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Thread: David Lucas Burge's Perfect and Relative Pitch courses

  1. #16
    Music student jazzmaniac's Avatar
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    I suggest you do more of the ear training meditation Mr. Burge says in the course. Try to concentrate more and let the tone come to you, don't strain and don't force to hear anything, just open up your ears to the "colors" or should I say feeling of the tones. Working on your relative pitch will help a lot, at least that worked for me. Actually I'm not so far from where you're at with the course. I'm just on Masterclass 12 but I'm trying to help with what I know worked for me. I'm excited for both of us to get that perfect pitch we so very much wanted.

    I play several instruments, including some percussion instruments too. Especially Latin percussions. Good luck in your music making, Chris.

  2. #17
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    Thanks again! Athough I actually haven't gotten through MC 8 yet but I found a free program to help me through the Master Class that is based more or less on Burge's course specifications called EarTest. It is nice because it acts as a flawless partner for me.

    "EarTest implements two of the most basic exercises suggested by David L. Burge in his Perfect Pitch Ear-Training SuperCourse. These exercises really can help you develop your perfect pitch abilities. (Note that EarTest is not officially connected with Burge or the Perfect Pitch Ear-Training SuperCourse in any way, except that I purchased the course several years ago, and decided I needed a way to practice the exercises Burge suggests). "

    - http://www.brenthugh.com/eartest/

    And you were right! I found that when I just concentrated a little more and listened a little deeper I began to hear the tone colors. It's akward because it feels like I have to focus deeply yet still feel completely relaxed and free of strain. I'm still stuggling quite a bit but my success is greatly increased!
    Last edited by c_n12; 08-21-2006 at 06:35 PM.

  3. #18
    Music student jazzmaniac's Avatar
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    I used EarMaster (introduced to me by a music professor) sometime before and it helped me with my relative pitch, since that was what I was developing then. I knew and believed perfect pitch can be developed but I just didn't have the time to gain it, because I know it would take a lot of listening, concentration and of course time.

    Some ear training I had in the music college also helped me -- sight-singing (solfege, modus novus, etc.), interval drills (using mnemonics, i.e. remembering intervals of a familiar song), and the thing I hate the most -- music dictation. I was very good in music theory but I was just satisfactory with ear training. I passed all the ear training exams and all, but I wasn't really happy with how I did. It was such a tough nut to crack then. Until I finally decided to take and devote considerable amount of time for ear training, developing both relative and perfect pitch. And now, I'm happy with how I'm doing.

    I just wanted to post that, you don't actually have to read this thing (cr*p if you may consider), I just have a lot of time to do that now. Good luck to everyone.

  4. #19
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    Hey How did you approach Master Class 8. By which I mean how did you practice your way through it? Did you try to learn all the notes in all octaves at ones. Or did you take it step by step like C,D then C,D,E then C,D,E,F ect. And did you try just let the colors come note by note or did they come all at once?

    Thanks in advance,
    Chris Nosal

  5. #20
    Music student jazzmaniac's Avatar
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    Masterclass 8

    Quote Originally Posted by c_n12
    Hey How did you approach Master Class 8. By which I mean how did you practice your way through it? Did you try to learn all the notes in all octaves at ones. Or did you take it step by step like C,D then C,D,E then C,D,E,F ect. And did you try just let the colors come note by note or did they come all at once?

    Thanks in advance,
    Chris Nosal
    What I did is I practiced the drills at "pitch level", i.e. right at the middle of the keyboard and an octave below it. It worked fine with me since I can hear the tones much clearer there. Because I think it's quite difficult to hear the colors (at this point) at the highest or lowest of the registers. I practiced right there and then I tested myself if I can hear the colors at the high register and the low. I did hear the colors still, but it's quite different (of course). It's true when Mr. Burge tells us that it's a different "tint" when you go up or down the register.

    The colors came out all at once. It's not that I tried to hear each color of each of the notes one by one. I noticed all the colors when doing the ear training meditation. Now, in MC 8 you only have C, D, E & F but I noticed other colors too when doing the drills. Especially the harmonic white-tone third drill. When I play a two-note chord I could hear colors of each of the tones and notice how these tones "bleed" to each other.

    At this point, has it ever happened to you that whenever you hear a white tone it seems like it wanted to go back to C? If you did notice that, I think you'll get past Phase I (up to Masterclass 12). So, tell me how you're progressing. Hope that helps.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzmaniac
    has it ever happened to you that whenever you hear a white tone it seems like it wanted to go back to C?
    I just don't know, I think I must be doing something wrong because all the tones just aren't coming out together and I'm not having that experience of the white note wanting to go back to C. I just don't feel like I'm getting this even though it's been over a week and a half.

  7. #22
    Registered User dusura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c_n12
    I just don't know, I think I must be doing something wrong because all the tones just aren't coming out together and I'm not having that experience of the white note wanting to go back to C. I just don't feel like I'm getting this even though it's been over a week and a half.
    If you are playing white notes and hearing them resolving to C then that is relative pitch not absolute pitch.

  8. #23
    Music student jazzmaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c_n12
    I just don't know, I think I must be doing something wrong because all the tones just aren't coming out together and I'm not having that experience of the white note wanting to go back to C. I just don't feel like I'm getting this even though it's been over a week and a half.
    I think it would take some time for you to work on this. Not everyone has the same experience, though. Just one note, don't be overly concerned if the tones aren't coming out at this point, it will come out, even the most stubborn ear will hear this if the person concentrates more while relaxing more. What helped me through Phase 1 is "absolute relative pitch". It's like when you hear any tone, it's as if it wanted to go to C. Now, you would say it's not perfect pitch but relative pitch. Well, yeah...but I was also concious of the colors even though I'm relating each tone to C. But what happened is that relative pitch and perfect pitch got mixed up, when I got to the last few drills in Phase 1. It's relative pitch yeah, ironically, how could it be relative pitch when whenever you hear like E you also hear C. That's just something I experienced. While relating all the pitches to C, I can also hear all the tones' colors.

    Right now, I can't say I have perfect pitch. I'm still working towards having that, and I know it's not very long.

    And DUSURA, it is relative pitch, yeah, not perfect pitch.

  9. #24
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    Perfect Pitch

    It is great to know about people still interested in Perfect Pitch.

    Hi, I am Elcon and I too did the Perfect Pitch course by D.L.Burge a long time ago.

    I could wish I had full perfect pitch by now, but I do not unfortunately. I used to wonder why, but I think I may have found the issue to this "problem".

    When I finished MasterClass22, I immediately started with 4, 5 and even 6 tone chords and after a while I stopped doing those exercises as I thought my ears would further develop all by itself.

    Now how can this happen without practice, would you not think?

    Yet I thought so, because I succesfully finished this course.

    Then, about a week ago, I felt like doing some of MC22 again and you know what? I had trouble on it and made mistakes again.

    Right now I am doing quite good and I feel the need to do this MC over and over again until it becomes very easy as being "second-nature" or so.

    I see it like this:

    From many mistakes to a few mistakes
    From a few mistakes to no mistakes
    From no mistakes to easy
    From easy to "second-nature"

    I do not say I cannot succesfully finish MC22. I can and I do so.
    But each session, which I do for about 30 minutes maximum, I still end up making a few mistakes before I go through it succesfully (20 in a row correct)

    Therefore, I feel like doing it again and again which I did not do back then.

    I assume this should better get my ear into this "absolute hearing" habit.

    More to come...

    Take care,

    Elcon

  10. #25
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    I'm a bit confused. So are you saying you did the course and it never really became permanant as Burge said it would or that you didn't really acquire the skill as throughly as you should have so it never became second nature?

  11. #26
    Music student jazzmaniac's Avatar
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    Wow, ELCON! You're in MC 22, you're almost done with the course. But I'm a bit confused too like C N12. Are you telling us you did finished the whole course a long time before or you're still in MC 22 and got stuck there?

    A funny thing happened when I woke up this morning...I got out of bed, went straight to the bathroom and then I heard the jeepney from outside blew its horn. I immediately recognized the pitch of that horn. It's Ab, I said to myself. I let it linger in my head a little while and then reassured myself that it really is Ab. I ran up the stairs, went to my room and checked myself on the keyboard, and voila...it is really Ab!

    I did a quality time (I must say) on Master Class 13's "inner-ear meditation" the other morning. It's a new exercise devoted to hearing the tones and noticing subtle differences with the individual pitches. Mr. Burge said that in Phase 1 everything (if not mostly) is done using relative pitch, but in Phase 2 the exercises are geared towards breaking that feel of relation and that's when perfect pitch gradually emerges. I then yesterday morning I did the first assignment on MC 14 -- playing a full C major chord followed by any black tone and then identifying that black tone. I didn't have a hard time doing that, actually I passed 1 verification round without any mistakes. Then I also noticed while doing that drill that I can hear the qualities of F#, Ab & Bb clearly but not so with the remaining two black tones. Everytime I hit Eb or C# in this drill, I'm quite unsure what that is and so I use relative pitch whenever I'm unsure. The point is (in my experience) whenever I pass a drill and go to the next, I seem to pass that drill easily.

  12. #27
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    perfect pitch

    Sorry for the confusion.

    Yes, I did do the course from the start up to MC24, but actually you can say that I have not yet finished the course as David wants you to work on your own until you have gained this ability to its fullest or however you please in MC23 and MC24.

    MasterClass 22 is really his own last exercise he wants you to do. He believes that when able to identify tones this way, you really got it down.

    Chris Nosal wrote:
    So are you saying you did the course and it never really became permanant as Burge said it would or that you didn't really acquire the skill as throughly as you should have so it never became second nature?

    Elcon:
    I believe I already have a permanent form of this tone recognition yes.
    I can always tell the name of the tone I may play blindly on my keyboard since I once did this course.

    No, I have not yet developed the skill as thoroughly as possible to be classified as a true perfect pitch possessor.

    After thinking about it, I do suggest working with a partner if possible. I have 2 little brothers, but they usually do not want to work on it with me.

    It is a totally different experience when somebody else plays you the tones.

    I seem to have trouble with E and F which I confuse and C and B.

    There is a software I know named ToneQuiz.
    It allows you to make a set of tones played eighter together or seperately.
    This functions great as this partner in MC22.

    Take care,

    Elcon

  13. #28
    Music student jazzmaniac's Avatar
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    Ok, I get it now. Aside from naming any tone played blindly on your keyboard, can you now sing any pitch at will (aural recall)? And can you name any pitch played by any instrument (universal color discrimination)? Because if you answer "yes" to both questions, wouldn't it mean you got absolute pitch?

    Thanks for sharing us your experience with MC 22, Elcon. Could you tell us about your experience with the other MC's? Is there or are there any drills that made you kinda "excited", I mean is there a point in the course when you felt like you're near acquiring absolute pitch? Also, did you have a hard time doing all the drills? Thanks.

  14. #29
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    David Lucas Burge Perfect Pitch Supercourse

    Jazzmaniac:
    Aside from naming any tone played blindly on your keyboard, can you now sing any pitch at will (aural recall)?


    Elcon:
    As I cannot do this with consistency, I say no. I had never really worked on my aural recall, so I am not too good.


    Jazzmaniac:
    And can you name any pitch played by any instrument (universal color discrimination)?


    Elcon:
    Well, that is hard to tell.
    I know I will recognize it as having a unique quality, but I may be a semi-tone off. All sounds I hear have different qualities, since I have done this perfect pitch course, but I may often not be able to name them.

    Thus I do believe my sense of "tone colour" is definately developed and permanent so to say.

    I recognize tones best if they are played live, I mean not over the radio, TV or any other transport device.


    Jazzmaniac:
    Because if you answer "yes" to both questions, wouldn't it mean you got absolute pitch?


    Elcon:
    Absolute pitch, as I thought you would know, comes in various forms and degrees/levels. Whether my hearing is a form of AP, I do not know and I do not find it important what it is named.

    As for my experiences with this perfect pitch course, I can say I had easy and difficult moments.

    I think I found most of them not to hard to do, but I do not really remember so well.

    I do know I had trouble when I got to a MC where I had to identify 4 tones played simultaneously. Yeah, that one I found really tough to do.

    Nevertheless, it only took me about 4 days or so (definately within a week) to get through the difficult ones.

    I have read on various forums that some folks would spend weeks on just one MC. No, I never had THAT much trouble.

    Working on MC22 now, this is my forth day, I feel very exited yes.
    I really love doing this exercise and I enjoy it much.
    Aha, yes, this MasterClass WILL take me weeks to complete.

    I now, since August 26 2006, work with Tone Quiz and as I mentioned it is much different from playing the tones yourself on the instrument.
    Now, not only E/F and B/C are difficulties, but almost all tones I may miss by a semi-tone.

    It may be funny, but I enjoy making these errors. I just know they will make me better in time. Right now I am for about 80% correct, but I cannot get 20 in a row correctly yet.

    Oh, another thing, I found it extremely hard to ID the tones from bottom up. And so I soon stopped doing so, because I just could not hear which tone was higher or lower.
    Perhaps that is why some spend weeks on the MC's.

    Long enough post, still reading?

    I'll post more later.

    Take care,

    Elcon

  15. #30
    Music student jazzmaniac's Avatar
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    Again, thanks for sharing us your experience, Elcon.

    I started the course last July this year (it's a month now, I hardly notice), and when I first started with the "unlocking" drills, I pretty much had the same experience as yours. I would get confused as to which tone is higher or lower. But it didn't last long. I didn't have (so far) any experience where I got stuck on a MC for few days or even a week. I'm now on MC 16, still working on that drill where you play any white-tone major chord followed by any black tone, then identify that black tone. I just finished D major up to G major, passing 1 verification round each. Right now, I would get confused with C# and Eb, but with the other black tones I'm fine.

    I'm so excited to go to the next drills. Really, I can feel perfect pitch emerging gradually.

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