Welcome!
Just a few a ground rules first...

Promotion, advertising and link building is not permitted.

If you are keen to learn, get to grips with something with the willing help of one of the net's original musician forums
or possess a genuine willingness to contribute knowledge - you've come to the right place!

Register >

- Close -
Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 106

Thread: technique, speed etc.

  1. #46
    Registered User Santuzzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Amsterdam, The Netherlands
    Posts
    248
    Hey guys, originally this thread was something like : "Can everybody (if they want to) learn to play wicked fast?" ....

    Let's change it into "can everybody (if they want to - I guess they sure do) learn to play awesome grooves and great melodies?"

    How about that ?!

    Just joking, but anyway, some really interesting things were said in this thread !

    Peace
    Lars

  2. #47
    Headbang Master Slaindude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Somewhere around nothing.
    Posts
    270
    I believe everybody can play everything they want to. The only thing that changes and that make people lose thrust in theirselves is the fact that each person has his own road to take. You need to walk down that path alone, cause not everyone has been born with the same capacities. You need to find your way through and some others may find it before you and that doesnt mean he's better than you, maybe he was just lucky, or born with capacities you don't have. But nothing can say in advance which of the two players will be the best in the end. It is possible that one guy encounters a barrier in his playing, or a big boost of accuracy and speed, you never know. But one thing we know is that if you give up, then the path will give up on you too and you'll encounter more and more barriers.
    Last edited by Slaindude; 07-14-2004 at 11:16 AM.

  3. #48
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    455
    Quote Originally Posted by Priest Becker
    Genetics have been wrong before look at jason becker his genetics gave him a disese and he overcame it and its terminal. Genetics you might not be able to break out of but you can certinly bend them alot. People look at limits too much and belive in science too much when they dont relize the world around them can be shaped how ever they feel it should if they wanted it to. You cant change sand but you can "bend" it in a sense into glass. In the same way you can increase your speed to what ever you want to (of course thier is a limit but everyone can reach the same limit) Its like saying that some people cant pass a certin class in school because thier genetics wont let them. It's because people tell them that and they belive that. The power of the mind is much more powerful than statistics. People break these statistics day after day. To say thier ARE indeed limits is to give up. Its just a cheep most used excuse in the world. People who belive their are limits are probley some of the weekest people in the world when it comes to areas such as this because its the same as giving up or being a quiter. No offense to anyone not everyone WANTS to be fast and in that sense your not realy a quiter if you dont want to be and just stay at what ever speed you like but those of you who want to go faster and people tell you you cant cause of genetics and you stop trying then your a quiter.
    I don't know if I would say that Jason Becker has overcome his disease. Sadly, I don't think that his quality of life is that great.

    As for genetics, I'm not an expert in human physiology, but I don't think I have to be to say that there are certain activities that a given person may have a facility for. I don't think that, however hard I try, I'll ever be able to run as fast as Carl Lewis, play tennis like Pete Sampres, or lift as much weight as Scott Mendelson. I don't think that makes me a quitter - there is an element of realism in recognizing your limitations and playing to your strengths which applies to the physical aspects of guitar playing as much as any other physical activity. Kind of like the way some people can spell words correctly, and others apparently can't.
    Last edited by debaser; 07-14-2004 at 01:01 PM.

  4. #49
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    6
    To bring another aspect from my own experience into the discussion, I think that some dedication to speed training is always worthwile. In my early years, I never practised speed, I didn't even practise with a metronome, I concentrated on trying to play nice melodies, not on acquiring technical skills. I started playing again recently after a long, long break and I used the great education material provided here and tried to build up some speed practising things like the PG lick. Though I'm still not really fast (and perhaps will never be) this kind of training has improved my skills and somehow I feel much more in control of what I do on the fretboard.

  5. #50
    In Love With Fusion Priest Becker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Englewood Florida
    Posts
    215
    Quote Originally Posted by debaser
    I don't know if I would say that Jason Becker has overcome his disease. Sadly, I don't think that his quality of life is that great.

    As for genetics, I'm not an expert in human physiology, but I don't think I have to be to say that there are certain activities that a given person may have a facility for. I don't think that, however hard I try, I'll ever be able to run as fast as Carl Lewis, play tennis like Pete Sampres, or lift as much weight as Scott Mendelson. I don't think that makes me a quitter - there is an element of realism in recognizing your limitations and playing to your strengths which applies to the physical aspects of guitar playing as much as any other physical activity. Kind of like the way some people can spell words correctly, and others apparently can't.
    This is not what i ment to say nor was it what i said. I said that if you wanted to badly enough (and worked hard at it) you can achive it no matter what someone tells you. If you wanted to you could run as fast or lift as much weight but by simply saying you cant you never will be able.

    And by becker overcoming the illness i think he has because he has learned to live like that and dosent realy care too much to the point to where hes depressed. Its not like he wants to kill him self. Hes actualy very happy and is making good progress in recovering although very slow and probley wont recover all the way.
    Instrumental.

  6. #51
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    172
    A certain person may never be able to play as fast as someone else, but if the slower person puts as much time and effort into it as the faster person, and has as much ambition to achieve the goal as the faster person, and analyzes their playing to overcome their specific weaknesses with as much skill as the faster person, then I would think that the differences would be rather negligible. I mean, if somebody can play at 215 bpm, but all you're able to achieve is 205, what does it matter? It's not a sporting event. The artistic merits of the musical compositions written and performed by the two guitarists would far outweigh the 10 bpm difference in speed.

  7. #52
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    262
    I can't put this post off any longer. Speed and control are very important issues to me, for a number of reasons, and to see people talking about genetic and physiological limitations hits me as somewhat odd.

    Not to mean any disrespect, I have to completely and totally disagree with some things that have been said earlier. I don't think there is a 'limit' as to what a person can physically play. I mean, there will be a point where matter cannot move at a faster rate without an exponential increase in energy (like the theoretical science we slept through in physics) but (keep in mind that you should stay realistic in this thread - you guys all know what I'm talking about) there were points at which the thought of a round earth, an 8 minute mile, and a hydrogen bomb were all considered impossible. Steve Vai even said that he thought parts of Fire Strings were physically impossible to play. Noone could even think of these things happening, but guess what - they happened. So, not counting instances where a person's fingers are required to change phase in order to move faster, or stretching the hand entirely around a picnic table, there are no real limitations for everyone. Some will have an easier time getting speed - myself included, something which I am extremely grateful for, even though that does not make me any better or worse than the next guy - but anyone can do just about anything. To sum it up, I think anyone can play as fast as they want to so long as they do things right and have the drive. So there.

    I agree with whoever said that although Vai, JP, Satch, and YJM all play fast, but they play differently, so even though they have dexterity (and they use it frequently) because they still are able to sound like themselves there is room for all of them. I don't think that any guitar playing makes a song better or worse just by its presence - it can really set the pace of a song (see Liquid Tension Experiment's "Paradigm Shift") or it can really blow the entire song (see anything by Vinnie Vincent Invasion), but there is no "Extreme Guitar Solo Button" that producers push that instantly makes songs better - as has been said thousands of times, it's how you use it. As for asdf saying that there are tons of fast guitarists out there, I agree, but let it be said that playing fast and playing slow are not by default any better or worse than each other. Saying that all new shredders are obsolete because there are already other fast guys out there is essentially saying "We don't need any more painters using blue, because everyone else has already used it". Same goes for any other kind of guitarist. Different speeds and techniques are different colors and textures, and although black and white gets somewhat dull after a while, noone wants to see a big wall of red.

    Finally, I heard someone saying that John Petrucci could only play a passage at 216bpm on his instructional video. This is a bit off topic, granted, but in defense of JP, on the Rock Discipline video where he plays the chromatic exercise in excess of 200bpm, I'm pretty sure that he *could* have played faster, and absolutely positive that he's faster right now - I think that in order not to discourage anyone he stopped there. I know it's irrelevant to most, but I just had to say that. Noone should feel that because he couldn't play at 216 on the video that it'll be impossible for them, or that it's necessarily the end of your physical practicing phase. The time at which your technique is good enough is your choice - you're fast enough when what you hear in your head and what you want to play comes out the way you want people to hear it.

    Rock On (at any speed),
    The Jeffinator

  8. #53
    IbreatheMusic Author Bizarro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    1,846
    Great info Jeff!
    -Bizarro
    Google is your friend Hidden Content

  9. #54
    <´¯)(¯`»ANDREA«´¯)(¯`>
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Venice nearby
    Posts
    45
    think it like you want... if body didn't have limits, i wouldn't take planes to go around the world, but simply swing my arms up and down VERY fast. Get a good book of physiology and take a reading about neural transmission. bye
    <´¯)(¯`¤._)(¯`»ANDREA«´¯)(_.¤´¯)(¯`>
    "...The answer to your question is: welcome to tomorrow..."

  10. #55
    fan of the G string curiousgeorge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Britney's basement
    Posts
    1,072
    Referring to that Rock Discipline video...I have it and the only reason he flubbed it was to prove his point about going as fast as you can to make the original tempo of the piece seem manageable. I have seen him go well beyond the 216 bpm mark.....

  11. #56
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    switzerland
    Posts
    16
    Quote Originally Posted by TheJeffinator
    I mean, there will be a point where matter cannot move at a faster rate without an exponential increase in energy (like the theoretical science we slept through in physics) but (keep in mind that you should stay realistic in this thread - you guys all know what I'm talking about) there were points at which the thought of a round earth, an 8 minute mile, and a hydrogen bomb were all considered impossible.
    Compare AP speed to a hydrogen bomb? C'mon man.

    If there were no limits, then I wonder about all those countless "chops form ....", "speed ........." sites/methods for guitar and why people are spending their money for that ****.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJeffinator
    Finally, I heard someone saying that John Petrucci could only play a passage at 216bpm on his instructional video. This is a bit off topic, granted, but in defense of JP, on the Rock Discipline video where he plays the chromatic exercise in excess of 200bpm, I'm pretty sure that he *could* have played faster, and absolutely positive that he's faster right now - I think that in order not to discourage anyone he stopped there.
    I think I'll write to J. Petrucci why he's not playing that famous chromatic exercise effortlessly at 450 or 500 bpm in his video (as there's no physical limit, that shouldn't be a problem after all).

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJeffinator
    playing fast and playing slow are not by default any better or worse than each other
    Completely agree on this one.

  12. #57
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    262
    Andrea79, I know there *are* limits, but what I was saying was that apart from trying to play a billion notes per second anything *realistic* can be played with enough practice.

    By the way, let me know if flapping your arms works - I really need some way to get to Houston and back in a reasonable amount of time if I'm ever going to get lessons from Rusty Cooley (San Antonio->Houston is about 280 miles, and I need to get better!)

    Rock On (at any speed you want, to hell with physiology)
    The Jeffinator

  13. #58
    <´¯)(¯`»ANDREA«´¯)(¯`>
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Venice nearby
    Posts
    45
    nah... I think that flapping your wallet would be a faster way to get there

    Rock on you too.
    <´¯)(¯`¤._)(¯`»ANDREA«´¯)(_.¤´¯)(¯`>
    "...The answer to your question is: welcome to tomorrow..."

  14. #59
    Laiho's heir guitarist wild_child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    515
    according to physiology, a bumblebee cannot fly.

    philosophy aside, i think we all have our personal limit on how fast we will be able to pick eventually, but i think every able-bodied person has the potential to pick "fast."
    Those most elite of the fast pickers are those who had the highest potential, and by some chance when they were young decided to pick up the guitar and begin working on just that. Granted, nobody can pick like lightning from the start, but surely some have higher cut-off points than others.
    Just like sprinters in the olympics are the fastest runners in the world, if we were all capable of that, we'd all be training day in, day out and giving it a shot.

    But the question is, is it neccissary? is there a point at which it no longer becomes relevant, because it is hardly applicable within a musical context. speed for the sake of speed?

    indeed, it is worthwhile practacing picking techniques, it will allow you to play things that you could not previously play, perhaps you may even find your absolute physical limit. Its a question of using your practice time like a balanced diet, spend some time on other things too otherwise you'll be full of carbohydrate, but weak cause you got no protein, so to speak

    live a healthy musical lifestyle, and make healthy music
    "Remember, it's all good, everything goes and there ain't no damned rules or boundaries. So get off! Tear it a fresh ***, tear it hard, rip gaping holes in it! Make tracks, leave marks!

    "forever stronger than all" - Dimebag Darrell

  15. #60
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    102
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrea79
    think it like you want... if body didn't have limits, i wouldn't take planes to go around the world, but simply swing my arms up and down VERY fast. Get a good book of physiology and take a reading about neural transmission. bye
    this argument is irrelevant! and EXTREMELY childish too

    think, there are laws of physics that do not allow for your 'swinging of arms' to happen

    in contrast, when you are picking, physics do not play that big a role in it

    also, in the future theres always wacked scientists screwing around with genetics and who knows one of those dudes might change the structure of someone's muscles to accomodate for more speed etcetc

    after all theres always been genetically engineered food and animals

Similar Threads

  1. Picking using floating hand technique (once again)
    By Huxley in forum Guitar Technique
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 04-03-2005, 02:06 AM
  2. To Eric V, about focusing on speed for a period!
    By Mike in forum Guitar Technique
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 04-02-2005, 11:25 AM
  3. Technique for Final Countdown
    By santosh_b in forum Guitar Technique
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-19-2004, 12:40 AM
  4. speed mechanics
    By ash in forum Guitar Technique
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-30-2003, 06:08 AM
  5. Jamey Andreas / Speed / Lightness
    By EricV in forum Guitar Technique
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-04-2002, 09:47 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •