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Thread: Notation - 3 quarters rest

  1. #1
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    Notation - 3 quarters rest

    Hello my friends

    Another notation doubt....

    Which one is more correct or most accepted?

    This one...

    REST 1.JPG

    or this one?

    REST 2.JPG

  2. #2
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    They're both fine. However, if the last three beats consisted of rests, a quarter-rest followed by a half-rest would be correct. Rests should follow the time signature. One can extend to a smaller value by dotting but not to a larger so a dotted rest should represent a large value followed by a small value.

    I guess that if an entire section of a piece had the rhythm quarter-half-quarter, one could use a dotted half-rest on the second beat, but it would still make for difficult sightreading.

  3. #3
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbarata View Post
    Hello my friends

    Another notation doubt....

    Which one is more correct or most accepted?

    This one...

    REST 1.JPG

    or this one?

    REST 2.JPG
    The first is correct - or at least more correct.

    My "Essential Dictionary of Music Notation" states that: "A dotted half rest should not be used in simple meter" - IOW, not as shown in your second example.
    (It also says dotted quarter rests shouldn't be used in simple meters.)

    It states dotted rests (in general) are used "mainly to clarify the subdivision of a measure". IOW, largely in compound meters, where (eg) a dotted quarter would indicate a beat in 6/8 or 9/8.
    In 4/4, a dotted half-rest obscures the subdivision of the meter.

    The dotted half-rest would be understood, of course, but it's not ideal.
    Last edited by JonR; 12-05-2010 at 04:15 AM.

  4. #4
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    Rests should follow the time signature.
    So, if the time signature is 4/4, then the rests to be used more correctly should be only quarter rests, or smaller if necessary. Like the examples bellow:

    rest 3.JPG

    My "Essential Dictionary of Music Notation" states that: "A dotted half rest should not be used in simple meter" - IOW, not as shown in your second example.
    (It also says dotted quarter rests shouldn't be used in simple meters.)
    Sorry JonR but what do you mean by simple meters? Something like 4/4, 2/4 or 2/2? Those that are not divisible by the same number simultaneously?

  5. #5
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbarata View Post
    So, if the time signature is 4/4, then the rests to be used more correctly should be only quarter rests, or smaller if necessary. Like the examples bellow:

    rest 3.JPG
    Not quite. Half rests are fine in 4/4, as long as they don't cross the half-way point in the bar (an important subdivision in 4/4).

    Below is the correct (or maybe "best" ) way to notate your example: (btw,how do you get your attachments to appear in the middle of your text? Mine always appear at the bottom - it would be useful to be able to write stuff underneath them.)

    You'll notice the beat positions are clear. Rests are the largest possible size without crossing beats 2 and 3. So we can have a half instead of two quarters (across beats 1 & 2, or 3 & 4), a quarter instead of two 8ths, etc.

    The twin concerns are clarity of reading (seeing the timing as clearly as possible) and elegance of appearance - not too many signs.

    I'd personally be OK with a dotted half-rest in bar 1, but I think the half+quarter is clearer.
    And I think have seen 4/4 notation with a half-rest covering beats 2 and 3; it's not particularly confusing - but it doesn't seem to be conventional.

    Quote Originally Posted by rbarata View Post
    Sorry JonR but what do you mean by simple meters? Something like 4/4, 2/4 or 2/2? Those that are not divisible by the same number simultaneously?
    Simple meters are those with 4 or 2 on the bottom. Each beat divides naturally into 2.
    The opposite is compound meter, where the beats divide into 3s (normally), as in 6/8, 9/8, 12/8 etc.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meter_(music)
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #6
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Here's an example of the use of dotted rests in 12/8 time. As in 4/4, the rests indicate the subdivision of the bar into beats (4 beats of three 8th notes each), with the main subdivision between beats 2 and 3.
    The dotted half rest can cover beats 1 and 2 or beats 3 and 4, but not beats 2 and 3:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #7
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    Half rests are fine in 4/4, as long as they don't cross the half-way point in the bar (an important subdivision in 4/4).
    So, basically it's like this one bellow (the first measure is not correct, the remaining three are ok). Right?

    REST 4.JPG

    And, as I can see from the first example you've posted (4th measure, where you've replaced my two 16th rests by one 8th), a rest should always be the biggest possible as long as it doesn't cross beats 2 and 3. This is just for the simplicity sake, to avoid a lot of symbology.

    (btw,how do you get your attachments to appear in the middle of your text? Mine always appear at the bottom - it would be useful to be able to write stuff underneath them.)
    After you've selected and uploaded your image file, close the uploading window. Then put the cursor in the text where you want to place the picture and open again the uploading window. You'll see a list of all the uploaded files, select the one you want and you'll see the [image] [/image] code in your reply.

  8. #8
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbarata View Post
    So, basically it's like this one bellow (the first measure is not correct, the remaining three are ok). Right?

    REST 4.JPG
    Right
    Quote Originally Posted by rbarata View Post
    And, as I can see from the first example you've posted (4th measure, where you've replaced my two 16th rests by one 8th), a rest should always be the biggest possible as long as it doesn't cross beats 2 and 3. This is just for the simplicity sake, to avoid a lot of symbology.
    Exactly.
    Quote Originally Posted by rbarata View Post
    After you've selected and uploaded your image file, close the uploading window. Then put the cursor in the text where you want to place the picture and open again the uploading window. You'll see a list of all the uploaded files, select the one you want and you'll see the [image] [/image] code in your reply.
    Thanks - I'll try that next time.

  9. #9
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    Many thanks for the replies.

  10. #10
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    I checked out both of them. In the beginning I thought that both are correct. To make matters clear I forwarded the link to a friend of mine who is a musician and he told me that the first one was the correct one if you take into consideration the “Essential Dictionary of Music Notation".
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    Last edited by nagrm; 01-14-2011 at 10:54 AM.
    Appreciate to be appreciated

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