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Thread: How to play outside?

  1. #1

    Smile How to play outside?

    How to play outside is the question. I saw this video that was helpful. I've seen this guy start on wrong notes and even land on wrong notes which I never seen done before. I always thought you start on a diatonic note and then play a couple of passing tones such as b2 b3 b5 b6 a couple of outside notes


  2. #2


    Hey check it out I start on a wrong note first then land right note later. This is a good example of chromatic phrasing thanks you guys you open my eyes to what I was doing wrong with chromatics I would play inside first then go outside first then go back inside. What I mean by that is play a diatonic scale then add outside notes from the chromatic scale then go back inside playing diatonic notes only. But now I play outside first then play inside last. thanks


    Im still exploring the option of starting outside, and then going back inside and then landing on an outside note, though. And finally the light has come on!

  3. #3
    Registered User Malcolm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Deep East Texas Piney Woods
    Joe Satriani said, and I paraphrase here; "It's OK to go out, just be back in for the 6th note".

    I think you would enjoy Joe Satriani Guitar Secrets. http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&key...l_83dqd68tfs_e

    Along with Joe Satriani you gotta listen to John Petrucci.
    The video. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...31298186612048 Stick around long enough to hear what he has to say about Scale Fragments and Sequences. The video gives you two hours of great information.

    The book. http://www.amazon.com/Rock-Disciplin.../dp/1576234746 Follows the DVD exactly with standard notation and tabs. Enough information to keep you busy for a year or so.....

    Have fun.

    Last edited by Malcolm; 07-29-2012 at 06:50 PM.

  4. #4
    Registered User
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    Jun 2006
    Here are fun ideas to sound outside. I have used a variety of scales over a standard chord melody http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcqL2nV3DRs
    Get your FREE 2 hour shred guitar course at http://www.thesecretsofshredguitar.com

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Learning more modes to use will always help. Find out which modes work well with major and which with minor to start with. Then pay attention to how the notes you play sound when you hold them out over certain chords. Basically any notes can sound "outside" as long as you can phrase them interestingly enough.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Try filling in different notes in the scale youre playing with chromatic runs. For example:”
    C D E F G A B …becomes
    CD E F F# G A A# B C etc etc

  7. #7
    Registered User Malcolm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Deep East Texas Piney Woods
    Don't worry so much about being in or out, or whether you start out, etc. just walk to the next target. Where are you wanting to move to - walk chromatically to that note, or chord, in doing so you call attention to your target, plus you've gone out and come back in. In doing so you've put to use a couple of the things you've been working on.

    You've been comping (strumming) the C major chord, next chord coming up is the F, walk to it with the D, D#, E notes and land on the F note for the chord change. Now strum the F chord. The boom, strum, strum, strum pattern works great with this walk. Boom being the root note (lowest note) of the chord, in this case Boom is the F note, now strum the full chord three times to complete the 4/4 measure. boom, strum, strum, strum.

    You are now strumming the F chord and want to go to the G7 chord. Walk these notes E, F, F# and land on the G note for the chord change. Now start your strum.

    On G7, strumming and want to get back to the tonic C. What three notes will get you to C, yes you have several ways to do this. A, A#, B and land on C for the change, or D#, D, C# and land on C.

    Walk in or out for a reason.
    Walk chromatically for a reason.

    If there is a reason for going out or walking chromatically the listener hears it as all good notes.
    Last edited by Malcolm; 08-04-2012 at 07:11 PM.

  8. #8
    Registered User
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    Aug 2012
    I'm not really good, but I'm gonna throw a penny of my thoughts here about my understanding of "out". It's going to be very subjective.

    Well, to me, there isn't really anything known as "out" because everything is related to the key of the bass/chord. Let's take the key of the song to be in C maj.

    Now, we classify which of them are "in" and which of them are "out". In my opnion, there are 2 ways:

    1) Pick a scale/mode and we fix the notes as "in" notes. For example, the pentatonics of C maj - C D E G A C. These are the "in" notes. The rest are the "Out" notes because they are not "in" the pentatonic scale of C maj. Everything else is out.

    2) The consonances and dissonance(s) of the notes to the key AND it's progressions. There are no "Out" notes in this instance. Neither are there any "In" notes. They are just consonances and dissonances. How "out" it is, simply is, how dissonant it is. Similarly, how "in" it is, simply is, how consonant it is. Now, even though you are focusing on consonances and dissonances, you need to be aware of what scale/mode you are in aka the "feel" of it. There is an explanation for this. I am gonna steal Malcolm's scale sequences. Take a look at it.


    Major Scale = R-2-3-4-5-6-7
    Major Pentatonic = R-2-3-5-6 leave out the 4 & 7
    Natural Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7 Major scale with a flat 3, 6 & 7
    Minor Pentatonic = R-b3-4-5-b7 Natural minor scale with out the 2 & 6
    Blues = R-b3-4-b5-5-b7 Minor pentatonic with the blue note (b5) added
    Harmonic Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-b6-7 Natural minor scale with a natural 7
    Melodic Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-6-7 Major scale with a b3.

    Major modes

    Ionian same as the Major Scale. R-2-3-4-5-6-7
    Lydian use the major scale and sharp the 4 - yes, it’s that simple. R-2-3-#4-5-6-7
    Mixolydian use the major scale and flat the 7. R-2-3-4-5-6-b7

    Minor Modes

    Aeolian same as the Natural Minor scale. R-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7
    Dorian use the Natural Minor scale and sharp the b6 back to a natural 6.
    Phrygian use the Natural Minor scale and flat the 2.
    Locrian use the Natural Minor scale and flat the 2 and the 5.
    Now, take a closer look at it. Did you realise that all 12 notes are used? They are just in different set of scales/modes and each scale/mode has their own "feel". The reason that you need to be aware of the scale/mode that you are in which I mentioned earlier is because you need to stabilise your melody (land), set it off at phrases (pick it up), shake them (intensify - I believe there's going to be lots of "feel" here) and stabilise (land) again. Various scales/modes gives different "feel", hence a different kind of "landing points". You wouldn't want to land fully in perfect cadence when your melody is "telling a story". You want to land somewhere, keeping your audience in suspense, awaiting for your story to "pick up" again.

    Of course, it doesn't comes with just this. Rhythmic and dynamics are just as important. They are your "feel" best buddies. You can make a melody with just 2 notes (my bad) if you play with them. Don't forget about the progressions! They determine your "feel" as well.

    Anyhow, I hope my theory actually makes sense. It's a theory that I came up with but I have yet achieved my personal "benchmark" to actually try this out yet. EDIT: And my hearing is in a mess.
    Last edited by ToneDeaf; 08-15-2012 at 04:51 PM.

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