David Lucas Burge's Perfect and Relative Pitch courses

[Gstring]

Just working on Bach's Bouree in E minor at the moment. I have it down slowly so it's just a case of working with the metronome. I love the bass - sounds great.

Why would you want to purchase the RP course if you are doing the PP course ? With PP you'd hear a C and a G so you'd know that they're a 5th apart. Same with chords. imo RP would come with minimal effort if you have PP.

In my case I think that my ears aren't open enough for PP yet. Don't get me wrong, I find it easy enough taking things of CD's with my guitar in hand but away from the instrument it's another story. That's why I'm trying for RP first, too really open up my ear.

[Elcon]

Gstring:
"With PP you'd hear a C and a G so you'd know that they're a 5th apart."

Elcon:
Yes, you would know only after some conscious (calculated) effort.
The RP one would preferably want is the one that won't need such an effort.
It is the kind where the ear itself, consciously or not, will hear its particular quality of the sound it produces. PP alone will not give you this ability.

Gstring:
"imo RP would come with minimal effort if you have PP."

Elcon:
And in my opinion it may not.

An interval like a Major 3rd has a particular sound. The sound it produces should be recognizable in any key you hear it in. The same, I guess, should apply for any other interval and chords.

Perhaps for PPP's who are trying to hear its recognizable RP sound, will have trouble on it, because what they will hear first of all are the absolute pitches or position of tone(s). It may be more on their surface level of hearing instead of what they should be listening for.

Ofcourse, I do believe that any PPP should know not to listen for the tones itself, but to the sound it engenders.


Take care,

Elcon

[Gstring]

Yes - PP & RP require two seperate hearing abilities. Sort of like two sides of the same coin.

Anyhow I have just been given an exercise by Jeff Linsky. Jeff is a phenominal guitarist who can play any tunes melody ( if he's heard it ) with chord improvisation on the spot. Amazing ear needless to say. He did a lot of gigs on cruise ships etc.

He basically said to imagine a melody and then play it back on the guitar. Obviously it shouldn't be a melody that you play already but a melody that you've heard before but never played.

Once you have the melody then add chords to it.

This has to be done daily and improvement will be seen over time.

Well I wouldn't mind being able to improvise like that so I did my first song today ( edit: although it took me a while to get the melody right ).

[jazzmaniac]

Yes - PP & RP require two seperate hearing abilities. Sort of like two sides of the same coin.

Anyhow I have just been given an exercise by Jeff Linsky. Jeff is a phenominal guitarist who can play any tunes melody ( if he's heard it ) with chord improvisation on the spot. Amazing ear needless to say. He did a lot of gigs on cruise ships etc.

He basically said to imagine a melody and then play it back on the guitar. Obviously it shouldn't be a melody that you play already but a melody that you've heard before but never played.

Once you have the melody then add chords to it.

This has to be done daily and improvement will be seen over time.

Well I wouldn't mind being able to improvise like that so I did my first song today ( edit: although it took me a while to get the melody right ).

That's a good exercise, Gstring. But what exactly are you developing with that, RP or PP? Well, I'll try to answer my own question here. If it's RP you would like to develop with this exercise, then you would have to be concious of the intervals in the melody you're "hearing" in your head, but if it's PP you're after then you would have to be concious of the tones (identifying 'em) instead.

In my opinion, this exercise, on the surface, develops the ability of being able to play a melody which you hear in your head down to your instrument. That's it. I do that all the time. Not only with my original compositions but also with known melodies. Because it cannot be a good RP or PP exercise if you're not paying attention to intervals or pitches. What helped me in my RP is when I think of a melody, say a popular song on the radio, I would transcribe it on paper (without the aid of any instrument) and then sight read the transcription to see if it matches the melody. If I'm unsure then I would check myself on my instrument. Then if I have wrong intervals I would correct them. When I did good with this, I didn't write everything anymore, just imagine the intervals (and chords as well) in my head then go straight to my instrument. I would just transcribe for future use of that transcription or if I wanted to give my friends a copy.

[Gstring]

Well I asked Jeff whether he has RP or PP. His reply was that he doesn't have PP but rather he just guesses where he has to go ( ie a funny way of saying RP ).

So the exercise would really to help RP.

I can't play melodies without mistakes the first time I think of them and then try to play them. I just tried it with JL's 'Imagine'. Didn't get the melody right the first time I played it.

Might be a good exercise to do for you guys: Try playing the melody ( at song speed ) to 'Imagine'. See if you get it right the first time.

The Mrs has said that she'd do ear training with me. I'd say that she'll be way ahead of me in the Burge RP course in no time. She sings and plays violin. She is also able to think of a melody and then play it back straight away. Maybe not 100% of the time but enough for me to know that she has a great ear.!

I'm looking forward in anticipation to receiving the course.

[jazzmaniac]

Cool, Gstring! Enjoy the RP course, I've heard lots of good reviews about it. Hopefully I'll be able to order one for myself too in the future. I wanna see how Mr. Burge does it with this one.

About my PP drills, I felt I need to backtrack a bit, that is I wanted to go back to the earlier drills. Not that I'm having a had time with the present exercises, I just think I need to "strengthen" my perception of the tones more. Right now I'm on the Master Class 18 I did good with the first drill and slowly now I'm beginning to "loose" that feeling of relating everything to C tonality, which I was doing I think 90% during the first phase. I'm feeling kinda lost, not having a home or something, but Mr. Burge says it's the right experience. That's why I wanted to concentrate more on hearing the colors individually.

So what happened to the others on their drills now? I wanna hear from Elcon and Chris. What's up guys?

[Gstring]

Started my Maj 3rd intervals today.

[Elcon]

I am good Jazz, I'm good.

Does it mean you are having difficulties for wanting to backtrack on the PP course?

Just checked what MC18 is all about. I do not remember if I really had any difficulties on that one.

Yeah, the MC's that follow, that is MC19, 20, 21, 22, you may find quite easy to do. And hopefully MC23 won't be too much of a big deal for you aswell.

As for me, I have become better at MC23 or the way TQ drills me which is a random three tone chord so not in particular 2 whites and 1 black, but any random three random tones of the full chromatic scale.

Take care,

Elcon

[jazzmaniac]

No, I'm not having any difficulty with MC 18. I backtrack to the Master Class where the black tones were first introduced. I think that's MC 12. I wanted to do more drills on the black tones more, and I noticed that the previous exercises are way too easy now compared to when I first did those drills. Also, I'm doing more harmonic exercises because that could get tricky to me especially with wide chords.

So, now you're telling me you're in MC 23? Well, cool! Keep us posted with your developments.

[c_n12]

Nothing really lol. Small progress. I'm working steadily but am currently only on MC 7 but I'm making slow but steady minor improvment

[jazzmaniac]

Good to hear that, Chris. Keep on working. How are the people doing with their Relative Pitch Course now? Hopefully by next week I'll be able to lay my hands on the RP course too! A good friend of mine is lending me his RP CD's. So I guess I would be able to know about it too and be able to share my experience to those people taking the course here. Mr. Burge says that if you develop both PP and RP at the same time, the ear is 4 times more powerful than taking any of the two separately. I guess I need to polish my RP too because mine could get "rusty" at times.

[c_n12]

Thanks Jazz!

Yeah I just keep with myself the thought that it may take me longer to learn it. But the curse has a flipside of a blessing because when I take longer to learn it it stays learnt and becomes that much more solid because of the extra time required.

And it is so nice to have the care and support of numerous other course takers!

[Gstring]

Received the RP course this morning.

Did a lot of listening and am up to lesson 3 so first test tomorrow.

It's only 5ths so I should be ok.

[Gstring]

Up to lesson 4 after this mornings tests.

I was watching TV last night and I hear a Perfect 4th interval during an advertisment. So the practice is starting to work.....

Also about the RP course, Burge does his exercises faster then I have been doing mine. I was more or less doing the same thing but with added stuff thrown in.

Will do a little bit more this afternoon and then the Perfect 4th test tomorrow.

[jazzmaniac]

Good for you, Gstring!!! Keep on doing the exercises and I'm sure you'll hear more.