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Thread: The guitar solo scale

  1. #16
    chewing bubble gum Chim_Chim's Avatar
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    Ewoks are funny when you set them on fire.
    Some days I seem to do OK. Other days I feel like just shoving an M-80 right up my guitar's butt.

  2. #17
    Registered User ragasaraswati's Avatar
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    The pentatonic scale (as in diatonic scale, with its modes blah, blah...) is wholly overrated. The case is not the scale but the playing behind it. Playing a pentatonic on a guitar opens new doors cause of bending in comparison with playing pentatonics on a piano which is more challenging to bring the same "feeling".

    Also, the pentatonics cut to the core. Are the essence of a tonality (in a loose sence) major, minor or neutral (the other two pentatonics without a thirk minus the one without a fifth which cannot stand as a scale/tonality, think locrian) meaning they are the backbone of the diatonic scale which expands on it and ads tension and flavor with two semitones.

    My idea of establishment of tonality (a tone dominates, no more no less) from the absolutely necessary to the point of breaking up:

    Fifth --> Arrpegios --> Pentatonics --> 7-tone scales --> chromatics

    As I demonstrated pentatonics are at the center of tonality, not as obvious and bland (if used constantly) as arrpegios, and more "focused" than diatonics and certainly not as wandering as chromatics.

    Pentatonics are a crowd pleaser. And so much applicable to anything. Listen to Chinese classical music. Pentatonics. Listen to blues. Same foundation, very different route.

    Less is more. Pentatonic melodies over diatonic chord changes are the catchiest. Pentatonic soloing AND "felt" phrasing is the scale of solos.

    Last-minute-edit: Think of bending as the make-up for tension absence inherent in pentatonics.
    Last edited by ragasaraswati; 06-03-2009 at 11:02 PM.

  3. #18
    Artistically Bankrupt
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    I can speak for nobody else, but discussion of fingering patterns excites me so much that it would take a 5-pound bag of kitty litter to handle what happens in my pants any time my eye catches a glimpse of the ubiquitious black dot patterns. Then, of course, I realize that I just used the word "ubiquitious" conversationally and I scurry back into my cave.
    "If a child learns which is jay and which is sparrow, he'll no longer see birds nor hear them sing."

  4. #19
    Bedroom metalurgist LaughingSkull's Avatar
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    Monotonic scales are more pure than pentatonic!

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaughingSkull
    Monotonic scales are more pure than pentatonic!
    I've been experimenting with the "No Note" scale, sometimes called the zero scale. But it seems impossible even to play the first note ... I suppose I need to practice it more.

    I tried it on guitar. But it was just the same when I put the guitar down ... still no notes. That gave me the idea of not playing it on piano, which seemed sensible since I don't have a piano. Surprisingly that worked just as well as not on guitar, even though I've never played piano before.

    It's a very nice scale though, and used in all forms of music (where the rests are shown).

    I'm now going to lay down quietly in a darkened room .

    Ian.

  6. #21
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crossroads
    I've been experimenting with the "No Note" scale, sometimes called the zero scale. But it seems impossible even to play the first note ... I suppose I need to practice it more.

    I tried it on guitar. But it was just the same when I put the guitar down ... still no notes. That gave me the idea of not playing it on piano, which seemed sensible since I don't have a piano. Surprisingly that worked just as well as not on guitar, even though I've never played piano before.

    It's a very nice scale though, and used in all forms of music (where the rests are shown).

    I'm now going to lay down quietly in a darkened room .

    Ian.
    I think John Cage invented that one...

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonR
    I think John Cage invented that one...
    Did he!?

    Actually I think I might do better with it if I take an ear training course. You know ... maybe my ear is not tuned to "hear" the right colours. Probably be better if I pay $400 to Lucas Burge.

    Hmm, that reminds me - I once went to a Brian Eno concert which was exactly like that, all from the no-notes scale. To be fair, he didn't actually turn up, and we all drifted off to the pub instead. But after a deep philosophical discussion it was agreed that Eno never intended to appear & in fact that was the performance ... very good concert actually, if a little quiet.

    Ian.

  8. #23
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    ...why does everyone sound like me? Damnit. Now I have to treat music theory with august seriousness to recreate equilibrium.
    "If a child learns which is jay and which is sparrow, he'll no longer see birds nor hear them sing."

  9. #24

    Arrow Minor penatonic



    Each red notation indicates the same note (E# in this case)
    This indicates which key the finger pattern is in.



    Zero scale?
    Last edited by Laridar; 06-08-2009 at 10:44 PM.

  10. #25
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laridar


    Each red notation indicates the same note (E# in this case)
    E#? Why not F?

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laridar


    Each red notation indicates the same note (E# in this case)
    This indicates which key the finger pattern is in.



    Zero scale?
    Laridar - your pentatonic scale is the first scale which beginners learn. It's the very first thing I teach to 12 year olds who have never held a guitar before.

    That doesn't mean it's not a great scale. But it does mean everyone here has known about it and used it for decades.

    If you have questions about it, then by all means ask us.

    Cheers, .

    Ian.

  12. #27
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crossroads
    Did he!?

    Actually I think I might do better with it if I take an ear training course. You know ... maybe my ear is not tuned to "hear" the right colours. Probably be better if I pay $400 to Lucas Burge.

    Hmm, that reminds me - I once went to a Brian Eno concert which was exactly like that, all from the no-notes scale. To be fair, he didn't actually turn up, and we all drifted off to the pub instead. But after a deep philosophical discussion it was agreed that Eno never intended to appear & in fact that was the performance ... very good concert actually, if a little quiet.

    Ian.
    Hey, now you're really getting into the swing of Conceptual Art, Ian!
    There was (still is in fact) an artist called Robert Barry who once put on a show in 1969 (in three different cities no less). The show consisted of a notice on the door of the gallery saying "The gallery will be closed for the duration of the exhibition". It did indeed remain locked for the 3 advertised weeks.
    It was all about art as idea (concept), as something the viewer creates for themselves in their minds. When you see a painting (or whatever), you make your own interpretation of what it means, which may have no relation to what the artist intended. So why not just let the viewer imagine the whole thing?
    http://www.frieze.com/issue/review/robert_barry/
    (And of course I'm only guessing myself that that was what Barry intended - see, it works!)

    This inspired me to start a band called "Closed Tonight". It was no surprise when nobody came to our gigs...

    (Of course, once they got wind of us, people started turning up optimistically to all kinds of closed venues... Hey, damn that would have been a great idea! Shame I never actually REALLY did it. It was just a CONCEPT after all... )
    Last edited by JonR; 06-09-2009 at 09:37 AM.

  13. #28

    Exclamation Taking into consideration

    Quote Originally Posted by Crossroads
    Laridar - your pentatonic scale is the first scale which beginners learn. It's the very first thing I teach to 12 year olds who have never held a guitar before.

    That doesn't mean it's not a great scale. But it does mean everyone here has known about it and used it for decades.

    If you have questions about it, then by all means ask us.

    Cheers, .

    Ian.
    Ian,

    I can see your point in noting this as a beginning scale, as it is one. Referring to your comment above, I actually did learn this pattern when I was twelve, however, posting this I am taking into consideration the fact that someone searching online for music theory may preferably be delighted to find an easy, fun sounding scale to plug in their electric and get excited about rather than hearing multiple complicated terms that they don't understand.

    "But it does mean everyone here has known about it and used it for decades."

    We must realize that everyone here has not been here for decades, me being one. This pattern was the single most exciting thing that propelled my first leap into music theory at a young age.

    Thank you,
    Laridar
    Last edited by Laridar; 06-09-2009 at 01:42 PM.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonR
    This inspired me to start a band called "Closed Tonight". It was no surprise when nobody came to our gigs...
    Ahh, well I was one of fans that didn't come to your gigs. You see, that was deliberate on our part ... it's what real fans do in appreciation of that sort of art.

    More seriously for a moment - I seem to recall various artists doing things like submitting a blank canvas ... or even no canvas at all, but just an empty space on the gallery wall.

    Same applies to my guitar playing - all those things people think are "mistakes", well ... they are all deliberate! ... it's part of the very clever artistry (also saves me x-thousand hours trying get the damned thing right).

    But if it comes to that, what was 70's Punk about? Some of those bands could play a bit ... but others definitely could not (hardly a single note, and nothing in key). But now people often think of it as musically important.

    Ian.



    Last edited by Crossroads; 06-09-2009 at 03:51 PM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laridar
    Ian,

    I can see your point in noting this as a beginning scale, as it is one. Referring to your comment above, I actually did learn this pattern when I was twelve, however, posting this I am taking into consideration the fact that someone searching online for music theory may preferably be delighted to find an easy, fun sounding scale to plug in their electric and get excited about rather than hearing multiple complicated terms that they don't understand.

    "But it does mean everyone here has known about it and used it for decades."

    We must realize that everyone here has not been here for decades, me being one. This pattern was the single most exciting thing that propelled my first leap into music theory at a young age.

    Thank you,
    Laridar
    Sure. It's a great scale. But everyone here already knows about it.

    It would look rather silly if I made a new thread to announce that electric guitars need electricity. That's all.

    Ian.
    Last edited by Crossroads; 06-21-2009 at 05:40 AM.

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