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Thread: Led Zeppelin Modes Examples

  1. #16
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldoortiz195 View Post
    Yes Ken. Immigrant song is entire in the key of F#m?
    F# natural minor, yes, except for a C chord ("our only goal will be the western shore").
    C has no logical relationship with F# minor, it's just a usefully surprising chord to follow A and B as a climax to the bridge. (There's a full bar rest before they go back to F#m.)
    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldoortiz195 View Post
    Do you think Kashmir has phrygian in it?
    No.
    It mixes a few modes on D. Mostly mixolydian overall, but hints of aeolian (natural minor) too.

    The bridge is on an A root, with an aeolian riff.

    The "exotic" effect of the tune (making it different from the average rock mixolydian sound) is that hook riff on the strings, chromatically rising from 5 through b6, maj6 and b7 to the root and rhythmically displaced. It's only the b6 that's chromatic to the mode, but used in such a way that it sounds "out".
    Alternatively (and maybe what Page was thinking) you could see it as "mixolydian b6" - 5th mode melodic minor, aka the "Hindu" scale (get it? ) - with the major 6th as the passing note.

    The 3rd of the mode is also not clearly stated until some way in, so it could (to begin with) be in D minor.
    When the chord riff comes in (0:54), it runs through a whole bunch of chords - G-D-F-C-D-A-C-G-Bb-F - keeping it ambiguous, although slightly weighted towards D minor.

    Then there's the nice little strings riff that comes in at 1:22:
    ---------------------------
    ---------------------------
    -1-2-3-2-1-2----------------
    ----------------4----------
    ---------------------------
    ---------------------------
    That's G# A Bb and F#, which - if you take the notes at face value (on the D root) - suggests a very exotic scale: D E F# G# A Bb C D, known variously as "Lydian Minor", "Mela Risabhapriya" or "Raga Ratipriya". However, I suspect the G# is merely acting as a chromatic approach to the A, while the Bb (along with the F#) continues to point to the Hindu scale (mixolydian b6).
    My guess would be that Page knew nothing of any of these scales, but loved the sound of the chromatic embellishments and the exotic flavour they imparted when used in this careful way. (He might just have heard of the Hindu scale back then; or at least have known about melodic minor and experimented with it.)

    Anyway... still no sign of phrygian mode anywhere! (The phrygian b2, Eb, is about the only note not included...)

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonR View Post
    F# natural minor, yes, except for a C chord ("our only goal will be the western shore").
    C has no logical relationship with F# minor, it's just a usefully surprising chord to follow A and B as a climax to the bridge. (There's a full bar rest before they go back to F#m.)
    No.
    It mixes a few modes on D. Mostly mixolydian overall, but hints of aeolian (natural minor) too.

    The bridge is on an A root, with an aeolian riff.

    The "exotic" effect of the tune (making it different from the average rock mixolydian sound) is that hook riff on the strings, chromatically rising from 5 through b6, maj6 and b7 to the root and rhythmically displaced. It's only the b6 that's chromatic to the mode, but used in such a way that it sounds "out".
    Alternatively (and maybe what Page was thinking) you could see it as "mixolydian b6" - 5th mode melodic minor, aka the "Hindu" scale (get it? ) - with the major 6th as the passing note.

    The 3rd of the mode is also not clearly stated until some way in, so it could (to begin with) be in D minor.
    When the chord riff comes in (0:54), it runs through a whole bunch of chords - G-D-F-C-D-A-C-G-Bb-F - keeping it ambiguous, although slightly weighted towards D minor.

    Then there's the nice little strings riff that comes in at 1:22:
    ---------------------------
    ---------------------------
    -1-2-3-2-1-2----------------
    ----------------4----------
    ---------------------------
    ---------------------------
    That's G# A Bb and F#, which - if you take the notes at face value (on the D root) - suggests a very exotic scale: D E F# G# A Bb C D, known variously as "Lydian Minor", "Mela Risabhapriya" or "Raga Ratipriya". However, I suspect the G# is merely acting as a chromatic approach to the A, while the Bb (along with the F#) continues to point to the Hindu scale (mixolydian b6).
    My guess would be that Page knew nothing of any of these scales, but loved the sound of the chromatic embellishments and the exotic flavour they imparted when used in this careful way. (He might just have heard of the Hindu scale back then; or at least have known about melodic minor and experimented with it.)

    Anyway... still no sign of phrygian mode anywhere! (The phrygian b2, Eb, is about the only note not included...)
    Hello JonR! Nice to talk to you again! you always come with a great explanation...
    About immigrant song you nailed it..natural minor, now i don't have more doubts, only live, jimmy page put a guitar solo and i think that solo is in F# minor dorian mode.
    About Kashmir, I understand what you explain very well...i think on the final part of the song two chords are used, seems to me like Gm to A .. a riff on mellotron is played and to me it seems like a mix between A phrygian dominant ( A Bb C# D E F G) and A hindu scale( A B C# D E F G) because the riff has the notes ( A B Bb C# D E F G)...These two scales came from D harmonic minor( phrygian dominant) and D melodic minor (Hindu)..5th mode...This is the little Phrygian i think this song relates..i agree with you.. Page has nothing with this theory, but and incredible amount of talent and a godly pair of ears..
    I have three more questions...
    Is "The Wanton Song" in G minor??
    Is "Dazed and Confused" in E minor?...the solo from dazed and confused uses E dorian mode??
    Thanks one more time for your explanations, very helpful as always and your patience.
    Sorry my bad english

  3. #18
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldoortiz195 View Post
    Hello JonR! Nice to talk to you again! you always come with a great explanation...
    About immigrant song you nailed it..natural minor, now i don't have more doubts, only live, jimmy page put a guitar solo and i think that solo is in F# minor dorian mode.
    I need to check that out...
    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldoortiz195 View Post
    About Kashmir, I understand what you explain very well...i think on the final part of the song two chords are used, seems to me like Gm to A .. a riff on mellotron is played and to me it seems like a mix between A phrygian dominant ( A Bb C# D E F G) and A hindu scale( A B C# D E F G) because the riff has the notes ( A B Bb C# D E F G)...These two scales came from D harmonic minor( phrygian dominant) and D melodic minor (Hindu)..5th mode...This is the little Phrygian i think
    I have to admit I didn't listen right to the end . It's not a track I'm totally familiar with, and assumed that after half-way through there wouldn't be any new material (more fool me...).
    If what you say is right, if the root is A at that point with a Bb in the scale, then yes that's at least a hint of phrygian.
    Again, though, I need to check it out...

    Then again, if you have all that information on the scale, sounds like you have your answer. It is what it is, either phrygian dominant with passing M2, or Hindu with passing b2.
    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldoortiz195 View Post
    I have three more questions...
    Is "The Wanton Song" in G minor??
    Is "Dazed and Confused" in E minor?...the solo from dazed and confused uses E dorian mode??
    Thanks one more time for your explanations, very helpful as always and your patience.
    Sorry my bad english
    Your English is fine. I just need to do some more research...

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonR View Post
    I need to check that out...
    I have to admit I didn't listen right to the end . It's not a track I'm totally familiar with, and assumed that after half-way through there wouldn't be any new material (more fool me...).
    If what you say is right, if the root is A at that point with a Bb in the scale, then yes that's at least a hint of phrygian.
    Again, though, I need to check it out...

    Then again, if you have all that information on the scale, sounds like you have your answer. It is what it is, either phrygian dominant with passing M2, or Hindu with passing b2.
    Your English is fine. I just need to do some more research...
    Thank you one more time JonR! If you discover these answers i will appreciate some explanation. Have a good day!

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