Welcome!
Just a few a ground rules first...

Promotion, advertising and link building is not permitted.

If you are keen to learn, get to grips with something with the willing help of one of the net's original musician forums
or possess a genuine willingness to contribute knowledge - you've come to the right place!

Register >

- Close -
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18

Thread: "The Advancing Guitarist" book - question

  1. #1
    Registered User SillyCone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Brussels, Europe
    Posts
    90

    "The Advancing Guitarist" book - question

    Hello there !

    After reading EricV's review of the above mentionned book, "The Advancing Guitarist", I ordered it online and received it yesterday by mail.

    Wow. That book is amazing of humour and intelligence. I love the "make your own method" approach, that's a book for true autodidacts. The only problem is that due to that same fact, after only 2 pages I've already got enough work for more than 6 months :)

    There's something I don't understand, tough, and if I do, I might get busy for 5 more years (still after only 3 pages :)
    What does the author call "modal vamps on a single string" ? If only I knew what vamps means... He also says it's a good idea to play every single mode on each string, but only using natural notes... How can you play all modes without flats or sharps ?

    So if you peaked in that marvelous book and understood the first chapters, could you drop a few lines in here ? thanks :)

    Cheers,
    SillyCone.

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    111
    Indeed, a marvelous book!

    I'll answer your questions:

    1. Vamps = riifs / rhythm parts you can jam with. "Modal vamp" means a vamp built on a certain mode.
    For example - Cmaj7/D | Cmaj7/D | Fmaj7/d | G7/D | Would be good for D dorian...
    What Goodrick means is that you record yourself and then jam with the recorded track.

    2. Playing all modes without flats or sharps means to play only the modes derived from C major. As you'll see when you continue reading, even mapping the C major scale takes tons of time, but when you have the natural notes, it's much easier to learn the rest of the keys.

    And finally, a general tip about this book - don't dare to work through it like you'll do with a method book. Why? Because your whole life will pass before you, and then you'll feel sorry for that.
    This book is a treasure, but you only need to read it. The materials in it are very general, so you must focus on what you really want to know, and combine the book's general approach of visualising with other easier appoach, if you ever want to truly improvise.
    Otherwise, you'll just keep practicing scales, modes and chords forever until you know EVERY chord of EVERY mode of EVERY scale on EVERY position, which will occur maybe in about 50 years of dedicated practice.
    Last edited by DepressedNazgul; 09-10-2003 at 12:41 PM.

  3. #3
    Registered User SillyCone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Brussels, Europe
    Posts
    90
    Originally posted by DepressedNazgul

    What Goodrick means is that you record yourself and then jam with the recorded track.
    You mean playing guitar along with your previous guitar track ? Won't it be a little chaotic ? What's the goal of that, precisely ?
    Originally posted by DepressedNazgul

    As you'll see when you continue reading, even mapping the C major scale takes tons of time, but when you have the natural notes, it's much easier to learn the rest of the keys.
    Actually, that's the major next accomplishment I want to get to : knowing my fretboard, starting with naturals. Do most "intermediate" guitar players know the natural's positions on the fretboard ?

    Originally posted by DepressedNazgul

    And finally, a general tip about this book - don't dare to work through it like you'll do with a method book. Why? Because your whole life will pass before you, and then you'll fill sorry for that.
    This book is a treasure, but you only need to read it. The materials in it are very general, so you must focus on what you really want to know, and combine the book's general approach of visualising with other easier appoach, if you ever want to truly improvise.
    Actually, I've been amazed at the preciousness of the first few pages, and overwhelmed by the "complexity" and details of the rest of the book. I thought more about using it in background of my practice "my whole life". You know, getting it out of the library from time to time to check what I now can understand and practice... Your view is wise, because it's easy to get lost in one single direction, sometimes.

    Originally posted by DepressedNazgul
    Otherwise, you'll just keep practicing scales, modes and chords forever until you know EVERY chord of EVERY mode of EVERY scale on EVERY position, which will occur maybe in about 50 years of dedicated practice. :)
    Grmbl, 50 years ? I knew I should have started playing guitar at 10, so that I could go through the whole book before I die... D**n it ! Yes, I know, I could die tomorrow, and that's why I picked my first guitar a few months ago at 29 ;)

    Actually, when you say it without the 50 years time limit, it seems really nice... Perfect fretboard knowledge... Raaah, keep dreaming ;)

    By any chance, you (or anybody out there) wouldn't know of other really good books of the same quality as "The Advancing Guitarist" ? Could be of any kind of subject, like melodic compositions and harmony, jazz, rock or bossa nova (my favorite :), etc.

    I think it's nice to have a unity in the learning material, like in books, compared to the overwhelming quantity of spare information hidden in thousands of pages on the internet... The only online lessons I kept in printed format and intend to read fully as well as do the exercises, are Guni's amazing work here on this site :) He should make a book of it, but I think he knows that already ;)

    It's quite hard to know if the books are good when ordering online, with just a pic and 3 lines of description, so having advice from people having read and practiced a book is much more relevant.

    Thanks for your time and precious answers,
    SillyCone.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    111
    1. It won't sound chaotic, coz it's exactly like improvising with a jam track (you DO record yourself a jam track!). It helps you apply the visualization in real circumstances.

    2. I think most players know, and need to know much more than that if they want to have equal freedom in all keys.

    3. What I have in my library along with The Advancing Guitarist is Jazz Theory by Mark Levine. It's much more than a theory book - the theory part is the most boring part in it. It's pretty different from other theory sources I've seen, because it focuses on the REAL MEANING of all this scales n' modes, how they sound, what feelings they invoke, on which recordings can you find them and so on. In the last chapters it contains very advanced materials, so you can't "finish" this book.
    However, you need some basic theory knowledge to use this book, it doesn't cover the basics.


    Hope this helps

  5. #5
    Ibreathe Music Advisor EricV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    6,039
    Well, I recently reviewed the book by Jon Finn for ibreathe... the review isnīt online yet, but should be soon.
    That one is another amazing book IMO... itīs a very entertaining one, and the concepts Jon covers are really cool. Instead of giving you bunches of patterns and scales, he tries to get you to UNDERSTAND some basic improvisational concepts, to use pentatonic scales in a different way etc.
    One of the best methods I have read so far, written by a very unique, smart and funny guy whoīs a kick-a** player...
    Eric
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
    Registered User chris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    250
    I think I'm going to get this book even before you post the article. Looks just like what I am looking for. How do you find these things with so much other junk out there?

  7. #7
    Ibreathe Music Advisor EricV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    6,039
    How do I find this stuff ? Sometimes itīs luck, but often, I hear about books and videos from students or colleagues.
    Also, in the case of the Finn-book... I knew that Jon Finn is a great player, and is very respected as an instructor ( he teaches at Berklee ). So I figured I should check out the book, cuz based on my impression of Jon, I expected something special... and wasnīt disappointed.
    Eric

  8. #8
    Registered User chris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    250
    And to answer my own question... I find the good stuff from Ibreathemusic.com

    Can anybody recommend a good recording software for a beginner that will allow me to add drums, bass and synths? I'm think Cakewalk HS 2004 but I've never used it.

  9. #9
    Groovemastah DanF's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    458
    You can try Audacity also: http://audacity.sourceforge.net

    It's a free multitrack editor that's pretty easy to use. Worst case scenario you don't like it; you can just delete it without losing any money.

    -Dan

  10. #10
    Registered User SillyCone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Brussels, Europe
    Posts
    90
    About books, thanks all for your suggestions.
    I went to a big library today, and amongst all guitar methods (and no book of the quality of the ones we mentionned in this thread), I found a nice different book : Zen Guitar (1997 - Philip Toshio Sudo - Simon & Schuster, Inc). I guess sir Bongo Boy would like it !
    I don't know yet if it's only humour or if one can learn something from it technically wise, but a little philosophy can't hurt, it's always nice to see things from a different angle.
    (especially if, like me, once you get passioned about something, you just can't leave the field :)

    Well, about recording softwares, DanF suggestion is nice (long life to open source softwares ! :) but Cakewalk HS offers many things that Audacity will never do. I have only tried Cakewalk HS 2002 and I could record a simple track in the first minutes of toying with it.
    The CHM manual and tutorial are well done and can get you started in a few minutes. (if you can stand reading online manuals that is...)

    Take a look at Cakewalk Guitar Tracks 2.0 (Pro), it was made for guitar, not like HS, and there are some nice improvements in that direction, like an amp simulator, a chromatic tuner, a tool to slow down your backtrack without changing the pitch (great for practicing your favorite solo), easy drums by drag-and-drop, guitar effects (chorus, flanger,...) and many more options.
    Looks nicer to me than Home Studio for the home guitarist, although I haven't tried it yet.

    Don't take my word for anything, as always, I have only tried HS 2002 for less than an hour. And I don't work for Cakewalk ;)

    Silly(c)One.
    Last edited by SillyCone; 09-11-2003 at 01:42 PM.

  11. #11
    Groovemastah DanF's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    458
    I dunno about that. I'm sure cakewalk does do much more than Audacity but how much of it is useful and how much is stupid stuff? He asked about adding drums, bass etc. a simple multitrack sound editor will allow that.

    Also cakewalk uses VST plugins and Audacity can import those also (well, when 1.2 comes out) so that field should be narrowing as well. Anyway it's just a price versus what you're looking for point.

    -Dan

  12. #12
    Registered User chris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    250
    Thanks for the advice and link. I looked at that soundforge link... now these are the same guys that make the professional version aren't they? Is there a link that will show me how to add bass and drums?

    I have been looking at Cakewalk too and I actually do own Guitar Tracks 2 but it has limitations over Guitar Tracks Pro and the other Cakewalk line. The good news is because I am a registered Cakewalk user, I'll get a special discounted price on any other products I decide to buy with Cakewalk.

    I bought the book "Advanced Modern Rock Guitar Improvisation" today! Can't wait to get it.

  13. #13
    Registered User SillyCone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Brussels, Europe
    Posts
    90
    DanF, you're right, my intention was not to bash Audacity ; I should have looked at it closer. You know how it is with open source software, it's free but needs a bit more work to get running :)
    It's always easy to get attracted by the light, bells and whistles of a "do-everything-with-one-click-for-dummies" tools, even if with a little effort you can get everything and more with "harder" tools.
    I guess one advantage of guitar tracks is they provide you with a library of drums that you would have to make yourself with Audacity... But I just got involved into recording since your post about Audacity, so once more, take my posts with a grain of salt ! (and thanks a lot for linking Audacity :)

    Originally posted by chris
    I looked at that soundforge link... now these are the same guys that make the professional version aren't they?
    Hmm, nope, DanF links to souRCEforge, not souNDforge :)
    SouRCEforge is a repository of all kind of open souRCE programs. That is, programs that are free (but not necessarily in the financial way) to use, in the vein of linux and the GNU softwares. (a good read about intellectual properties and open source software can be found here : http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/. Also check out GNU's site (http://www.gnu.org) and his author, Richard Stalman's site : http://www.stallman.org/. Closing now the parenthesis on this subject else I'll spend the night writing ;)

    Originally posted by chris
    I have been looking at Cakewalk too and I actually do own Guitar Tracks 2 but it has limitations over Guitar Tracks Pro and the other Cakewalk line.
    Well, I guess, but if you already have Guitar Tracks, why would you need other tools ? Doesn't it do what you needed in the first place, do some easy recording with drum tracks ?
    Be carefull not to fall in the "GAS" syndrom ! (GAS stands for Gear Acquisition Syndrome). I'm having the GAS about books and docs, and loose to much time reading about the guitar and not enough practicing it, and it's a real burden. (that's probably why I went back to my classical guitar coz that's all you need to play, not like electrics where it's always the fault of your amp, pedal, pick if you can't play correctly one day ;)

    Originally posted by chris
    The good news is because I am a registered Cakewalk user, I'll get a special discounted price on any other products I decide to buy with Cakewalk.
    I bought the book "Advanced Modern Rock Guitar Improvisation" today! Can't wait to get it.
    Well, tell us your conclusions about your new software when you'll have it and the book :)
    Last edited by SillyCone; 09-11-2003 at 05:52 PM.

  14. #14
    Registered User SillyCone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Brussels, Europe
    Posts
    90
    For a software drumming machine, take a look at : http://www.leafdigital.com/Software/leafdrums/.
    It's quite cheap, and the "demo" version is unlimited, it just has a nag screen...
    It can't record anything tough, but could be used to create back tracks imported into Audacity, or just played "life" while you jam or practice on it.

    Just an idea.

  15. #15
    Registered User chris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    250
    Originally posted by SillyCone
    Be carefull not to fall in the "GAS" syndrom !
    Oh, pardon me, I think I've got it Should I go and see an arse doctor about this hehe

    I don't really want to place drum loops into my recordings as much as I want to program drum beats to make it sound more real. I don't know a thing about it but it's a good time to learn. I don't think I can use bass and sythns with GT 2. Plus GT2 has a 110 BPM limit.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •