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Thread: A rant: Things that can make ya mad

  1. #31
    realizing dreams
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisJ
    . If you download my music without paying for it, I'm going to have to steal food to feed my daughter.
    Or take some money from your mutual fund you've been talking about in your article

    I agree with you that stealing sucks but some albums are just so expensive, the last one I wanted to buy costed 40 dollars! This makes me sad because I'd really love to support my favorite artists and it makes me happy to own the original.

    Currently I have to work like 3 hours to afford one CD which is why I only buy those that blow me away, and If I have a copy of Justin Timberlakes "Justified" I'm sure he will not starve
    I think filesharing has pros and cons, but real music lovers will always support their artists.
    Last edited by Padawan; 06-09-2007 at 05:01 PM.

  2. #32
    IbreatheMusic Author ChrisJ's Avatar
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    Both Eric and Doug are right. I am not a music business hater like a lot of musicians and just think that artists have to be able to do the math in order to make logical decisions.

    People bitch and complain about the record labels but all in all, they are ones taking the biggest risk, more so than the artist. Think about it, they pay for the recording and for promotion and give the artist a cash advance. Maybe 5-6 hundred grand. It is true, they expect the artist to pay it back. If they can't they may go after you to get the money. But artists usually file for personal bankruptcy and leave the bill with the label. Sucks for the artist and will most likely ruin his career but in the end the label ends up losing the money.

    The thing that is questionable about the recording contract is that even after the artist pays back the recording fees, the label still owns the master. That is the problem I have with a recording contract.

    It is all in the contract so I don't really believe the "poor musician, getting taken advantage of" thing.

    I fly all the time and find it easy to compare the airline business to the music business; everybody complains about flying: too crowded, not enough bathrooms, business class is too expensive, etc.. but all said and done, airlines can't make ends meet, they are always filing chapter 11. Same with the record business, everyone hates them but they are not making any money.

    Is it better to do it yourself or do it with the help of a label? Depends on who you are and how much you are willing to do yourself. Doing it yourself you can make about ten bucks a CD, but you will have to pay for the recording yourself, do your own promotion. A lot of artists don't have the business smarts.

    Back to downloads, it doesn't matter, if you download illegally, you are a thief. I have nothing against people downloading from iTunes and burning a CD for their car or even giving it to their friends. Just like people buying records and making cassettes. The fact that CDs are expensive so downloading is okay doesn't work for me. It is like saying a BMW is expensive so I will steal one, after all BMW has enough money.

    -CJ

  3. #33
    Artistically Bankrupt
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    It is petty theft, and that is the problem. It is what causes it to be an emotional issue (God knows few people approach it with reasoning).

    It is so petty from an individual standpoint, that most people are surprised and angered at being labeled as pilfering swine. They feel that wealthy businessmen are calling them scum over the theft of a handful of pennies.

    As an illustration, imagine some guy grabbing a grape in the grocery store as he shopped, only to turn the corner where he is greeted by the FBI, lawyers, the store owner who called in the troops, and the media. That grape-nabber would wonder why in the Hell so much was being made over a freaking grape. (If he were irrational or childish, he might blame the store owner for making the grapes so easy to steal.)

    What if that grocery store owner had to see thousands of grapes nabbed every day? What is petty theft on an individualized level is grand larceny in the aggregate. Only, it is rare that one person is responsible for that many grapes.

    Few of us would argue that it is okay to steal someone's car. But then, cars cost a lot. It isn't all that petty. But many of us readily forgive ourselves for stealing something minor (the best part of a Western upbringing, really).

    I have downloaded (pirated) a lot of copyrighted music. I do not seek to justify it to myself, and I do not call it anything other than petty theft. I sleep okay, though, but then, I am a butthole. On the other hand, I can easily see why copyright holders are upset at the wanton pillaging of their intellectual property.

    We can't all pull together long enough to keep 250,000 kids from starving to death each week globally. I have pretty severe doubts that we'll all knock off piracy long enough for a more stable model to be built.
    "If a child learns which is jay and which is sparrow, he'll no longer see birds nor hear them sing."

  4. #34
    IbreatheMusic Author ChrisJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blutwulf
    We can't all pull together long enough to keep 250,000 kids from starving to death each week globally. I have pretty severe doubts that we'll all knock off piracy long enough for a more stable model to be built.
    If I agreed to pay 10 percent of my earnings to a charity for starving kids worldwide, would you download my music and pay for the download?

    -CJ

  5. #35
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    Wouldn't matter at all if I did. 1,000 others would just wait and download a free copy of your music.

    That is my point. I don't think I am being overly cynical when I assert that the listening public will never stop as long as the theft is petty on an individualized level. I'll let the reality of the current rate of illegal downloading stand testament to my point.

    Is it wrong? Yep. Is it harmful to the industry? Yes, contrary to those who imagine otherwise. Does it screw you out of royalty? Yes. Should we all do it? Nope. Would the world be a better place if we stopped, and distributors could start moving product other than Breitney or Madonna? I think so. Wouldn't it be nice to see Juergenson records in a record store again? Yep.

    But is it stopping any time soon? No. (I think you misread my last post, by the way.)
    "If a child learns which is jay and which is sparrow, he'll no longer see birds nor hear them sing."

  6. #36
    IbreatheMusic Author ChrisJ's Avatar
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    We pretty much see eye to eye actually. I agree piracy isn't going away. While big record business must be ranting and raving about digital technology, the same technology has been great to me. Oh I imagine that there are people who have my music that downloaded it for free somewhere but they are the minority I assume. The simple fact that I am not associated with Warner or Sony makes people want to buy a CD or pay for the download. As I mentioned magnatune lets people pick the price of the download of my CD. 5-18 dollars, and there are people who pay 18, actually more people pay 18 than the minimum 5. And I think that sometimes giving away a free song is also a good way to promote. If you asked me to e-mail you a free mp3, I would send it to you without hesitation.

    My point about me donating a part of sales to a charity was simply a statement on how consumers and artists could work together to help the unfortunate. Pretty good idea I think..

    -Chris

  7. #37
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    Oh, Hell yeah. There are a million great ideas. Only, they're frequently wasted on a million self-interested people.

    I used to be some sort of love-thy-neighbor cavalier complete with aspirations of uniting Man for the Common Good and derams of seeing us all pull together to end hunger, disease, misery, and Rosie O'Donnell's career. All of the standard "higher purpose" notions, really.

    I lost. When it is you against the world, put every penny on the world. The place is filled with 6,000,000,000 weenies who, when push comes to shove, couldn't care less if you live or die. With that sort of attitude, the angst over the decision to steal or not steal something worth pennies is quickly resolved...

    The only thing about threads like this that really interests me is the degree of laughable sophistry people will barf up in justification for their hatred of the Evil Corporations, and justification for their petty crimes. Lockean theories of intangible goods and their measure against music files' fair use rarely pop up on these threads. But, like I said, the crime is so petty on an individualized level that it becomes an emotional issue rather than rational.
    "If a child learns which is jay and which is sparrow, he'll no longer see birds nor hear them sing."

  8. #38
    Registered User Obivion's Avatar
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    Blutwulf, I think your being a little cynical. If even a few people bother to pay for records, its going to help some of the poorer artists make a living.

    I try not to take others music and pay for most of what I listen to. However, tabs/sheet music in my mind is a different issue entirely.
    No one sings the blues quite like Yngwie!

  9. #39
    Since 1988 Carvinite's Avatar
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    Why do you feel that tabluture/sheet music is totally different? Im not being sarcastic, I just don't understand why you would think it would be different.

  10. #40
    Registered User Obivion's Avatar
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    Very often, the "official" tab books are not written by the musicians themselves and they have errors in. I don't see why I should pay money for a sub par product. Also, tabs/ sheet music aren't really practical to use for artists such as Steve Vai, or Satriani where there's like 20 pages of tab for one song (and there isn't enough time to turn the pages), I mean the "Passion and Warfare" book was like 200 pages long! Programs such as powertab have a great advantage here.
    The other thing is some of the more obscure bands don't have tab books and the only way to find tabs is on the internet. In my mind, its better to spend money on gigs and music than on unsatisfactory goods.

    Feel free to disagree
    No one sings the blues quite like Yngwie!

  11. #41
    Since 1988 Carvinite's Avatar
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    Well, I don't really disagree....But do you think it is theft? Because the tablature and sheet music is still copyrighted. ....I mean, Im the first to go to powertabs....but, I still see it as stealing, thats just me though.

  12. #42
    IbreatheMusic Author ChrisJ's Avatar
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    I've never really thought about it. It is sort of like the old "Real Book" argument I suppose. The old "Real Book" was a very popular Jazz fake book back in the 70s and 80s. Everybody used it to learn jazz standards. I lot of people got uptight about it because it was pretty much a black market book which paid no royalties to the composer. I never really taked to anyone who's music is in it but I think the only people that really got bothered about it where the people not in it. It is my opinion but I think the "Real Book" did a great thing for the composers and artists because it pretty much kept their music alive for all this time. I wouldn't own any of my countless Miles Davis or Wayne Shorter CDs if I hadn't discovered them in the "Real Book" years ago.

    Now they have legal versions of the "Real Book." I bought one and it looks just like the old one but they sort of fixed some things and you know what.. The old one is still better. I think that the corrections that they made are wrong or maybe I am just to used to the old one. But all the musicians complain about the new ones and are keeping their ols black market ones hidden under the bed because you can't get them anymore.

    It is arguable that the tab sites help keep the music popular. I'm not sure. I generally figure things out by ear anyway. But I would be happy to find any transcriptions from my CDs on one of the sites whether or not I collect a few pennies in royalties anyway.

    By the way, I will recently have all my music from my first CD "Prospects" released in a new "Real Book" and I made the music royalty free. I simply want more people to play my music and could give a crap about the tiny amount I would make in publishing.

    -CJ

  13. #43
    Hacked Account widdly widdly's Avatar
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    With the sony rootkit, payola and sueing dead people the record industry is it's own worst enemy.

    It's just sad it's the artists that end up loosing out.
    Last edited by widdly widdly; 01-26-2015 at 05:06 AM.

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