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Thread: onboard tuner HELP, please!

  1. #1
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    onboard tuner HELP, please!

    a problem.... IF, A is 440 hertz, is there a measure for G#? Question is, I had a Takamine TNV360SC, which has a "cool tube" preamp/on-board tuner. I sold the guitar to a guy. He tested against HIS tuner, & the Takamine showed E, his tuner showed he was D# (a half tone.) So, I'm trying to find out if this is a tuner calibration problem that can be 'fixed' or is (a) the tuner on the Takamine is bad, or if his tuner is bad, or if there is a remedy. He states that a half tone is 100 cents, so if the tuner on the guitar was able to be calibrated to 438-445, that would cover about 700 cents-(if 1 hertz=100cents). I hope that you can decipher what I'm trying to find out. Thanks for any help you provide. I will be forwarding any info to the guy who bought the guitar. I hope I don't have to replace the preamp. It's $300. Takamine says they are not warranting the "machine heads, strings, or electronics." Lousy warranty, eh? Thanks again. Fred

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by snappingfish View Post
    a problem.... IF, A is 440 hertz, is there a measure for G#?

    If A is 440Hz, the value of the G# one half step below it in Equal Temperament is:

    440 * 2^(-1/12) = 415.3 Hz

    Quote Originally Posted by snappingfish View Post
    He states that a half tone is 100 cents, so if the tuner on the guitar was able to be calibrated to 438-445, that would cover about 700 cents-(if 1 hertz=100cents).
    Yes a semitone is 100 cents, no 1 Hz is not 100 cents; 438Hz-445Hz covers a range of about 27.4 cents.
    Last edited by walternewton; 07-10-2011 at 09:21 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by walternewton View Post
    If A is 440Hz, the value of the G# one half step below it in Equal Temperament is:

    440 * 2^(-1/12) = 415.3 Hz
    Thanks. Then, as I understand you, it would not be feasible to think that a correction can be made by a calibration that allows a range of 438 to 445.

    If the other guys tuner shows the "E" string as "D#", while the Takamine on-board tuner shows the "E" string to be "E" you say that it is a difference of about 23.7 Hz, and way out of reach for an available adjustment (calibration) of +/- 7 Hz?

    Any ideas? Based on the given information, waht is your 'best guess' as to where the problem lies? Could it be a simple fix, like the tuner battery, or something more dire, as in 'replace the Takamine preamp?'

    Thanks again for you knowledge and help.

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    I forgot to say welcome to the forum - though I should also note that as a site about music theory/technique etc. gear discussions generally aren't allowed here.

    Having said that, I agree IF his tuner is accurate and he's using it correctly, the adjustment point of A from 438-445 Hz wouldn't be enough to make for a half step difference.

    There could be so many different issues (a problem with the guitar's tuner/battery/calibration, a problem with his tuner/battery/calibration - not to mention the possibility of "buyer's remorse") I think it's impossible to say without the guitar in hand and a tuner known to be accurate, or a reference like a tuning fork/pitch pipe/in-tune piano etc.

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    thanks.....

    Quote Originally Posted by walternewton View Post
    I forgot to say welcome to the forum - though I should also note that as a site about music theory/technique etc. gear discussions generally aren't allowed here.

    Having said that, I agree IF his tuner is accurate and he's using it correctly, the adjustment point of A from 438-445 Hz wouldn't be enough to make for a half step difference.

    There could be so many different issues (a problem with the guitar's tuner/battery/calibration, a problem with his tuner/battery/calibration - not to mention the possibility of "buyer's remorse") I think it's impossible to say without the guitar in hand and a tuner known to be accurate, or a reference like a tuning fork/pitch pipe/in-tune piano etc.
    Thanks for the welcome. I've been a player for about 58-60 years! Right. Started with piano lessons when I was about 5-6, joined the union in 1961 or so, and now I just like to plink and pluck and plunk! HAAA! As to the other issue, not much I can prove/disprove from here. I sold it on eBaY, and I will do what it takes to keep my 'feedbacks' at 100% (with over 900 transactions). And, with no knowledge of the guy, he could be trying to feel better about his deal to the tune of $300 (the cost of the preamp), but he does also have a good record on eBaY, and I like to think that more of us are ethical than not.
    In the end, and after I get it from the horses mouth (Takamine), at the very best, I will try to get a preamp at cost, or at a sale price, and send it to him. If he's lookin for a paypal gift of $300, well, it ain't gonna happen. But, I don't know for sure that he isn't correct. I don't have a piano now, or anything to test it against. (I own a Korg, but never thought to test it against the Tak!) So, I tuned by the Cool Tube tuner, picked and grinned, and never though of confirming the tuning was spot on, so, I guess that I learn a little sumpin here!

    Thanks again, and I will try to refrain from subsequent gear questions in the future. I would appreciate it if you could leave this thread run for a while, though, and see if I catch any (favorable) responses.
    Thanks again

    the fish!

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    check this out...lol

    Quote Originally Posted by snappingfish View Post
    Thanks for the welcome. I've been a player for about 58-60 years! Right. Started with piano lessons when I was about 5-6, joined the union in 1961 or so, and now I just like to plink and pluck and plunk! HAAA! As to the other issue, not much I can prove/disprove from here. I sold it on eBaY, and I will do what it takes to keep my 'feedbacks' at 100% (with over 900 transactions). And, with no knowledge of the guy, he could be trying to feel better about his deal to the tune of $300 (the cost of the preamp), but he does also have a good record on eBaY, and I like to think that more of us are ethical than not.
    In the end, and after I get it from the horses mouth (Takamine), at the very best, I will try to get a preamp at cost, or at a sale price, and send it to him. If he's lookin for a paypal gift of $300, well, it ain't gonna happen. But, I don't know for sure that he isn't correct. I don't have a piano now, or anything to test it against. (I own a Korg, but never thought to test it against the Tak!) So, I tuned by the Cool Tube tuner, picked and grinned, and never though of confirming the tuning was spot on, so, I guess that I learn a little sumpin here!

    Thanks again, and I will try to refrain from subsequent gear questions in the future. I would appreciate it if you could leave this thread run for a while, though, and see if I catch any (favorable) responses.
    Thanks again

    the fish!
    the buyer sent this-(I'm glad that ethical behavior is not dead yet!) : "Well this is embarrasing. I went to go take a picture of my stand alone tuner beside the onboard tuner.

    I pulled out a different stand alone tuner to try and it showed the strings were tuned down a semi-tone (ex. D#). What? I went back to the first stand alone tuner I tried and it showed at pitch (ex. E). I thought okay, I guess the first tuner must be bad (embarrassing enough), but then I noticed it was set to chromatic and so I checked it's calibration (which is adjustable) and it had been adjusted. I let other people use it every week and I guess someone must have inadvertently changed it's calibration. It was still stupid of me to not have noticed.

    In short: the CTP-2 onboard tuner is working perfectly. My humble apologies and thanks for your assistance!"

    A great ebay buyer!

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    Glad it all worked out!

  8. #8
    †Guitar Hero† ndrewoods's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snappingfish View Post
    a problem.... IF, A is 440 hertz, is there a measure for G#? Question is, I had a Takamine TNV360SC, which has a "cool tube" preamp/on-board tuner. I sold the guitar to a guy. He tested against HIS tuner, & the Takamine showed E, his tuner showed he was D# (a half tone.) So, I'm trying to find out if this is a tuner calibration problem that can be 'fixed' or is (a) the tuner on the Takamine is bad, or if his tuner is bad, or if there is a remedy. He states that a half tone is 100 cents, so if the tuner on the guitar was able to be calibrated to 438-445, that would cover about 700 cents-(if 1 hertz=100cents). I hope that you can decipher what I'm trying to find out. Thanks for any help you provide. I will be forwarding any info to the guy who bought learn the guitar. I hope I don't have to replace the preamp. It's $300. Takamine says they are not warranting the "machine heads, strings, or electronics." Lousy warranty, eh? Thanks again. Fred
    Well many acoustic players prefer to install Takamine's branded Tri-Ax pickup, an all-encompassing pickup that includes an onboard preamp, but switching this pickup for another, similar one is a simple task.
    Last edited by ndrewoods; 09-18-2011 at 05:10 AM.

  9. #9
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    I'm going to let this one roll, its a productive chat more about tuning than tuners.

  10. #10
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