Welcome!
Just a few a ground rules first...

Promotion, advertising and link building is not permitted.

If you are keen to learn, get to grips with something with the willing help of one of the net's original musician forums
or possess a genuine willingness to contribute knowledge - you've come to the right place!

Register >

- Close -
Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: What is this called? And how do I learn more!

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    266

    What is this called? And how do I learn more!



    Ok bear with me...I am new to this whole idea. Basically I am getting into superimposing triads/chords. Ok...look at the Blue box...that is the main Triad of C major, CEG. Now...lets say my bass player was playing a C...I could use an Eminor triad/chord to get the sound of Cmaj7 as indicated by the red box. Furthermore, If the rest of the band was playing just a Cmaj chord, I could play a B diminished chord (BDF) over it to make it sound like Cmaj11 I guess.

    Now...I am going to try and do this with all the chords and just work at it for a while, but is there any other ideas you guys can add or anything else I should keep in mind while working on this? any GOOD books on this subject that are very comprehensive and show application of this stuff?

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    33
    hmmmm....i like that little chart.

    *saves it to computer*

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    266
    haha yeah I harmonize major scales in my spare time

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    33
    seriously, that's hugely helpfull. i'm way more of a visual thinker than an abstract thinker....so charts like this are what i need.

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    266
    no problem

    dude...check out www.jamstudio.com

    I created a study of this technique (triad superimposition)

    and you can try it here

    http://www.jamstudio.com/Studio/FWSo...9&SongId=64319

    Basically...over the C Bass line I am using an Eminor triad

    ------7----
    ----8------
    --9--------
    -----------
    -----------
    -----------

    If I use an E minor scale over a Cmaj7, I get a lydian sound because E minor has a #4 (F#) and C lydian is just C major scale with #4...so yeah...

    over the G bass note in the C/G progression , I am using a B minor arpeggio,

    ------
    ----7- F#
    --7--- D
    -9---- B
    ------
    ------

    which gives me a Gmaj7 type sound...I think...

    Anyway....

    I'm still new to this, so take it easy on me if I am wrong JonR
    lol

  6. #6
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Twickenham, UK
    Posts
    4,959
    Quote Originally Posted by Teletubby
    I'm still new to this, so take it easy on me if I am wrong JonR
    lol
    Hehe...

    Just keep using your ears...
    You'll find one or two of those superimposed triads don't always work...

    (Eg, "Cmaj11" - have you tried it?)

  7. #7
    bitter old fool Jed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    1,417
    One way to use these is to play comp'ing patterns that utilize the various triads. Of course if you look a bit deeper, you'll see your chart is just the diatonic triads arranged relative to different scale degrees.

    As super-impositions (harmonic application) you have to stay cognizant of the available extensions relative to each chord function. But as comp'ing patterns (melodic application) you can move through the notes that are not available as chord extensions and consider them passing tones relative to harmonized lines.

    As arpeggios, these kinds of things can add a new twist to your sound, without sounding overly bright and inside

    At any rate this is way deep into "Note Geek" territory, so be ready to take some guff from the less-academically inclined. ;-)

    cheers,

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    33
    Quote Originally Posted by Teletubby
    no problem

    dude...check out www.jamstudio.com
    holy god! that's amazing. wow....definitely will be trying this out/

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    258
    Quote Originally Posted by avedic
    holy god! that's amazing. wow....definitely will be trying this out/
    Hi , you could try an open(spread-out ) chord in key'C' major the chord is CMaj7th-a 4 note chord... In open form 'C' is the root''G' is the next note up, then the 7th 'B' is the next note up! the last note is the10th note up from the root-'E'! I'm sorry I do not have the P.C skills to construct a series of cute wee boxes like you have!, so-o-o I'll do it this way instead It is easier using a k/board because the whole exercise is played on only the White notes you simply advance diatonically Up or down the scale /keys as far as you like or until you are repeating the whole thing-- that is , you advance in parallel (each of the four notes ) is moved up producing different chords, as well as inversions of the original chord'CMaj7'this produces some very interesting effects especially if you switch to a different chord or chords just for the sake of variety, but it could be very difficult on guitar 'Cos you can't 'see' the positions
    leegordo

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by avedic View Post
    hmmmm....i like that little chart.

    *saves it to computer*
    lol, 5 years late, but what chart are you guys talking about?

  11. #11
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Twickenham, UK
    Posts
    4,959
    Quote Originally Posted by estop View Post
    lol, 5 years late, but what chart are you guys talking about?
    Well, they've all moved on now. Apart from me, obviously... (and I think Jed may still be around.)

    I don't remember the chart, but it seems to have been just a list of diatonic triads, for superimposing on other chords (or bass notes) to get extended chords.
    It's based on the concept that chords are built in 3rds - in theory all the way up to the 13th extension: 1-3-5-7-9-11-13. (The whole scale in two octaves, alternate steps.)
    Any group of 3 notes from that series is a triad chord from the key. Eg, in C major, the series from C is C E G B D F A. The chords in C major are:
    C = C E G
    Dm = D F A
    Em = E G B
    F = F A C
    G = G B D
    Am = A C E
    Bdim = B D F

    To get extended versions of any of those chords, therefore, we can just add - superimpose - one of the later (higher) triads.
    Eg, if we add a G triad on top of a C triad we get C E G B D = Cmaj9 (C with a major 7th and 9th).

    The problem is this doesn't work on all the chords. There are what's known as "avoid notes", which is what happens when a note is added a minor 9th above a lower one (ie an octave plus a half-step). In this key, this happens whenever a C is added on top of a chord with a B in it, or an F is added on top of a chord with an E in it.
    So if we add a Bdim triad on top of a C triad, we get C E G B D F - and the F forms a nasty-sounding interval with the E below.
    That's why you never see a "Cmaj11" chord in practice: the 11th (F) is always omitted.
    (If you do see an "11" chord, assume the 3rd is missing, which removes the offending sound by omitting the lower note of the interval. Eg, "G11" = G D F A C (1 5 7 9 11). The B is missing, to avoid the clash with the C. This chord is more correctly known as "G9sus4", or "Dm7/G".)

    In short, it wasn't a very useful chart - IMO - because (IIRC) it didn't deal with these important exceptions.
    You could easily make your own very similar chart, but the important thing is to understand the "tertian" principle (building chords from alternate scale steps), along with the exceptions, the extensions not normally used.
    To make your own fretboard chart of the triad shapes, of course you need to know how to find the right notes. But then, if you don't know that, it's far more important to work out how to do that than it is to actually have the chart! (Never learn scale patterns or chord shapes without also learning the notes involved.)
    Last edited by JonR; 11-13-2013 at 10:52 AM.

  12. #12
    Thank You JonR

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •