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Thread: Which chords work together?

  1. #16
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Valentino View Post
    If a tendency is positive than it tends to be what our ear wants to measure from. So 1-3-5 to 6-b2-3-5 (C A7) didn't add anything positive as far as number choice. If we measured from D instead then we get b7-2-4 to 5-7-2-4 which is positive. A 5 is more complex than its 1 and so is the 7 which makes them bright positive numbers. They create a 1 that is simpler.

    We're saying close to the same thing, the positive/negative way is just more versatile yet more consistent at the same time. For instance in the key of D: A7 to D is positive, D to A7 is negative, D to C is negative, but C to A7 is positive.
    Any move can be useful, I just want to know why the sound changes.
    Understood. I've not heard those as conventional terms before. (But then I do tend to use my own unconventional terms occasionally .)

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Color of Music View Post
    Indeed! Music does have universal rules, without question, but what I find funny is trying to so hard to escape them just to be "new." Well, you do know all chords are in all keys as all keys are related from the closest to the most distant.
    Actually being unique is a part of what's need to create a reference point. Like a landmark helps us to know where we are located. Some people really go for weak to strong, which is the idea that without a strong enough contrast a tendency won't really matter. For example if I have equal amounts of repetition AABBCCAABBCC then repetition is a weak tendency. It won't really have an influence on what the reference point is. If instead we have AAAAAABCA then the last A has strong repetition that could be the reason my ear would measure from it.

    Far to close is a tendency, but so is complex to simple. I think when you're saying "Close" I'd say simple. Close to me is a 1/2 step verses an Octave. And again if Far to Close is going to have an influence there needs to be strength/contrast to it. So staying on 1/2 steps and whole steps will sound connected but Far to close will be a weak tendency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Color of Music View Post
    Doubling voices, they aren't necessarily goes when it comes to "having room," however, sometimes t's not meant to make room. Instead, it'll enhance what's in the room. I was watching a jazz piano video on YT yesterday and the pianist went through a slew of techniques - one of which consisted of doubling chords. Now, there was room for movement and thus there were some positive and negative moves, but I didn't think in those terms because even the negative moves sounded positive.

    So, if I had this:

    G (LH) G (6/4) (RH) ----> C (LH) C (Root to octave) (RH)

    Now, I may or may not personally double since I'm gonna have four C's; however, if I think that tonic needs that much enhancing. Is that what you mean? I've heard te "less is more" quote as well, but that depends on the situation and if you ear likes it.

    Note: I'm not necessarily disagreeing, I just haven't heard it put quite like you put it.
    Do you mean a G major chord in 2nd inversion for the right hand?

    Yes "less is more" is complex to simple, but we also want "bigger is better" which is thick to thin. Of course we also want "to have our cake and eat it too" which would be to have both tendencies agree with each other. So simple can backfire from being too thin, and thick can backfire from being too complex.

    So a soft, high octave could go to a low, louder octave, but a low loud dom9 chord could go to a softer higher Dom9.

    I know it's a different way of thinking, thanks for taking the time to see where I'm coming from.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by JonR View Post
    Understood. I've not heard those as conventional terms before. (But then I do tend to use my own unconventional terms occasionally .)
    Thanks JonR, I'm glad you understand. It made my day .

  4. #19
    Registered User Color of Music's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Valentino View Post
    Actually being unique is a part of what's need to create a reference point. Like a landmark helps us to know where we are located. Some people really go for weak to strong, which is the idea that without a strong enough contrast a tendency won't really matter. For example if I have equal amounts of repetition AABBCCAABBCC then repetition is a weak tendency. It won't really have an influence on what the reference point is. If instead we have AAAAAABCA then the last A has strong repetition that could be the reason my ear would measure from it.

    Far to close is a tendency, but so is complex to simple. I think when you're saying "Close" I'd say simple. Close to me is a 1/2 step verses an Octave. And again if Far to Close is going to have an influence there needs to be strength/contrast to it. So staying on 1/2 steps and whole steps will sound connected but Far to close will be a weak tendency.



    Do you mean a G major chord in 2nd inversion for the right hand?

    Yes "less is more" is complex to simple, but we also want "bigger is better" which is thick to thin. Of course we also want "to have our cake and eat it too" which would be to have both tendencies agree with each other. So simple can backfire from being too thin, and thick can backfire from being too complex.

    So a soft, high octave could go to a low, louder octave, but a low loud dom9 chord could go to a softer higher Dom9.

    I know it's a different way of thinking, thanks for taking the time to see where I'm coming from.
    No, I get it! There's this "Push/Pull" effect. And yes, I meant G (6/4) How'd you know that was what I heard despite writing it incorrectly? Oh, wait! You know my tendencies, no?

    I think we all agree that music is a balance of lots of things and sometimes one moreso than the other, but I think that that is how music is defined. What is it prone to do most often? Of course, this vari es from musician to musician, song-to-song, style/feel, mood/timbre, composer to composer and each has its own tendencies.

  5. #20
    Yes I agree Color of Music, I would just add that "tendencies" to me may be what you're referring to as "Universal Rules" and that I use "strategies" for the way a composer would utilize certain ones or even more often combine tendencies in different ways to create moods/hooks/effects.
    In my book I concentrated on short melodic phrases that could create an obvious reference point. Why the melodic phrase worked can be labeled as a "strategy".

    But obviously we're saying the same thing, I even used the words "push/pull" for awhile.

  6. #21
    Registered User Color of Music's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Valentino View Post
    Yes I agree Color of Music, I would just add that "tendencies" to me may be what you're referring to as "Universal Rules" and that I use "strategies" for the way a composer would utilize certain ones or even more often combine tendencies in different ways to create moods/hooks/effects.
    In my book I concentrated on short melodic phrases that could create an obvious reference point. Why the melodic phrase worked can be labeled as a "strategy".

    But obviously we're saying the same thing, I even used the words "push/pull" for awhile.
    I ended up in the mud and wasn't able to see! Sorry!

  7. #22
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    Scale Tone Chords

    Hi Mikeman9412! Every key has certain scale tone chords. That is, chords are built on top of each of the scale degrees. So for example, the key of G major consists of G, A, B, C, D, E and F#(F sharp). On top of each of those scale tones, a chord is built. These chords are: G, A minor, B minor, C, D, E minor and F#diminished. In fact you would have noticed that many songs you play in G use a combination of those chords.
    Last edited by music man; 02-06-2018 at 01:21 PM.

  8. #23
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    As you will learn, all Chords flow to- and from each the other, especially, but by no means limited to, Performance in the same Key... for example, in the Key of C. Play beautiful "Classical" Music dynamic phrases of single-Triad strikes... immediately after I read your post, I Performed Composed, with a Pianoforte/Strings layer: I-IV-vii... I up to IV, then IV down to vii. Part of the secret to Chord flow/progression is Chord Articulation, the combinations of the ever Changing dynamic articulations of the individual Pitches of each- and every Chord during your Performance of a Chord Progression, often changing each time you Perform the Chord Progression... for full musical effect! You will realize many Chord Progressions in Pop, Rock... Music songs on the same musical instruments of the same exact Chord Progressions often sound very different musically... for example, you can write your own Etudes of single Chord Progressions of Chord Articulations of the same Chord! ...you will be surprised at the ease with which you can Perform Melodies as Chord Progressions with Performance of the Pitches of the Melodies as the Chord fundamentals, the fundamental Pitches of the Chords... Chord Inversions... Chord Forms... yes, you can Substitute Chords of Chord Progressions with Chord Inversions, Chord Forms... and, Substitute with more than one Substitution, sequentially, for example, you can Perform the most Popular Chord Progression in Popular Music, the I-IV-V, the Chords in Ascending Order, as: I in Root Position, IV as 2nd Inversion, and V as 1st Inversion... then as I in the Root Position, then as 2nd Inversion, then as 1st Inversion to IV in Root Position, then as 2nd Inversion, then as 1st Inversion, to V in the Root Position, then as 2nd Inversion, then as 1st Inversion... and a beautiful "Classical" Music finish down to vii, 1st Inversion, up to I, 1st Inversion, up to iii, 1st Inversion, then down to I, 1st Inversion! ...you can even Perform your favorite Chord Progressions with Inversions of the Chords for Variation! For your Chord harmonizations, Triads in two consecutive Octaves from above Middle C are awesome... you can even add the 7th to the same Triad in the higher of the two consecutive Octaves... then Perform slow-medium Tempo ascending-/descending... Scale Runs with "Classical" Music dynamic phrasing... Perform every Arpeggio-Partial Arpeggio-Arpeggiated Arpeggio... with "Classical" Music performance dynamic articulations for "Classical" Music sounding rhythmic-pitch articulations! ...and, the same Chords in non-consecutive Octaves, for example separated by two Octaves... with two Octaves in between the same Triad in two different Octaves at the same Time sounds AWESOME! ...and, with one Triad in the lowest Octave/s possible to sound the Triad, you can Perform the higher-Octave Triad, at the same Time, one Scale step higher or lower than the Triad in the lower Octave, 2-3... Octaves lower, referred to as DISTANCE in Music Theory: good for Performance of any two Melodies at the same Time, too, as you know from JS Bach Inventions and Sinfonias, and Progressive Rock Bands! Remember to Perform Counterpoint with Chord harmonizations against Chords, and with Chords against Chords as with Performance of Block Chords!
    Last edited by PRJ Sokolich; 08-20-2019 at 02:25 AM.

  9. #24
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    There is no wrong voicing of chords in a chord progression, only wrong chord - dynamic - articulation of the individual chord tones (individual pitches of the chords).

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