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Thread: Perfect Pitch

  1. #31
    JazzNerd gersdal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKRuss
    PP is impressive, but I can't think of a practical application other than impressing other people.

    "Hey sing Bb!"
    "ok, Hmmmmmmm"
    "wow"

    and...?

    LOL.
    You'll also save a few pounds on guitar tuners

  2. #32
    Modbod UKRuss's Avatar
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    Now that is a practical application...

    Fortunately my Macbook tunes my guitars for me, lights my pipe, fetches my slippers and cheers me at every turn.

  3. #33
    SubterraneanHomesickAlien DuB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrockman
    this is really a wrong conception , for a pro musician ,Yes I mean PRO
    the same melody in the different tune is totaly different thing
    No it absolutely is not. It's the same thing, in a different key. People transpose songs and melodies to different keys all the time, for all sorts of reasons (though mainly to accomodate a singer). A "PRO" should know this.
    Quote Originally Posted by jrockman
    and ur RP cant help u to remeber the tune until u get home and play instrument
    And perfect pitch does? Wrong! Perfect pitch is the ability to recognize what note a given pitch is, NOT the ability to perfectly remember anything you ever hear. If you really want to remember a melody, you write it down, period. Whether you write "B, D, F#, B" or "1, b3, 5, 1" is irrelevant. The key is completely arbitrary and can/will be easily transposed.
    Quote Originally Posted by jrockman
    all the advantage u mention about RP in ur reply ,think about it
    can PP do the samething?
    No, it cannot. This has already been addressed in the thread. Having perfect pitch makes it easier to learn good relative pitch, but perfect pitch in itself is not the same as relative pitch, nor does it provide the same benefits.
    Quote Originally Posted by jrockman
    by the way Im good in RP , but always feel depressed about using RP

    everytime I write dwon it and went back to home , Im sure the melody is correct, but feeling its not there anymore, due to the wrong tune of the melody , it just different from the original one
    So you're saying that the melody that you write down is different from the one you heard in your head? Well then I guess your relative pitch is not so good after all!

  4. #34
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    Perfect pitch is the ability to recognize what note a given pitch is,
    I have it on good authority that you labor under the same misconception as myself.
    "If a child learns which is jay and which is sparrow, he'll no longer see birds nor hear them sing."

  5. #35
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    Hi

    i don't understand, I play by ear, and friends ask me "how do I know which notes to come in on with impro ?"

    i also was asked by a piano teacher at a first lesson, "how I did that!?" when she plucked a note from inside the piano's lid and asked me to play it on the keyboard, and my figers went to it like I knew the distance, and it was correct !

    i guess i have an understanding of the spacial and sound of a instrument, my old accordion teacher said he only met two people in his life with the ear I have and the first was me and the next my nephew !

    The piano teacher actually shouted at me as she was an old fashioned teacher and said I could have been a phenomena of my parents got me lessons as a kid, as she knows I had accordion lessons and gave them up as didn't like it, and then was never allowed a guitar or piano lessons till my 'old age' thus missing out on a musical career.....guess.

    She also said I leart stuff really fast, and my accordion etacher said i'd learn stuff in a lesson others had trouble learning in a month, I'd go home and then practice 5 minutes before the lesson the week later, and he'd say i was amazing and I didn't have the nerve to tell him i never practiced....

    Guess it's a natural thing and speed learning must mean I just can identify notes....i am a f**king bad player as haven't played in 5 eyras as had a breakdown and if I didn't could have been really good now, but am 35, and want to be a great guitarist, but guess my ability is also in imaginatio and creativity as suffer from OCD and this gives me music in my head, I hear masterpieces in my mind like I am 'channelling music' from some demons or God !!! bloody weird, but it's not me, just something out there !

    Anyway have I any hopes of catching up on a lost 20 years.....guess if I can learn so fast and make music effortlessly, i could have a chance, even if I will be 40 or more by the time I settle down and be in a good stride of bands and giggs.....but is it all hope lost for me, and should I just forget the talent people out there dream of and never see in a lifetime, or should I just use it and hope to get my music out there....

    i don't do it for me, I just feel I must do it for the music as if God gave me this ability, surely it was for a reason and must be done for the music as I am like a steward looking after a gift......

    sorry to sound arrogant, i am not, but since nobody knows me, and just needed to be frankly to lay it on the line, what can be done about it guys !?!?
    Even started playing Mozart and complex stuff in a few months with the piano teacher, but left and haven't played for a year as she kept arguing with me and cussing my parents saying they were irresponsible and neglected my talent etc, and cussed me saying I could have been one of the greatest composers if I started young and kept telling me I was too old etc, so I ditched her as I don't believe age is anything abd, she was 80 and could play amazingly, but then her reply was that the muscles of the fingers can't develop well after a certain age, which is nonsense....

    i can't be done with people like that !

  6. #36
    Did I say that out loud ? joeyd929's Avatar
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    I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by Blutwulf
    I have seen the topic pop up in enough threads here that I thought I'd start a single one to get an answer.

    Of what value is perfect pitch recognition? That is, of what value is it for one to hear a note and then announce, "that was an A below middle C"?

    People carry on about perfect pitch as if it were some sort of Holy Grail of musicianship (tell that to Beethoven... loudly...). What does one gain with it? The ability to tune or otherwise pitch an instrument?

    Perfect relative pitch is far more useful, if you ask me. That is, knowing the interval between two notes. I have never discovered a real benefit to singular pitch recognition. Tell me what I am missing.
    I agree..relative pitch is just as important, if not more important. I would love to have perfect picth but relative pitch is more usefull from day to day..

    I always thought relative pitch was when you throw a baseball at your cousin..heh heh
    Last edited by joeyd929; 07-12-2007 at 01:01 PM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyd929
    I agree..relative pitch is just as important, if not more important. I would love to have perfect picth but relative pitch is more usefull from day to day..

    I always thought relative pitch was when you throw a baseball at your cousin..heh heh
    yeah relative pitch is what makes you improvise well and know a melody in your head down to instrument !!!

  8. #38
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    I feel a mixed blessing/curse because for me if I know or think or transcribe a melodic line, I find myself sub-vocalizing the notes...

    National Anthem? -- G EC E G C.... E DC E F# G...
    Would? -- EF#F#F# F#EEE F#G G G.... GG E EEG EE E...
    Dixie? -- GECC CDEFGG GE AAA... GA... GAGABCDE...CGC...GEG...DEC...

    It's like mumbling to yourself all the time ... it is a curse because it really restricts free flow... the right brain can only really flow after either lots of practice with a certain piece, or lots of, err, "creative" stimuli like drinking and "stuff"

    Since I've mostly been a rock bass player, having good music theory and relative pitch allowed me to pick up songs off the radio quicker. At jam sessions I was a "natural" because I could watch the guitar player, anticipate where he was going, and all the while have enough headroom to improvise some really impressive lines and grooves even though I never met any of the musicians beforehand.

    To answer the original poster's question on what good Perfect Pitch does for you... for me it is like a Holy Grail... at least I think it will be. I'm taking Burge's courses now. Even though he has lots of disclaimers in his course like it won't improve your ability to stay better in tune as a singer or instrumentalist, I'm hoping that it will at least give me instant recognition of what key a song is in.

    From there, relative pitch can take over so that in any situation where I need to be "ready to go", I can get on with the creativity without having to wait for the technical.... sight-reading... picking up a song off the radio or from a CD from another musician... tuning the guitar or bass away from a reference pitch... singing better in tune... riffing and hitting notes better in tune... actually, just better recognition of being flat or sharp in general... (aside from being a hopeful singer, I'm also a trombonist and fretless bassist... needing an acute sense of pitch will help LOADS here...)

    Eventually, I even hope it will allow me to better appreciate/participate in "microtonal" tunings, like a just A Capella group, 53-edo, Arabic and Indian music, etc...

    /ramble off

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash
    However, i dont know where people get the idea they can develop it from. You cant. Its a genetic thing, to do with how your memory works. You can, however learn relative pitch. Not as useful as perfect pitch (as you can do everything with relative pitch, without the need for a starting pitch as a guide) but is still very useful.
    I have no flippin' idea if I have it. I do know this - I was basically blind up until about the age of 4, and my mind had to be doing SOMETHING. And I loved a lot of my Dad's classical music, and my Dad was a real musical wierdo - to give you an idea, he was into classical, the oud, revi shenkar before he became cool, and the early electronic music. Anyone remember that really awful high-speed version of Bach's music done on electric guitar with a really cheesy organ solo in the middle? Well, I had that sucker memorized, in my head. I still do. If I tried messing around on the piano we had, I got yelled at. The guitar I finally got after a massive nagging campaign at about age 10 was unplayable - some Sears horror with cheese slicers for strings. If I tried to play one of the ukes we had around, again yelled at for making noise. So, while I loved music I had to keep it inside. And if I heard a song I liked, it might be a week before I'd hear it again so I worked VERY HARD inside my head to record it perfectly so I could listen to it inside my head. No one knew I was doing it, so no one could yell at me. It sounds weird saying this but it was really hard work, but all inside my head in secret, in class, at the bus stop, walking places, etc. I'd get pissed off at myself if I could remember it but in the wrong, though related, key. Over years I got so I could store stuff (music) in my head pretty well. By the time I got my own radio, at about age 17, I was good enough at it to almost make the radio superfluous.

    But here's the wierd stuff: No. 1, when my older sis was playing Simon & Garfunkel records, one day I was at the beach and so happy, the song "feelin' groovy" started playing OUT LOUD as far as I could tell! I had a good auditory hallucination going, I'm guessing, and it was dead on perfect. It was the most freakin' cool, blissful, experiences of my childhood. But it was like my brain was a tape recorder, able to record and play back at will, assuming I could push the right mental switches to call it up. And that's what a lot of my "mental training" that no one knew I was doing, was all about. Being able to record and play at will. So, now, I can play a song in my head, then call it up on line or something, and it's dead on. Not a related key, it's just like my mental sound track just jumped onto my computer or whatever, without being sharp or flat. Also, my Dad remarked once about a friend of his who was a composer so he could sing or play "just the oboe" part, and that got me interested in picking out the separate lines in music, and lo and behold, I can do that. It's interesting and fun. But it gets wierder. Not only with your Ginsu knife do you get... OK LOL... I took some violin lessons, and the teacher says "play a scale" and so I play one. Well, on violin you have to know where you are to do that, but I was able to tell where I was. OK a little sharpness and flatness here and there, which I had to adjust out, but it ain't that hard. And not hard to play by ear either, in fact too easy for me if you asked my teacher lol - but he had me learning to read the "bugs" too, which is the part that amazes ME - that I might be able to read music if I work at it. And playing stuff was pretty easy, I just sing it first to make sure, then play it. The violin was rented and finances made me drop the lessons, which is too bad. I should have bought the fiddle and just learned off of the net. But, no fiddle now, and I *do* have a guitar.....

    So, it all comes down to, Do I have perfect pitch? Hell if I know! Is it developed or genetic? Does it happen if the brain, early on, develops a certain way? I think a lot of this is interesting, just like why some people can do hellacious big long number multiplications in their head. Or why some people can ride motocross really well. But ultimately it all comes down to having fun, at whatever level we are.

    I do know this: Music is one of the few things humans do that aren't just flat-out harmful and evil. Chew on that one for a while! And music feels like the biggest hand in the world petting the biggest cat around and the cat's loving it, and the cat is you.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blutwulf
    I have seen the topic pop up in enough threads here that I thought I'd start a single one to get an answer.

    Of what value is perfect pitch recognition? That is, of what value is it for one to hear a note and then announce, "that was an A below middle C"?

    People carry on about perfect pitch as if it were some sort of Holy Grail of musicianship (tell that to Beethoven... loudly...). What does one gain with it? The ability to tune or otherwise pitch an instrument?

    Perfect relative pitch is far more useful, if you ask me. That is, knowing the interval between two notes. I have never discovered a real benefit to singular pitch recognition. Tell me what I am missing.
    leegordo here, totally agree with blutwulf.I posted the exact same opinion about P.Pitch, and asked the same questions about it, but nobody anywhere posted any answers as to what advantage having P.P.is to the practical side of making music. I hope someone out there can tell me their reasons for wanting to develope P.P.

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