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Thread: Which notes/keys go with which chords

  1. #1
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    Which notes/keys go with which chords

    I download a program that shows you which keys go with which chords, however i wondered if there is anywhere you can find a chart that shows you this?

    Cheers
    Pete

  2. #2
    bitter old fool Jed's Avatar
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    Read the articles that I posted on your other thread.

    Yes there is a very simple way to determine which chords go with which key and which notes are used to make each chord.

  3. #3
    Registered User Malcolm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jed
    Read the articles that I posted on your other thread.

    Yes there is a very simple way to determine which chords go with which key and which notes are used to make each chord.
    Yes read those three articles JohR gave you. I'm a chart person; here are some charts.

    Which chords go with which key - if you have a handy dandy key chart you could list the chords in your piece of music, cross out all duplications, put what's left in alphabetical order and then see what key all of those chards fit into, i.e. match them with your handy dandy key chart. If all fit into one key that's your key, if you only have say 2 chords you have to look and see what other key may have those 2 chords also, and then make a decision which is the most likely.

    Here is a handy dandy key chart.
    http://www.ezfolk.com/uke/Tutorials/...ord-chart.html

    What key has an Bm chord, A chord, E chord, A chord, E chord, and G#dim chord?

    Now what notes make up a chord. You need two things for this; 1) a handy dandy scale chart and then 2) the formulas for what notes are used to make the chord. Here are those two charts.

    Handy Dandy Major Scale Chart
    C D E F G A B...............Notice the C scale has no Sharps
    G A B C D E F#.............and the G scale has one, the F#
    D E F# G A B C#...........and the D scale keeps the F# and
    A B C# D E F# G#.........adds the C#. Then the A scale keeps
    E F# G# A B C# D#.......everything and adds the G#. See how
    B C# D# E F# G# A#.....it builds on it's self.
    F# G# A# B C# D# E#
    C# D# E# F# G# A# B#
    F G A Bb C D E.............Look what happens with the flat scales
    Bb C D Eb F G A...........F has one the Bb, then the Bb scale keeps
    Eb F G Ab Bb C D.........it's self and adds the the Eb. Same thing
    Ab Bb C Db Eb F G.......the sharp scales did...
    Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C
    Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F
    Cb Db Eb Fb Gb Ab Bb
    Memory pegs:
    See God Destroy All Earth By F#irey C#haos.
    Fat cats go down alleys eating birds.
    Farmer brown eats apple dumplings greasily cooked.
    Figure out how these memory pegs can help - that fish thing - and they will make more since.

    Handy Dandy Natural Minor Scale Chart
    A B C D E F G ................Notice how the 6th column of the
    E F# G A B C D................Major scale becomes the 1st column
    B C# D E F# G A..............in the minor scale and how the 7th
    F# G# A B C# D E............column of the Major scale is now the
    C# D# E F# G# A B..........2nd column in the minor scale. And
    G# A# B C# D# E F#........yep, the 1st column in the Major scale
    D# E# F# G# A# B C#......is now the 3rd column, etc. etc.
    A# B# C# D# E# F# G#....Ask your self why? Hint, think relative minor.
    D E F G A Bb C
    G A Bb C D Eb F
    C D Eb F G Ab Bb
    F G Ab Bb C Db Eb
    Bb C Db Eb F Gb Ab
    Eb F Gb Ab Bb Cb Db
    Ab Bb Cb Db Eb Fb Gb

    Here is the chord formula chart:
    http://www.smithfowler.org/music/Chord_Formulas.htm

    The formula for a major chord is 1-3-5 or you use the 1, 3 & 5 note of the scale, i.e. For the D major chord you need the D, F# and A notes.
    For the Dm (D minor chord) you need the D, F and A notes. The F# is flatted into just a plain ole F for the Dm chord. Formula for a minor chord is 1-b3-5.

    What are the notes needed to make a B major chord?

    Have fun.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Malcolm; 09-10-2009 at 11:44 AM.

  4. #4
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    Thanks ive been having a read through these, but i keep finding myself going in circles:

    I had a look at:

    http://www.smithfowler.org/music/Chord_Formulas.htm

    Are Major/Minor/Symettrical all types of chords? If so who invented them and why do they exists?

    Also how do they relate to the western scale? Am I right in saying that the western scale is called the Ionian scale or the Major scale? And does this major scale mean that everything has to be played in the Key of C (the tonic note for this scale)? This is all so confusing...

    Is there a relationship between the Major scale and the Major chords?

    Cheers
    Pete

  5. #5
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    To answer your q about what notes to make B I could still look this up on google but i really dont know how to work this out using the info provided. The other thing im now thinking is what if the notes im playing cover more than one octave? Does this mean I have now entered another key?

  6. #6
    Registered User Malcolm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter_heard01
    To answer your q about what notes to make B I could still look this up on google but i really dont know how to work this out using the info provided. The other thing im now thinking is what if the notes im playing cover more than one octave? Does this mean I have now entered another key?
    Key is a range of sound. When the director says; "The next song will be Go Kiss Ole Sallie, and we will do it in the key of G". The solo instruments will grab their melody notes from the G scale and the harmony instruments will grab their chords from the key of G. We use Key to indicate a range of sound, but, we would use numbers to indicate another octave, i.e. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 are the notes in first octave; 8 starts the next octave. So if a chord was a Gadd9 then you would be using notes from two octaves.

    Working this out with the chord formula you need a scale chart. something like this:
    Interval # 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7,
    Scale......C, D, E, F, G, A, B
    to make a C minor chord you find the C major scale and use the 1, b3, 5 notes or --- the 1 is the C, the 3 is the E and the formula told you you need the b3 so flat it to get Eb and the 5th is the G. All minor chords will have a flatted 3rd.

    To answer your q about what notes to make B I could still look this up on google but i really don't know how to work this out using the info provided.
    So it looks like you need a scale chart. It's attached. Check out the B major scale. The notes you need will be B-D#-F# --- yep you really need a scale chart right at first to get all the sharps and flats into the right places. Or you run that WWHWWWH formula - I'm a visual learner and like charts, help yourself.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Malcolm; 09-13-2009 at 02:02 PM.

  7. #7
    Registered User Malcolm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter_heard01
    Thanks ive been having a read through these, but i keep finding myself going in circles: I had a look at:
    http://www.smithfowler.org/music/Chord_Formulas.htm

    Are Major/Minor/Symettrical all types of chords? If so who invented them and why do they exists?
    Also how do they relate to the western scale? Am I right in saying that the western scale is called the Ionian scale or the Major scale? And does this major scale mean that everything has to be played in the Key of C (the tonic note for this scale)? This is all so confusing...

    Is there a relationship between the Major scale and the Major chords?

    Cheers
    Pete
    Who invented them, I have no idea who, some old guy hundreds, if not thousands, of years ago, just be glad he did.

    Why do they exist. We need melody - single notes and harmony - chords and rhythm to make music. Chords provide the harmony. Now a clarinet or trumpet is a solo instrument - normally only plays melody - single notes - so other instruments provide the harmony (chords) for the clarinet or trumpet. But you need both melody and harmony. Sometime your guitar will provide the melody and some time it will provide the harmony. Five years from now when Travis Picking enters your life you can provide both at the same time.

    The Western Scale (the Major scale) is made up of the following steps - WWHWWWH, run up the chromatic scale in whole steps and half steps in accordance with the WWHWWWH formula and you end up with a Major scale. Not to confuse, the minor scale has a step formula of WHWWHWW. So when we in the Western World listen to music we are used to hearing these steps - It sounds good to us so that is what we use.
    Am I right in saying that the western scale is called the Ionian scale or the Major scale? And does this major scale mean that everything has to be played in the Key of C (the tonic note for this scale)? This is all so confusing...
    Forget about calling it the Western Scale, get that out of your mind. What we do is going to be based upon the Major scale or the natural minor scale.

    Now all that mode stuff - every scale has modes - I relate that to every scale has moods. Change one note and you change the mood. Yes if you are a mode person you could call the Major scale Ionian and everyone would know what you were talking about. You could call the natural minor scale the Aeolian mode and everyone would understand what you were talking about. But, right now on your music journey do your self a favor and forget about modes, for about 6 months. The Major scale and the natural minor scale will let you play all the music you can handle right now.

    Now the Major scale does not mean that everything has to be played in the key of C. The Major scale is made up of 15 specific scale/keys, some are duplications of each other and this gives us a total of 12 usable scales. Look at that chart I attached. There is a Major scale for C, G, D, A -- Bb, Eb, etc.

    Come back with specific questions, someone will help.

    Have fun.
    Last edited by Malcolm; 09-13-2009 at 01:58 PM.

  8. #8
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter_heard01
    Thanks ive been having a read through these, but i keep finding myself going in circles:

    I had a look at:

    http://www.smithfowler.org/music/Chord_Formulas.htm

    Are Major/Minor/Symettrical all types of chords? If so who invented them and why do they exists?
    Wow - big questions! Meaning... big answers...
    Short answer:
    Chords are a result of 100s of years (at least 1000 years) of evolution of harmony, and are simply collections of notes that sound good together.
    It turns out that such collections seem to follow simple rules (eg alternate steps of a scale), but those rules come after the decision about the choice of notes, which is (was) purely done by ear.
    IOW, we play first, ask questions later!
    Quote Originally Posted by peter_heard01
    Also how do they relate to the western scale? Am I right in saying that the western scale is called the Ionian scale or the Major scale?
    The most popular western scale, yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by peter_heard01
    And does this major scale mean that everything has to be played in the Key of C (the tonic note for this scale)?
    No.
    Once upon a time, there were only the 7 natural notes (white notes of the piano): A B C D E F G. (Except pianos didn't exist then... )
    They were used in a few different "modal" configurations. (ie, with a different note as keynote.)
    Strangely, neither C nor A was a favoured keynote to begin with: only D, E, F and G were used as keynotes, making dorian, phrygian, lydian and mixolydian modes. (This was before chords as we know them existed, over 1000 years ago.)
    When C and A were introduced as alternative keynotes (Ionian and Aeolian), Ionian began to dominate, becoming "the major key". By this time, harmony was already getting quite complicated, and certain accidentals (altered notes) had been introduced (beginning with F# and Bb), to give a bit more elbow room, as it were.
    But it was some time before the octave came to be divided into 12 equal steps, meaning - at last! - a major scale (and key) could be built on each step.
    Because the major scale step structure is irregular (W-W-H-W-W-W-H), you can build that formula on any half-step and it never repeats; so we have 12 major keys, all equivalent. But (of course) each one other then C needs one or more sharps and flats to maintain the scale formula.
    Quote Originally Posted by peter_heard01
    Is there a relationship between the Major scale and the Major chords?
    Yes. (See the charts I posted on the other thread.)

    The word "major" refers, essentially, to the third step of the scale, or rather the "interval" from root to 3rd.
    The distance between the root (keynote) and the 3rd note up is either 4 half-steps (major 3rd) or 3 half-steps (minor 3rd). The difference in sound quality is very distinctive (typically described as "happy" or "sad") and governs the whole feel of the key.
    Same with chords. A "major" chord has a major 3rd, a "minor" chord has a minor 3rd. (Both have the same kind of 5th, a "perfect" 5th of 7 half-steps - so-called because 7 half-steps makes a very strong and pure-sounding interval - as in power chords! .)

    If you look at those charts I posted, you'll see how you get different chords on other scale steps, depending on the root-3rd distance (major or minor) or root-5th distance.
    Root-5th distance (the 5th interval) is a perfect 5th on all but one: the vii chord, where it's a "diminished" 5th (half-step less than perfect). Hence that chord name.

    That covers MAJOR keys! (deep breath...)

    MINOR keys are based on the vi chord of major. Eg, the A minor key uses the same notes and chords as C major, but we make A our keynote, and count everything from there. (So Am becomes "i", Bdim "ii", etc.)
    Because a minor key is weaker than its "relative" major (one with the same notes), we usually make one or two scale alterations.
    So the A minor key might sometimes have a G# note instead of G, and an E major chord instead of Em as its V.
    Last edited by JonR; 09-13-2009 at 02:47 PM.

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