree that there's dubious value to "speed for the sake of speed". Nowhere have I advocated, nor do I plan to advocate, the use of speed just to play speed. But I *do* think that technique must be practiced to a point where there is no distance between your fingers and your mind. Some people don't think at 16 notes per second. SRV, Zappa, Hendrix, Gilmour, Wes Montgomery, etc. all make (or made, for the less fortunate among them) incredible music, and they didn't play more notes in a second than they could count fingers on their hands. I have to admit that a lot of what I hear in my head is hard to play, and for that reason I practice a great deal to be able to play it. That makes me no better or worse than the other guys - the end result is what matters, not the means to attain it. Is BB King necessarily better than John Petrucci? One is quite obviously faster, but that's irrelevant. They both put their beings into their music, and they both are good at what they do. Some say they can't hear emotion in fast playing, and I sincerely feel sorry for them, because to me JP is one of the most touching instrumentalists out there. But playing with or without speed is not what makes you play more or less personally, more or less emotionally, better or worse, playing well is what makes that difference. If playing with speed and playing with feel *was* indeed inversely proportional (as many contend), then the guy playing one note per century would be king. That's not the case. Speed isn't the end, it's the means. Should you play to the extent that your vision requires? Definitely. Will playing fast or slow tell more about what you mean with your playing than your actual playing will? Definitely not. Should you play fast? That depends. Does your heart feel fast?

    P.S. - Shinkyo00, they *have* made genetically engineered food, but that doesn't mean it tastes good. Personally, I wouldn't eat it with fake teeth on a twenty foot pole.

    Rock On,
    The Jeffinator

  2. #62
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    my point is : do not use science to argue about something totally irrelevant to it

    making music's not a freakin science, it is an art and therefore there are no rules set, its all about expression

  3. #63
    <´¯)(¯`»ANDREA«´¯)(¯`>
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    @shinkyo00

    you say everything and the contrary in 2 posts space. cool. and coherent, but anyway, i might suggest my 20+ years experience professors over here to change the subject of their studies just for you: a liquid cooled wrist implant for your new 10,000 rpm micro engine. I might get the nobel prize for that.

    As for speed doesn't have anything to do with taste and feeling, I agree with the people over here saying that speed is just a mean to express something, and when it's used in the right way you achieve the desired results (i.e. John Petrucci).
    <´¯)(¯`¤._)(¯`»ANDREA«´¯)(_.¤´¯)(¯`>
    "...The answer to your question is: welcome to tomorrow..."

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrea79
    @shinkyo00

    you say everything and the contrary in 2 posts space. cool. and coherent, but anyway, i might suggest my 20+ years experience professors over here to change the subject of their studies just for you: a liquid cooled wrist implant for your new 10,000 rpm micro engine. I might get the nobel prize for that.

    As for speed doesn't have anything to do with taste and feeling, I agree with the people over here saying that speed is just a mean to express something, and when it's used in the right way you achieve the desired results (i.e. John Petrucci).
    second post does not rule out the possibility of the science mentioned in first post

    and your implant might actually get the nobel prize if it actually contributed to something important instead of just being a 10000 rpm micro engine......otherwise the nobel prize would just be meaningless

  5. #65
    FUBAR'd Metalliska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Relaxation
    I totally disagree. Everybody could become better (If i can, then you can). Before, 120 was my limit. Now, I raised it to 16th notes at 160 Bpm. Don't wanna sound arrogant but I know I can do more.

    Bottom line, practice will definitely make you better. There are no limits of what we can do.
    Well said that puts it perfectly into perspective. It will take some people alot longer than others but at the end of the day if one person can do, assuming you've got the same facilities, two good functioning hands, then you can do it. I can play pretty fast, I don't use metronome so I couldn't give you a figure but I can keep up with the master of puppets second solo, I just practiced everyday when i was still in school, you get there eventually, it's a question of time and patience. Personally I'd throw away the metronome, it's only gonna dishearten you when you're learning, just take it at your own pace, it won't help to come on here and find out most people can out do you by so many BPM, work at your own pace, if yor happy and think you pretty speedy and can play all the things you want to then that's all you need, it really is about playing the music you like, not trying compete with other players on who's motor neurone reactions are quickest.
    Matty

    "People say crazy things during sex, one time I called this chick mom!"
    Randal, Clerks.

  6. #66
    iBreatheMusic Modthor phantom's Avatar
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    Personally I'd throw away the metronome, it's only gonna dishearten you when you're learning, just take it at your own pace, it won't help to come on here and find out most people can out do you by so many BPM
    yes and no i'd say. the metronome is not only there to keep track of a daily bpm status and to have a "official" speed to compair to others, but a metronome will help your timing as well and that is very essential for sounding good.

  7. #67
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    Phantom- I don't play much with a metronome, though for about a month I did with chromatics. I occasionly use it, but not for speed development. I would prefer to develop a sense of time, and a tight rhythm by listening and playing along with a beat if you understand what I mean. A metronome isn't necessary, I see how it helps. It just doesnt happen to be my thing. Guthrie Govan didn't use it, so why should I

    P.S Guitar isn't a competition, no need to compare speed (unless you think your faster then everyone. In that case check out Paul Gilbert

    Dave

  8. #68
    iBreatheMusic Modthor phantom's Avatar
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    Guthrie Govan didn't use it, so why should I
    well.. that's a good reason .

    P.S Guitar isn't a competition, no need to compare speed (unless you think your faster then everyone. In that case check out Paul Gilbert
    oh hell yeah i know dave111. i just mentioned it because metalliska was talking about a metronome disheartening you cause you speed discussions can come up with "this and that guy is playing with this and that bpm speed". honestly i give as you a flying f*ck about bpm as long as i can play what i want to.

    i wanted to "defend" the metronome as a timekeeper and not as a speed machine. playing with loops and beats is obviously more fun and is building a good sense of rhythm probably even better.

  9. #69
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    I think one of the main reasons I dislike the metronome is actually the noise it makes. It would be much cooler if it made a pinch harmonic on the beat or something.

    Off-Topic, Have you got any clips of your playing? You seem to know alot, and I'm gonna assume your a great player, although probably to modest to admit it.

    Dave

    EDIT: I remembered you posting something in the Show and Tell forum. I found two tunes. Quick Review?

    I love the atmosphere you create. You obviously have chops but use them when needed only. I think you and Koala could get some interesting stuff going (I felt similarities between your music) over the internet or something. The recording quality is awesome, and so is the tone. You mentioned you have a fender hm strat. Is that H S S (H in bridge?) I'm thinking about making my strat H S H ( So i can use it for jazz, cant afford a hollowbody at the moment ) Quick opinion if this is worth it/it would sound good.

    P.S (Sorry for the thread hijack, and I this post was borderlining the rules, so I won't be that annoyed if you delete it

    Dave
    Last edited by dave111; 11-09-2004 at 01:35 PM.

  10. #70
    iBreatheMusic Modthor phantom's Avatar
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    Off-Topic, Have you got any clips of your playing? You seem to know alot, and I'm gonna assume your a great player, although probably to modest to admit it.
    thanks dave111!

    quiet a while ago i postet two threads with clips of my stuff:

    Ghosts and

    cold sweat

    would be nice to hear your comments as well !

    for columns i did for chops from hell go here:
    chops from hell sven 1
    chops from hell sven 2
    chops from hell sven 3

    thanks again

    EDIT: ooops crossposted.....

  11. #71
    iBreatheMusic Modthor phantom's Avatar
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    i'm going to p.m. ya so that we don't get nuked for geartalking and thread hijacking...

    thanks anyway!

  12. #72
    Registered User ReinierK's Avatar
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    I don't get the whol "I wanna be fast" thing...
    16th notes at 200bpm will be 200/60*16/4=13.3 picks per second. That's pretty ridiculously fast... I personally don't like it, because you get a string of notes which are hard to sepperate... I like the more 'outstanding' guitar pieces...

    For solo's speed is nice, but I don't think you have to be able to set a worldrecord of picks/second to play a good or even fast solo...

  13. #73
    I, Galactus oRg's Avatar
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    You bring up a very good point ReinierK. Most guitarists will come to a point in their guitar career where they have to decide when they've gotten fast enough or not. Being able to play 16th notes at 300 bpm like Francesco Fareri would be nice but for me it is overkill for what I would want to do it for. Once I reach a certain speed that I'm comfortable with then I will start working on complexity and getting more complex licks up to that speed. Right now I can pretty much play at about 200 bpm, 220 on a good day and already I feel I'm pretty much done with speed for now...now onto complex runs and perfecting my sweeping technique.
    v2sw3CUhw6ln3pr6OFck3ma9u6Lw3Xm6l6Ui2Ne5t5TSFDAb8T DOen7g6RZATHCMHPa21s6MSr53Dp3hackerkey

  14. #74
    Shred Apprentice Bande's Avatar
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    Has anyone of you read Jamey Andreas's article about using little strentgh?

    Well, that works, man. I triedm this out, and it helped a lot.
    I learnt Paganini's 16 from the article of Mike Campese, and in 2 days I could play it at a tempo of 240. I never ever had played anything that fast. But I could do it. In fact, I never ever had any problem with speed, and I don't have really good fingers. They're very thick, but I can play anything. Almost

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bande
    Has anyone of you read Jamey Andreas's article about using little strentgh?

    Well, that works, man. I triedm this out, and it helped a lot.
    I learnt Paganini's 16 from the article of Mike Campese, and in 2 days I could play it at a tempo of 240. I never ever had played anything that fast. But I could do it. In fact, I never ever had any problem with speed, and I don't have really good fingers. They're very thick, but I can play anything. Almost
    Are you talking about Paganini Caprice #16, Part 2
    by Mike Campese (13 Oct 04)

    Hmm......in the fast version of the clips in his article

    http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article...2/pag2fast.mp3

    Mike plays it at about 130, and you're able to do it at 240????
    Would like to hear that. Why don't you record it and post the clip here in this forum?

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