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Thread: List of Tendencies

  1. #106
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    really great answers Ken, thank you for sharing.
    it's cool really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Valentino 2 View Post
    Was there a certain post that I talked about "Key Centering" that you're asking about?
    I'm afraid it's gone with the allaboutjazz forum. that's a shame. I think I might remember you evoking key centering in the context of pop songs built on chord loops,
    Does it sounds plausible to you ? I was asking if/how the ear would stay attached to the tonic chord and anticipate it because of the loop and how much that would affect the melody ?
    since then I've been also questioning it the other way around; the melody monophonically sounding its tonic(s) while the chords looping underneath it still keeping a certain relation to the melody, syncing to it or shifting from it depending on the moment in time. I thought this somehow had to do with key centering.
    is it the chord on beat 1 that takes much of the attention because of its privileged placement in time or is it because it starts by syncing/agreeing with the melody tonic ?
    in other words, who is responsible for the tonal center of the song ?

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by motherlode View Post
    Disclaimer: Any opinions, analyses, systems, methodologies, or other information expressed here should not be construed as musical advice.
    --------------------------------
    I'm not sure what the term 'key centering' in post#106 means, but consider this ...

    We know that there are (12) keys. Now consider a chord such as C7b9b5 as it would appear in each of the (12) keys.

    Even though the chord might be spelled correctly on paper ... it can still be wrong due to it's voicing. If such a chord is not native to the key, then it's voicing must allow it's tones to 'play nice' with the natives.

    For example:
    Q. What key is this?

    C7b9b5 ... | D-11 ... | D-69(b5) ... | Bb69/F ... ||

    I can tell you that those (4) chords work together as a team in support of the key.

    A. That's the 1st (4) bars of 'Old McDonald had a Farm' in 'C'.

    Why would this work? Because the 'C7b9b5' has been SLAVED to the key (through voicing) ... it has key centering if you will.
    -------------------------------
    e Bb Db Gb c
    Those (5) tones have 5! (5x4x3x2x1) = (120) possible voicing ...

    What's the point? When chords are all slaved to the same key ... they can be played in ANY ORDER!!

    The above (4) chords would yield: 4! (4x3x2x1) = (24) different progressions.

    I'll stop there ...
    @ML
    very interesting point indeed, is it OK to you to tell some examples of those chords voicings slaved to a melody in C major ?

    http://freejazzinstitute.com/showpos...52036_anatole_

    does the chords really matter to create an overall tonic / tonal center in this case when it seems the melody points so much (because of its intervals and its repetition) towards C ?
    Last edited by anatole; 11-13-2018 at 01:32 PM.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by motherlode View Post
    @anatole

    Congratulations for trying! My mother used to tell me nothing beats a failure , but a try.

    That's where all music begins, simple block chords with the melody. This is only for spelling purposes, they're blocks, not voiced yet. At the beginning stages, I don't suggest having the harmony above the melody.

    I only chose the above chords because they're so different from the originals. Now the voicing actually begins.

    Try this:

    Bar
    1) e Bb Db Gb c ... I only need (1) 'C' in the chord, the melody

    2) D g c f a --> D f b e g ... The melody comes to rest, so does the harmony

    3) F ('F' is played in the octave below the cluster) Ab b C# e ... wakes the ear up

    4) F Bb D g C --> E Bb Eb Ab C ... rest at the end of the phrase, (2) chord suspension, sets up the next move

    What's missing? Rhythm, how the tones will inter and exit, the use of space and timing, and above all audibility of the melody.

    Although interesting, I think this subject is off topic.


    Do the chords matter? Yes, if you're going to have harmony.


    You know the melody is in 'C' in your mind, but the ear didn't know that upon listening. And in fact, if one of these schoolboys were to analyze the music ... the melody would be viewed in terms of it's relationship to the chord.

    NOT as separate entity, because that's the way they've been taught.

    But as I've said more than once ... the melody and the harmony operate in a parallel universe.

    Some get it, and Some don't ... I'm Gone.
    http://freejazzinstitute.com/showpos...52036_anatole_

    if one would listen to each chord one after another (pausing the track), its top note, even though belonging to the melody is heard by the ear in relation to the chord !?

    now in another situation, one may recognize the oldmac's farm theme and begins hearing the melody on its own with the chords "coloring" it !?
    but isn't that the way things work and interact, top - down (the chords "coloring" the melody) AND bottom - up at the same time (the melody note at its relation to the chord tonic) ?
    and what is a "strong" melody really if not a melody that reveals its tonic regardless the chords sounding beneath it ?
    Last edited by anatole; 11-14-2018 at 04:41 AM.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by motherlode View Post
    back to the beginning, the term 'key centering' was not defined. I was only making a comment with a small example.

    I'm not overly concerned with how someone else hears the music. I only know how i hear it, and what i feel needs to heard ...

    I'm not a theoretician ... I'm a practitioner.
    ----------------------------
    now, i wrote out the example as music, not a theory exercise and added it to your audio post ...

    http://freejazzinstitute.com/showpos...52036_anatole_
    ok.

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