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Thread: A la Bossa

  1. #1
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    A la Bossa

    Have a slow 56 k conection, cant upload power tab or stuf like that. So i use my sequenser and the print screen option
    The first bar is the lead in and the missing bar at the end is D7. I can bet you knew that

    I would like this song to "soud" Bossa but the "Dim" chords seems to be.. How can i say ? Sitting to much on the melody note or what ever this means ? So if you got any sugjestions or may i say substitution

    Tanks



  2. #2
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    IMO Ddim7 is fine; the melody note is not the issue for me, it's that it's a bit too similar to the next chord (C#7, right?).

    The typical jazz chord here (which would also suit bossa, IMO) would be the ii of F#m = G#m7b5, which leads well to C#7 - but as G# is the melody note, that's not ideal.
    Why not just invert the G#m7b5 and call it Bm6? Much the same as the previous chord, of course, but nothing much wrong with that. (Somehow I think that similarity is less of a problem than the Ddim7/C#7 similarity.)
    Another possibility might be D7b5, or the juicier D7#11 (melody being the #11). I don't have a guitar with me now to try it, but I suspect D7#11 could sound cool there. Goes to C#7 well too, of course.

    Later on, btw, I would suggest trying F#m7b5-B7b9 in place of your Ebdim and Cdim (which are the same chord essentially), as a conventional ii-V to Em. (And the melody notes are still chord tones of course.) F7 might also be a cool sub for B7b9, to lead to Em.
    Last edited by JonR; 10-08-2010 at 03:39 PM.

  3. #3
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    Tanks a lot. I could have lived whit the Ddim 7 to
    The D7#11 is a bit to spicy for me (at least in that song) i like the D7b5 and of course the F#m7b5-B7b9 in place of the Ebdim and the Cdim. Its sounds "like" a Bossa now.
    Tanks again
    Last edited by Michel; 10-08-2010 at 10:33 PM.

  4. #4
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michel View Post
    Tanks a lot. I could have lived whit the Ddim 7 to
    The D7#11 is a bit to spicy for me (at least in that song) i like the D7b5 and of course the F#m7b5-B7b9 in place of the Ebdim and the Cdim. Its sounds "like" a Bossa now.
    Tanks again
    D7b5 may just be D7#11 without the 5th.

    The point is that a "7b5" chord symbol usually suggests the wholetone scale. "7#11" implies lydian dominant, which is usually the best scale for a dom7 resolving down a half-step. You don't have to include all the chord tones - IOW, you can use a voicing which looks like a D7b5. I would still suggest calling it D7#11, however.
    The "#11" also makes enharmonic sense. The "b5" would be Ab, whereas the correct enharmonic in this context is G#: IOW, the #4 or #11 of a D7.

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    Well D7b5 is 1 3 b5 b7. The D7#11 goes 1 3 5 b7 #11 right ? One clear thing whit the D7b5 is that there is no perfect 5th, the 5th is b5. But seems to me that there is a perfect 5th whit a #4 ( or b5) on the top of the D7#11 chord. Whit that in mind the chords dont sound the same at all. At least for me.
    But yes whit no 5th on the D7#11 its the same sound.

    You are giving my brain and my ears a hard time Thanks

  6. #6
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michel View Post
    Well D7b5 is 1 3 b5 b7. The D7#11 goes 1 3 5 b7 #11 right ? One clear thing whit the D7b5 is that there is no perfect 5th, the 5th is b5. But seems to me that there is a perfect 5th whit a #4 ( or b5) on the top of the D7#11 chord.
    No - the 5th should always be voiced below the #11. On top will sound bad, you're right.

    On guitar, it's difficult to get both 5th and #11 in the chord, so the 5th is often left out. It would still be incorrect, tho, to change the name of the chord to 7b5. (Jazz musicians frequently omit 5ths, and even roots, even when it's possible to include them.)
    The point is that - in jazz anyway - chord symbols are used to imply scales, as well as notes included. A jazz player might well interpret D7b5 as meaning D lydian dominant (D7#11), esp if used as a bII chord (resolving to C# or C#m) - as it would be here. So calling it D7b5 is not a huge problem - just a slight grammatical error, if you like . I think I've actually seen "b5" used in a few pro charts where "#11" is more correct.
    If - OTOH - you call it D7#11, he's not going to struggle to include the 5th.

    If it was important in your sequence that the #4/b5 was voiced low, I think D7b5 might actually be better, in fact. (Chord symbols aren't supposed to indicate voicing, but IMO there is a kind of unconscious expectation that they often do. If I saw "D7b5" I might be tempted to place the b5 lower in the chord than if I saw "D7#11" - even "D7#4", which is a valid alternative symbol.)
    Of course D7b5 is the same notes as Ab7b5 (G#7b5) - so it might be worth thinking about whether "G#7b5" communicates the chord you want better. Or even "D7#4/G#"!

    Sorry if I'm not helping much!

  7. #7
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    Got it ! Thanks again

    Hope you are kidding when you say you are sorry for not helping much.

  8. #8
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michel View Post
    Got it ! Thanks again

    Hope you are kidding when you say you are sorry for not helping much.
    Well, it seemed like I was saying a few different things that contradicted each other. But if it helps, of course I'm happy!

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