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Thread: Strickly clave

  1. #1
    Latin Wedding Band Los Boleros's Avatar
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    Strickly clave

    In this thread we are going to play over a very basic afro-Cuban beat. The bass is playing a tumbao rhythm over a clave beat and the notes are G-C-D-C.

    You can play in the Key of G minor or you can play it in the key of G major since there are no thirds in the bass line. You chose!

    What to do:
    1.Decide whether you want to make it a major key or minor key.
    2.Listen to the clave... (Those two sticks that lay down the foundation for the beat.)
    3.Find your grove within the clave.
    4.Try is in major key and minor key for fun.

    Have fun!
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  2. #2
    Latin Wedding Band Los Boleros's Avatar
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    Stricktly clave

    In this thread we are going to play over a very basic afro-Cuban beat. The bass is playing a tumbao rhythm over a clave beat and the notes are G-C-D-C.

    You can play in the Key of G minor or you can play it in the key of G major since there are no thirds in the bass line. You chose!

    What to do:
    1.Decide whether you want to make it a major key or minor key.
    2.Listen to the clave... (Those two sticks that lay down the foundation for the beat.)
    3.Find your grove within the clave.
    4.Try is in major key and minor key for fun.

    Have fun!
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  3. #3
    Registered User Malcolm's Avatar
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    Let's talk about bass guitar and the bass line. Am I hearing a repeated G-C-D-C bass line, i.e. those same four notes through out the piece - except for the closing measure?

    Is this the bass line I'm hearing |R-4-5-4|R-4-5-4|R-4-5-4| in G.

    Am I reading more into this than there is? You've got THE chord progression - using all roots in one measure. Is that by design?

    Would not have done that - and I do have trouble building a Latin groove, but this does help.

    Interesting, thanks for posting.

    Malcolm
    Last edited by Malcolm; 09-23-2010 at 01:43 PM.

  4. #4
    Latin Wedding Band Los Boleros's Avatar
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    Yes... It.s a 1-4-5-4 in the key of G. When I improvize over something like this, I tend to think of it as a 1-5 progression. (A half cadence) It's easier for me to keep track.

    I will be working on some tracks tonight...
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  5. #5
    Latin Wedding Band Los Boleros's Avatar
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    New backing tracks with a little more color

    I added some light tres Cubano tumbaos to give the rhythms more color. You can use these or the rhythm tracks above if you want to make your own rhythm.
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  6. #6
    Latin Wedding Band Los Boleros's Avatar
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    Here is my take in G minor...

    Mostly G minor but I use harmonic minor over the D. There are a few chromatic runs and a screaming flat five.
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    Last edited by Los Boleros; 09-24-2010 at 04:43 AM.
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  7. #7
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    Here is my take in G major

    This solo is mostly in G major. There are some chromatic runs, a few melodies and some rhythmic triads.

    Fun stuff.
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    Last edited by Los Boleros; 09-24-2010 at 04:44 AM. Reason: spelling
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  8. #8
    Latin Wedding Band Los Boleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm View Post
    Is this the bass line I'm hearing |R-4-5-4|R-4-5-4|R-4-5-4| in G.

    Am I reading more into this than there is? You've got THE chord progression - using all roots in one measure. Is that by design?

    Would not have done that - and I do have trouble building a Latin groove, but this does help.

    Interesting, thanks for posting.

    Malcolm
    The bass rhythm accents on the &1 and the &3. Nothing really on the down beat. It hits before the down beat and rings through the 1 and the 3.

    The omission of the thirds is not by design. Latin dance grooves are all ones and fives.
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  9. #9
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    I gues i'm more familiar whit the G major sounding. The minor track took me by suprise, i'm not use to those kind of orient scale's. (Maby not, but for me it soud's like an orient scale Loll
    I know nothing about Afro_ Cuban music but i may try something..

    It' cool and interesting. Keep on

  10. #10
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michel View Post
    I gues i'm more familiar whit the G major sounding. The minor track took me by suprise, i'm not use to those kind of orient scale's. (Maby not, but for me it soud's like an orient scale Loll
    I know nothing about Afro_ Cuban music but i may try something..

    It' cool and interesting. Keep on
    There's no "orient scales" here - same old scales as used in other western music. Pure major scale here, to be precise.

    What's strange - and hard to get used to for many people - is the unusual rhythmic emphasis, as Los Boleros mentions. In particular the bass doesn't play on "1" - it plays on beat "2-and" and beat 4. Beat 4 is a kind of anticipation of beat 1 of the next bar. For anyone having trouble following the sound clip, here's how the bass and clave rhythm sit with the beats:

    Code:
        BEATS: 4  . |1  .  2  .  3  .  4  . |1  .  2  .  3  .  4  . |
    2-3 CLAVE:      |      x     x          |x        x        x    |
         BASS: G____|_        C        D_____         C        G______  etc
    It's very important that you can hear (feel) that missing beat 1 at the beginning of the 2-bar pattern, and that you don't let habits of western pop and rock bass playing mislead you.
    It helps to get into the groove of that 2-3 clave first. You'll see that the 3rd clave hit of the pattern is on the downbeat of the 2nd bar - this can help if you're feeling lost.
    Once you feel the "tumbao" rhythm, it's an irresistible groove!

  11. #11
    Latin Wedding Band Los Boleros's Avatar
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    Nice reply Jon. Yes, once you get the hang of the clave and tumbao, it makes tons of sense. Only problem is I have been working on it for years and it will take the rest of my life to perfect...

    What is actually happening in this tumbao is the bass is accenting on the 4& and the 2#. Because it is an anticipated beat, I prefer to think of it as &1 and &3.
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    Now i know Jon. Los Boleros kindly seed me a PM explening me what he was playing on the minor track. Maybe it's de B note in there. But anyway i realy like what he's playing. (Thank's Rudy )

    One thing for sure, It's not as easy as it look's first, but whit those explanation i now know wy every thing i tried to play over the backing trak soud's out of style.

    I Got to focus on the groove !!!! Easy to say...........

  13. #13
    Latin Wedding Band Los Boleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michel View Post
    Now i know Jon. Los Boleros kindly seed me a PM explening me what he was playing on the minor track. Maybe it's de B note in there. But anyway i realy like what he's playing. (Thank's Rudy )

    One thing for sure, It's not as easy as it look's first, but whit those explanation i now know wy every thing i tried to play over the backing trak soud's out of style.

    I Got to focus on the groove !!!! Easy to say...........
    Well Like Jon said, it's basically a G minor scale with some G harmonic minor over the D7. I like to disguise it a bit by adding some chomatic notes as fillers.

    The solo starts out with a trill on the D and Eb notes.

    Then it does this:
    Code:
    E
    B------------------3-4-3---3-6-6-4-4-3-3---------6-6-5-6-5---------3
    G----0-2-3-4-5------------------------------5-5----------------5-5-------5-4-3-2-5-4-3-2-1-3-2-1-0-1-2-3-2
    D
    A
    E
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  14. #14
    Registered User urucoug's Avatar
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    This is a fun thread! It's a nice little groove you made for us, Los Boleros. This is the first attempt at a Latin style I've ever attempted, not to mention one of my first attempts at playing with other musicians. And, for sure the first piece of music of mine that can be found online.

    Hopefully more capable people will also post theirs. It's too good of a back track not to have some contributions from some other of you guitar whizzes.

    My method was to listen to the back track, and then sing into a microphone. Then, I imitated that singing on guitar, and kept redoing it, tweaking it until I liked it the most. One day, I may be good enough on guitar to play what's in my head the first time.

    Critiques welcome.
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  15. #15
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urucoug View Post
    This is a fun thread! It's a nice little groove you made for us, Los Boleros. This is the first attempt at a Latin style I've ever attempted, not to mention one of my first attempts at playing with other musicians. And, for sure the first piece of music of mine that can be found online.

    Hopefully more capable people will also post theirs. It's too good of a back track not to have some contributions from some other of you guitar whizzes.

    My method was to listen to the back track, and then sing into a microphone. Then, I imitated that singing on guitar, and kept redoing it, tweaking it until I liked it the most. One day, I may be good enough on guitar to play what's in my head the first time.

    Critiques welcome.
    Nice try - nice phrasing, good choice of notes, etc.
    BUT - you've made one crucial error: mistaken the rhythm. It seems from your phrasing that you're feeling the percussion and bass rhythm like this:
    Code:
        BEATS: |1  .  2  .  3  .  4  . |1  .  2  .  3  .  4  . |
        CLAVE: |x           x     x    |      x        x       |x    |
         BASS: |G______        C       |D_____         C       |G______  etc
    That's a very natural way to feel it - for a non-Cuban musician! - but it's wrong. The correct beat placement is as follows (as I posted earlier in the thread):
    Code:
        BEATS: 4  . |1  .  2  .  3  .  4  . |1  .  2  .  3  .  4  . |
    2-3 CLAVE:      |      x     x          |x        x        x    |
         BASS: G____|_        C        D_____         C        G______  etc
    So the bass actually starts on beat 4, and beat 1 of the first bar is missing. The clave at the beginning starts on beat 2.

    (My apologies if you do understand this, and were deliberately phrasing off the beat!)

    I'm posting my own version here, as a demo to try to help you hear the beat. What I've done is added a cowbell on beats 1 and 3, with a heavier beat on the first downbeat of each pair of bars. Follow the cowbell. (try to ignore the bass to begin with)
    Code:
        BEATS: 4  . |1  .  2  .  3  .  4  . |1  .  2  .  3  .  4  . |
    2-3 CLAVE:      |      x     x          |x        x        x    |
      COWBELL:       X           x           x           x
         BASS: G____|_        C        D_____         C        G______  etc
    On guitar, I'm not improvising, but quoting a couple of tunes you may recognise: Guantanamera and El Manisero (the Peanut Vendor). The last one in particular should help you feel the groove.
    (Apologies to Los Boleros for using such a cliche! And also for using Guantanamera, which is really a cha-cha, not designed for this tempo. It just happened to fit the changes.)
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