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Thread: A rant: Things that can make ya mad

  1. #1
    Ibreathe Music Advisor EricV's Avatar
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    A rant: Things that can make ya mad

    OK,
    I just felt like writing another rant. Not as an article or something, cuz there isnīt really much advice in there. I think the forums are the most appropiate place for that...
    2 Things I thought about a lot recently, and both kinda annoy me quite a bit...

    1. "He has money, I donīt see the problem"...
    OK, I was talking to a former student on the phone yesterday. He is checking out a lot of different discussion forums, and often, we discuss the stuff he reads there.
    One thing we talked about was posts where someone asks about song-recommendations... it was something like "Hey, I heard Steve Morse is a good player, can you tell me some titles of his best songs".
    Which to me sounds a bit like "Tell me a few songtitles so I know what to type in over at Kazaa / WinMx /... "
    OK, itīs almost pointless to ramble about the whole downloading-business.
    The thing is, someone replied and said "Dude, go ahead and buy one of his CDs. Itīs worth it, and itīs fair to do that instead of downloading it"
    The guy who asked for titles replied "Well, Morse has 3 planes. I donīt think it would matter if I donīt buy one of his CDs" or something like that.
    Seriously, this is kinda... aggrivating.
    First of all, yes, indeed, Morse does own 2 or three planes. He refers to them as "the luxury I allow myself after being in the biz for so long". He uses them to fly to shows. And we are NOT talking lear-jets here, weīre talking small, Cessna-type planes.
    Everyone who read a bit about the Morse-band and the Dregs might have a faint idea that Morse might NOT have earned millions from album-sales.
    Sure, heīs in Deep Purple, but I am pretty sure that he does not get money for the OLDER DP-albums sold... and I think that albums like "In Rock" still sell way more copies today than the 3 or 4 albums he did with DP.
    Also, some people might surprised if theyīd know how much money an artist really gets for every sold CD.
    Anyway, this attitude "Well, he does own planes, therefore he MUST be rich, therefore he DOES NOT need my money..."... itīs just messed up. And I think part of whatīs wrong here is the way people perceive the "biz"... just because someone is in a popular band, or has a few records out does not necessarily mean that he or she earns millions of dollars.
    Anyone remember the "Coast To Coast" record by the SMB ? Well, most of the guitar parts were recorded in a small U-Haul-Trailer. Well, last time I checked, I didnīt see one of those at the studio. And I really doubt that recording an amp in one of those trailers is more comfortable or results in a better sound than recording your guitar parts at a real, well-equipped studio...
    So... why did he do that ? It MIGHT have to do with something called a "budget"... and thatīs only one example.
    I mean, even IF Steve has millions stashed away on his bank-account ( we never talked about money or earnings ), I donīt see one good reason to say "Heīs rich, so Iīll just download his music, he doesnīt need those few bucks"...

    I might be off all the way here, itīs just the way I feel.

    2nd is: Album reviews
    When I read album reviews in magazines, I sometimes see some extremely harsh ones, like "Waste of CD.material"... "I kinda wish the parents of those dudes would have used birth control"... "a bucket of p***" ( I am not kidding... that latter ohrase was used in a review of one of Queenīs first albums, in the early 70s )
    Now, one thing that comes to mind is:
    This simply is not fair. I know, life hardly ever is, but what I mean is: OK, maybe the reviewer doesnīt like the music, maybe itīs not his "cup of tea".
    But I happen to think that if someone writes and records songs, he often really puts his heart into it. And I donīt think some guy who sits in his office and writes 8 reviews a day has a right to go ahead and forget about that and rip those artists / bands apart.
    Everyone has his own opinion, and his right to express it. If I donīt like a record for whatever reason, it sure is my opinion.
    But one should not forget that OFTEN ( I am not talking about some boygroups or whatever ) the artist who made it stands behind it, believes in it and invested a lot of work and love into it. And that should not be forgotten. I know reviewers who write stuff like "Itīs not really my kind of music... it lacks some songwriting-skills etc. BUT they seem to have the right attitude, letīs see what happens to them, let them grow up a bit"
    That, to me, really is fair.
    I know that if you step out into the spotlight, you should get used to the fact that some people will fire away at you, and most people get used to it, but... I just wish some people would think a bit before they start throwing punches, and would leave their own personal problems out of the equation.
    BTW; I started thinking about that after reading Vaiīs latest letter on his site... Quote:
    I recall one reviewer saying that my parents should have been sterilized so they could not have had me.
    Man, that must have HURT

    Anyway, sorry for rambling away, I just needed to vent a bit
    Eric

  2. #2
    Registered User metallibeast's Avatar
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    Re: A rant: Things that can make ya mad

    What's up?

    I think sometimes not a lot of people know the ugly side of the music industry...all the audience sees are the good side like the artist having fun on stage or on tv...Talk to Malmsteen and he will tell you how he has been ripped off when he started out.

    I dun know whats the sitiuation like around the world but I suspect that its probably gonna be similiar. Here in Malaysia you could perform a concert and than not recieved any money for it....not enough ticket sales and all that crap.

    But still the passion for music is gonna keep us going on.



    -Beast

  3. #3
    Registered User CaptainCarma's Avatar
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    eric,

    I do absolutely agree with all of the things you said.

    1) even if steve morse was a multi - millionaire, canīt this be an argument TO download his ( or anyone elseīs ) music.
    because of all the money, courage, feeling(s), emotions, canalized fears, etc. he puts in his music, it is worth any of the bucks, I do have to pay for it.
    and though I know how hard it is, to make music for a living, I DO HAVE to honour people who create music that moves and inspires me, in the way of paying for it.

    2) EVERYONE really EVERYONE, who uses all his power, experiences and emotions to create music earns my greatest respect. no matter what kind of music they do, no matter if it touches MY heart or soul. it is worth because of all the feelings they put in.


    Marc

  4. #4
    Registered User B A Stone's Avatar
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    I completely agree with you Eric.

    I'll admit, I have downloaded a few tunes off Kazaa, but it has been stuff I can't find anywhere. Then it's usually an mp3 that someone made from vinyl, so it's really crappy quality. I'm talking about stuff that was hard to find even when it was relatively new. Like Captain Beyond, Budgie, etc.

    As far as stuff that's still in print, I'll buy it. An artist SHOULD get paid for his/her hard work.

    Same goes for software.

    As far as reviews go, those that take an extreme negative approach are, to me, made by people who think starting arguments makes them popular.

    The advancement of computer and electronic technology is a wonderful thing. But it has helped to create an "I want it now, and I want it for free" generation.

    That's my 2 cents. Now I gotta go find a site where I can download a free Ferarri.

  5. #5
    Ibreathe Music Advisor EricV's Avatar
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    LOL...

    yeah, I talked to Steve about this, and one day I watched him sign stuff after a show. Would you believe that someone actually walked up to him and asked him to sign a bootleg from one of the SMB-shows ?

    Whatīs weird is, someone recently emailed me and told me that he downloaded a full version of my "Canyon Of Spirits" with one of those P2P-programs... itīs kind of a weird feeling, especially since thatīs not the album-version.
    But hey, I guess I wonīt have to worry about global distribution, huh ?

    Eric

  6. #6
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    twisty ties on bread.....

    a more serious answer later

  7. #7
    Dream Theater Fan SolitaryShell's Avatar
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    3 words: I'M WITH YOU!
    Show me kindness, show me beauty, show me truth.

  8. #8
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    I might be off all the way here, itīs just the way I feel.
    Bonjour Eric, No you'r not Off.The music industrie is sick as an exemple let's say you record for Sony music nothings wrong about it except that in a another hand Sony would sell CD-R, blank tapes Recording machine ect ect Everything one would need to make free copy of your CD. Those Cie knows how to make money out of Music

    BUT
    I just buy Paul Nelson CD"LOOK" 28.95$ Ca
    I LOVE the cd but 5 music 31 min 28.95$?????Crazy I know that Paul is not having more than let's say ?1.50$ Sorry Paul it's to short. Maby this is one reason why people are doing copy??

    Your not Off Eric

    B'Bye......Michel

  9. #9
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    I agree with you eric, but (theres always a but with me) (and I wanna clarify I don't download music, or anything, that is not intended to be shared) some people download some music, with the intent to see if the genre is something they will like. They try out a couple songs and then if they like it, they go out and buy the album. I don't do that, but I can sympathize. I hate spending around 20$ for a cd here, then come to find out, I didn't feel as the rest of the album met up to expectations of the single/s that were on release. I've become more wise to that over the years (as if I'm old) I will catch a listen or borrow it from someone. Then I'll purchase. Also, if an album sounds like to YOU it is a worthwhile investment, it might end up being crap to someone else. Like you were saying everyone has thier opinion. Say if someone goes and buys an album, because a friend suggests it to them, then come to find out its not thier cup of tea....then they should return it right? of course. Well with SOME people they are making sure this is somthing they are going to enjoy. If they returned every cd they didn't like, it would be alot of returned cds in the world. But this can be prevented... by down loading a couple of songs, seeing if its somthing you'll like, then buying the album...If this is the honest intent of someone...I don't necesseraly agree with it, but I can live with it, if you know what I mean. But when someone one says to me, I'll just download it, I won't buy it. No big deal. That frustrates me. Now onto the subject of burning cds. (ut oh) For an up and coming band I DO NOT believe that someone should copy thier cds. But for a more well known band... I don't believe that this is a change from anything in the past. When tapes were still in use people would just make a copy of a tape to another tape. And (maybe I was too young to remember) I don't think a HUGE deal was made out of that so whats the difference with burning a cd. I guess that is contrasting with my first statement a bit (sorry), but for right now thats the way I feel. Someone has purchased a album, and is sharing it with a friend. Just as if someone copied a tape for you.

    I am open to critisisms, I hate you messages, and Insightful messages. And it is possible to change my mind on these issues, this is the way I feel right now. If you don't agree, by all means let me know, AND WHY! so maybe I can see it your way.

    thank you and drive safely

  10. #10
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    BTW twisty ties on bread suck...and the ice cubes with the rounded edges that fit right on the side of your glass so you can't drink anything

  11. #11
    Ibreathe Music Advisor EricV's Avatar
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    Hi there,

    thanks for your reply. Now, some thoughts on your post. I basically agree, Iīd just like to add some things that come to mind.

    1. I can PERFECTLY understand that people check out some previews before they buy. I do that myself, because, seriously, I could not afford to buy every CD I am interested in. Iīd be Amazonīs best customer if Iīd order everything I am interested in.
    What I do is: I go to Amazon, and listen to the previews ( ok, those audio-samples are only 30 secs long ) and maybe check out what other people think ( customer comments ), and then I decide.

    I can also understand that some people like to download full songs ( p2p ) to check them out before they buy. But check out some of those p2p-programs. With some of them ( winMX ) you can easily download .rar- and .zip-files containing the full album plus artwork... or download the full album, and go to some website to download big scans of the artwork ( I heard that most of those kinda sites were closed, though )

    As I said, I can understand the money issue. When I go to a CD store, I usually listen to some tracks on the album right there before I buy.
    But there are MANY people who turn the computer, put a whole album in their download-cache, and then go to school. Once they get home, they burn the tracks onto a CD.
    And when someone says "Dude, buy their CD", itīs "Why ? The artist / band sold a lot of CDs, theyīre rich, I donīt think they need my money".
    Itīs not about one or two guys, itīs about the tendency and about the increase of the p2p-business ( Napster was big already, but check out how many p2p-programs and -networks are available these days )

    For an up and coming band I DO NOT believe that someone should copy thier cds
    Steve Morse has been in the business since the mid 70īs, has released several albums with the Dregs, the SMB and the Morse-band. I donīt know if he should be considered "up and coming"
    Yet, someone emailed me last year cuz he knew I was in touch with Steve and his manager and informed me that "Split Decision" was easily available on Audiogalaxy... 4 weeks before the official release.
    Now, Steve does not have to starve just because a few guys download the CD, but at the same time, some part of his income comes from CD sales, and also, if sales increase because more people download the CD instead, I wonder whether the label will be eager to release more CDs. Know what I mean ?

    And (maybe I was too young to remember) I don't think a HUGE deal was made out of that so whats the difference with burning a cd
    Yup. But even back then, people preferred to have the original CD with artwork, in most cases. Also, consider this: if I get a new CD by some artist, make MP3s of it, and put it onto the p2p network, leaving on the computer for a whole day, it will snowball way faster than it would with tapes.
    Imagine 2 guys would download the album from me. So, there would be 3 sources online. Even more people would download it.
    And so on...
    When I was a kid, we sure made tape-copies. But seriously, how often were those copied ? There was a limit to it. I mean, I had a vinyl-version of "The Introduction". I had only 2 or 3 guys around me who were even interested in copying it. And those wanted to make copies from the original source.
    Because the quality would decrease a bit ( or a lot, dpending on your tape recorder ), if youīd make a copy of a copy. Know what I mean ? With MP3s and CD burners, you can copy a whole lot, without any decrease of quality.
    The net is international, so are those p2p-networks. So those MP3s can be spread way faster.
    Eric

  12. #12
    Ibreathe Music Advisor EricV's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Michel
    I just buy Paul Nelson CD"LOOK" 28.95$ Ca
    I LOVE the cd but 5 music 31 min 28.95$?????Crazy I know that Paul is not having more than let's say ?1.50$ Sorry Paul it's to short. Maby this is one reason why people are doing copy??
    Hey there, yeah, thatīs a lot of money,is that INCLUDING shipping ? Was it an import ? Cuz, those often are more expensive.
    I just ordered an import at Amazon, and those are almost twice as much as a regular CD...
    Eric

  13. #13
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    yea I agree. and as I said before for the most part I don't agree with down loading music off the net. And as far as the cd copying thing, and your friends being the people getting it, thats what I was trying to say too. I think we're on the same page.


    I'm a little out of it right now, I'll probably add to this later

  14. #14
    some guy Doug McMullen's Avatar
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    Well, somebody has to disagree.....


    Eric... I use a music service called Emusic to download great mp3s all day long. I pay less than 20 bucks a month to dl music to my hearts content. Fortunately for me, the music I love, coltrane and thelonius monk and miles davis charlie parker etc is on labels that Emusic carries. If I liked mainstream pop or rock or hip hop I'd be outta luck... because the major labels are boycotting Emusic?

    Why?

    Because they are money sucking devils that can't believe their cash cow, the CD, has gone belly up.

    The major's were soooooooooooooooooooo happy to sell us all the music we'd bought in the sixties, on vinyl, all over again, in a new, better, format. Talk about windfalls! Anybody here own a Led Zep cd, or a hendrix cd, or a beatles cd? I know I do. And how much did you pay for them? Ever wonder why a 30 year old cd was priced the same as a brand new one? Does that make _any_ sense?

    Truth is, cd were priced by what the market could bear, and by, _price fixing_. Anyone who thinks that the major labels don't collude to make cd prices artificially high is living in a fantasy world.

    CDs cost pennies to make. On back catalog stuff the tapes were already in the can... did the big labels cut us all a break, did they make their back catalog available at low prices? Hell no..... they cashed in! Now, these same scumbags cry foul. Skroooooooooo them! Really! they are complete money sucking scumbags. Read what Prince has to say about it, -- remember when he did concerts with "Slave" written on his face? --- that was a reference to the major labels' treatment of him. Princes hates the label's, thinks artists are getting skrood daily, and speaks quite eloquently about it. And, he's a star... how they treat the small fry is much worse. Under most contracts the labels _own_ your music... they own the master's. Very often the can sell sell sell your music in ways that ensure the artist never sees a dime.

    There are some artists who whine about file sharing.... metallica comes to mind... the only excuse for it is they _don't understand_ the business, and don't understand how they've already been skrood, or they are in the _teeeeeeeny_ minority of artists who actually have a decent contract. And even so, metallica is embarassing: instead of fighting to have their fans robbed by the big labels they should just self distribute. If the artists actually got together and concocted an internet distribution scheme... sony and columbia and EMI could all take a flying hike. Well, the corporate music days are numbered anyway I think... celebrate.

    Hey, Pearl Jam is doing fine. They _aren't_ broke. Ok, they aren't on MTV. Boohoo. Any band that can fill a concert hall can make a living.

    Someone, please explain to me why Columbia charges me 20 bucks for the Eric Dolphy Illiniois Concert cd? It's live, so there were no studio fees. Eric Dolphy has been dead 30+ years. He died because he didn't have enough money to pay for the kidney operations he needed. When I file share Eric Dolphy I know he'd approve.

    The labels, NOT napster kazaa limewire bearshare etc have made their money screwing musicians. The way contracts are written most hit bands _owe_ money to the studios by the time their is in stores and somehow they never quite get out of debt. That big studio budget is "advance against royalties" so is the advertizing budgent, so is a bunch of fine print stuff that ensures that somehow, even though Group X has made sony a zillion dollars, somehow they still _owe_ sony a zillion dollars more.

    Most artists who complain about downloading _have no clue_ about the actual contracts they've signed... they are the gullible artists who the corporate leeches make it their speciality to completely use.


    Well, that's _my_ lefty rant.

    Doug

  15. #15
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    well, as far as that goes, When someone hasn't even released the music, and its still in the studio, and someone steals it, puts it on the radio, and won't take it off.....I don't like that, same thing with putting it on MP3 I really reallllly reeaaaaaaaaalllllllllyyyyyyyy don't like it

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