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Thread: Im having rhythm and timing issues

  1. #1
    dwest2419
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    Im having rhythm and timing issues

    Hi guys back with another thread. I have timing issues, and I have a metronome.

    In this video I seen this guy play and talk about quarter notes, eight notes, and sixteenth notes. But I do not know how many beats say, for instance, eight notes or triplets or quarter notes, or sixteenths are. Is it just one beat or something?

    Here's the video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3VwG1KdrQg

  2. #2
    dwest2419
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    Alright guys. I think I might have something here. I learned that a quarter notes equals one beat Am I not right?

  3. #3
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwest2419 View Post
    Alright guys. I think I might have something here. I learned that a quarter notes equals one beat Am I not right?
    Yes, in any time sig with "/4" on the bottom, a quarter note is one beat.
    A bpm figure for n/4 time sigs (most commonly 4/4 of course) is counting quarter notes.
    Eg, a bpm of 120 means 2 clicks (quarter notes) per second, and a whole 4/4 measure lasts 2 seconds.

    With time sigs like 6/8, it's more complicated. That has two beats in each bar, each one dividing into 3 8ths. IOW, the beat is a dotted quarter.
    So a time sig of 6/8 at 120 bpm means each click is still half a second, but that's a dotted quarter, so three 8ths (a triplet) will fit between each click. (And each measure lasts one second.)
    Last edited by JonR; 01-08-2013 at 03:59 PM.

  4. #4
    dwest2419
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    Hey JonR I had set my metronome to 60 bpm and the time signature is 3/4 and I notice that Im playing four notes for every three beats and Im currently playing these patterns. Am I playing tripletts or eight notes?

    Major Scale Box Pattern in the key of C

    Fret 3 Pattern 1
    E|-------|---5---|-------|---6---| 1st string
    B|-------|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---|
    G|---6---|-------|---7---|---R---|
    D|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
    A|---7---|---R---|-------|---2---|
    E|-------|---5---|-------|---6---| 6th string

    Fret 5 Pattern 2
    E|-------|---6--|-------|---7--|---R---| 1st string
    B|-------|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
    G|---7---|---R---|------|---2---|-------|
    D|---5---|-------|---6---|-------|
    A|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---|
    E|---6---|-------|---7---|---R---| 6th string

    Fret 7 Pattern 3
    E|---7---|---R---|-------|---2--|-------| 1st string
    B|-------|---5---|-------|---6---|-------|
    G|---2---|------|---3---|---4---|
    D|---6---|-------|---7---|---R---|
    A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
    E|---7---|---R---|-------|---2---| 6th string

    Fret 10 Pattern 4
    E|-------|---2--|-------|---3--|---4---| 1st string
    B|-------|---6---|-------|---7---|---R---|
    G|---3---|---4---|------|---5---|
    D|---7---|---R---|-------|---2---|
    A|---5---|-------|---6---|-------|
    E|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 6th string

    Fret 12 Pattern 5
    E|---3---|---4--|-------|---5--| 1st string
    B|---7---|---R---|-------|---2---|
    G|---5---|-------|---6--|-------|
    D|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---|
    A|---6---|-------|---7---|---R---|
    E|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---| 6th string

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwest2419 View Post
    the time signature is 3/4 and I notice that Im playing four notes for every three beats and Im currently playing these patterns. Am I playing tripletts or eight notes?
    If you are truly playing 4 notes for 3 metronome beats then you are playing a 4:3 polyrhythm - though there's a possibility you're just "off" the beat

    If you play one note per click those will be quarter notes...if you play two notes per click those will be eighth notes...if you play 3 notes per click those will be triplets.
    Last edited by walternewton; 01-10-2013 at 11:34 PM.

  6. #6
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwest2419 View Post
    Hey JonR I had set my metronome to 60 bpm and the time signature is 3/4 and I notice that Im playing four notes for every three beats and Im currently playing these patterns. Am I playing tripletts or eight notes?
    Not sure I understand your question.
    By 60 bpm, do you mean one click every second?
    By 3/4, do you mean that the clicks have different sounds, with sound 1 on beat 1, and sound 2 on beats 2 and 3? Or just that the music you are playing is in 3/4, and you are counting the clicks as "1-2-3-1-2-3..."?
    Do you mean you are counting each click as a beat (so one 3/4 measure lasts 3 seconds - very slow!), or are you dividing the space between each click into 3? That would make the bpm 180, a medium-fast watz tempo typical for 3/4; with the click marking every third beat. (eg just the "1"s, and not the "2" and "3".)

    When you say you are "playing four notes for every three beats", does that mean (as walter says), 4 notes evenly spaced over the 3 seconds that the 3 clicks last? This would be quite difficult, and a quite advanced use of the metronome. And you would be playing neither triplets nor 8th notes.
    Same applies if you are playing 4 notes per click but the click (one second) represents the whole 3/4 measure.

    Or are you playing 4 notes for each click with the clicks representing each beat? (very slow 3/4)? In that case, you are playing 16ths. 4 notes per click, 3 clicks per measure = 12 16ths in each bar. Here's how the latter would look graphically:
    Code:
    3/4, 60 bpm
          BAR:  1                       2
      Seconds: |1       2       3       4       5       6       etc
       CLICKS: |X       X       X      |X       X       X      |
        BEATS: |1       2       3      |1       2       3       etc
    1/4 notes: |q       q       q      |q       q       q      |
         8ths: |e   e   e   e   e   e  |e   e   e   e   e   e  |
        16ths: |s s s s s s s s s s s s|s s s s s s s s s s s s|
    If the clicks are quarter-notes (as above), then 3 notes per click would be triplets (8th triplets).

    BTW, the patterns you are playing are irrelevant!
    Last edited by JonR; 01-12-2013 at 02:56 PM.

  7. #7
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    @Dwest2419...

    JonR had told you most of it but still.. Let me help you.

    What does a quarter mean? It means 1/4 or to be exact, divided into 4 parts.
    What does an eighth mean? It means 1/8 or to be exact, divided into 8 parts.
    What does a sixteenth mean? It means 1/16 or to be exact, divided into 16 parts.

    And there we have 2 new terms; time signature and tempo.

    Time signature indicates the number of beats in a measure and the kind of notes used.

    Let us look at 3/4 time signature. We should get started with the bottom figure. The bottom figure indicates how many parts to be divided into. It says 4, therefore it means quarter beats. Then we look at the top figure. The top figure indicates the number of aforementioned beats to be used in a figure. It says 3, therefore the time signature tells us that there is a space of 3 quarter beats in a measure.

    Let's try another example.

    Let's look at a 3/8 time signature. Again, we get started with the bottom figure. It is 8 which means that it is in eighth beats. And the top figure says 3.

    In other words, the time signature tells us that there is a space of 3 eighth beats in a measure.

    Here's an example for you to try.

    You are given a time signature of 2/3. What does it tells you?

    *********

    Now, we move on to tempo.

    Usually, we see things like this:
    ♩ = 60.

    This means 60 crotchet beats in a minute, in other words, 60 quarter notes in a minute.

    Even in a 3/8 time signature, the tempo given could be the same, ♩ = 60. It is then up to ourselves to decide if we want to count the all beats which makes it to be ♪ = 120 or remain counting with ♩ = 60.

    In a ♩ = 60

    A 3/4 time signature should look like like this..
    | 1 2 3 | 1 2 3 | 1 2 3 | 1 2 3 || <- A missing 4th beat.

    A 3/8 time signature will be somewhat like this:
    |1 n 2 | 1 n 2 | 1 n 2 | 1 n 2 || <- Notice that is is not completed and a new beat starts off.

    But because this is counted as a 3/8 time, we could go like this:
    |1 2 3 | 1 2 3 | 1 2 3 | 1 2 3 ||

    A complete 8/8 time will be:
    |1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ||

    Which is exactly the same as a 4/4 time:
    |1 n 2 n 3 n 4 n | 1 n 2 n 3 n 4 n | 1 n 2 n 3 n 4 n | 1 n 2 n 3 n 4 n ||

    The same as what goes below.

    A 7/8 time signature will be somewhat like this:
    |1 n 2 n 3 n 4 | 1 n 2 n 3 n 4 | 1 n 2 n 3 n 4 | 1 n 2 n 3 n 4 || <- Notice the missing 'n'.

    A 15/16 time signature will be somewhat like this:
    |1 e n a 2 e n a 3 e n a 4 e n | 1 e n a 2 e n a 3 e n a 4 e n | 1 e n a 2 e n a 3 e n a 4 e n | 1 e n a 2 e n a 3 e n a 4 e n || <- Notice the missing 'a'.

    The digits are like the beats/clicks JonR mentioned.

    *********

    And without doubt, there are rhythms which are complicated time signatures such as 9/8 but before you even get started on that, you need to train yourself up. Here is an example to help you kickstart your practice with timing.

    We start with 4/4 time signature and ♩ = 75. Everyone loves 60,80,100bpm so we should really get started with odd bpms. That will help train our awareness of every beat.

    Before we get started, download a program called Audacity. Record yourself playing it over a metronome. This is a must else you will never improve. And now you can see how much you are off the beat.

    I personally own a Korg BeatLab digital metronome (BTL-1). It is able to break the beats up to triplets and/or sixteenth notes, so if you have the cash to spare for it, I suggest getting it. Or, if you own an android phone, install an application called Mobile Metronome. It is created by Gabriel Simões. Place them by the mic along with your amp (if you are playing an electric guitar).

    Anyhow, let's get started by breaking the given time signature up into eighth notes. I tend to call them the sub-divisions. We will have:

    | 1 n 2 n 3 n 4 n |

    Here's what I like to do. I will only play on all the 'n's. Once I start to get comfortable with it, I will start playing on targetted 'n's. For example, over the entire measure, I will only play on the 3rd 'n'. I will keep doing it until I am able to move around the 'n's as and when I like it. When I am comfortable, I will start to move around all the beats and sub-divisions.

    Then, I forgotten where or who did I found this on the net but it is a really good method to practice rhythm. Understand the purpose of the training; that is to take your reliance of the metronome out.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR9to6lbqTY Found it. It was JonR.

    *You can use Audacity to silent the unwanted beats for you to halve the metronome. You can just make a measure of it, silent the unwanted beats and start copy/pasting them to your desired duration.

    Or for convenience sake, practice them over even tempos.

    When you are able take your reliance out of the metronome, it is then time to move on to sixteenth notes.

    Break them up again and we will have:

    | 1 e n a 2 e n a 3 e n a 4 e n a |

    Now, this time, you have 'e's and 'a's to work on. Again, as above, train yourself to be able to move to all 'e', 'n' and 'a's of course, without reliance of a metronome. Record yourself when you are doing it.

    By the time you are able to move around these beats and subdivisions, you should start practicising them differently, that is to play on the selected beats but without rests. Initially, we played just to get on the beat, now we are feeling the duration of each beat/subdivisions. Here is an example:

    | 1 - - a 2 - n a - - - - 4 - n - :||


    P.S. While practicing with these rhythms, you can also work on chords and scales or even a melody. Rhythm is a must to perfect it.

    Also, I suggest you to read up lessons found here: http://www.musictheory.net/lessons (I think it was Malcolm who showed me this link.)
    Last edited by ToneDeaf; 01-15-2013 at 08:38 AM.

  8. #8
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    I see, so just concentrate on melody and the rest should take care of itself?



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    Last edited by rhianna; 11-11-2015 at 07:07 AM.
    Lily lara

  9. #9
    but why

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by aenaburg View Post
    but why
    what do you mean ?

  11. #11
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    great melody

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