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Thread: Strictly ii V I

  1. #16
    Modbod UKRuss's Avatar
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    characteristicness? See? We play a new genre and we get new words too

    Ash, no really I did mean it in a positive way. i.e. I think it is importantr to have a theme to which one returns or that is repeated to establish a melodic idea.

    IMO I don't do that enough, too much improv is not necessarily a good thing...

    Now. I fiddled with the idea of the ii becoming the new I etc. and was immediately hit by a problem. But I think you might have sorted it out for me Ash. Effectively then we play strings of ii V avoiding the I til the final moment, is that right? As otherwise I was playing the I and then either going straight to the next V or having to change the I to the new ii before moving on which didn't sound right at all...

  2. #17
    Registered User ashc's Avatar
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    Right, it's a bit early on a monday to get the best out of the little I know about sequences, but I think you can go, like:

    Am7 - D7 -> Gm7 - C7 -> Fm7 - Bb7 -> Ebm7 -Ab7 -> Dbm7 - Gb7 -> Bm7 -> E7 -> Am7 - D7 - Gmaj7

    There's a generic name for this kind of sequence (real or regular sequence or something). This cycling down in tones is often used in classical music to make key changes as well.

    Notice how it differs from a diatonic cycle in keeping the same chord types and regular step size.

  3. #18
    Modbod UKRuss's Avatar
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    I see that! I thought it might be something like that. Instead of actually playing the I, you play it as the next ii.

    okley dokley.

    Assuming then for improv, you simply move to the next key and keep widdling?

  4. #19
    Registered User ashc's Avatar
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    Takes armbands off, Swims up to deep end marked "Jazz": I think the improv challenge is doing exactly that, but without making it sound like thats what you're doing - just stepping down a scale each time is going to sound duff. So I guess this is where using your modes and arps and subs knowledge etc. etc. gives you the options to smooth those joins.

    Since it's all the way around the circle of fifths I guess you "Jazz around the clock" ;-)

    Just googled up a nice article here:

    http://danadler.com/misc/Cycles.pdf

  5. #20
    Modbod UKRuss's Avatar
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    Brrr. I think we mght save the improv. thing for a little later then...

    I'll check out the article. cheers!

    edit: whoa! That article is going to come in waaaay handy!
    Last edited by UKRuss; 03-20-2006 at 09:23 AM.

  6. #21
    Registered User ashc's Avatar
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    Give it fifteen years study and beard growing and we might be able to get some light jazz gigs at rotary club dinners Warning: this show may include whammy and wah effects with intermittent distortion.

  7. #22
    Modbod UKRuss's Avatar
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    LOL. Given: We're not going to become jazz masters from this thread alone, but we might learn something on the way.Come back and check it in 15 years...

  8. #23
    Licensed Moose
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    Here's my contribution. Nothing groundbreaking, just major scale and a repeating theme that's based around interlinking arpeggios, that follow the chord progression.

    Enjoyed playing this a lot.

    Nick
    Attached Files Attached Files
    I'll disagree with you for the sake of being contraversial.

  9. #24
    Modally Challenged!!!! mattblack850's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashc
    Give it fifteen years beard growing
    Now you tell me!! I've just gone and shaved all mine off!!!!

  10. #25
    JazzNerd gersdal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKRuss
    Gerhard, looking foward to your take big time! Especially if you've managed to sort out that new jazz box?
    The jazz box is still on the wish-list, below my wife's pick of new sofa, kitchen etc . I managed to get a decent jazz sound from my Fernandes Strat running via my new Fender Blues Junior, though. I hope the weekend will give me sufficient time for a recording.
    Quote Originally Posted by UKRuss
    Later on as we progress, you can tell me all about those chord subs you showed me when we first discussed. I don't think i understood how you go about working out whats possible.
    I'll try to record some chord subs as well, but I'm still in the learning process here...

  11. #26
    JazzNerd gersdal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattblack850
    Now you tell me!! I've just gone and shaved all mine off!!!!
    That will be ok. I think italian style mustache is more important for a jazz guitarist. Django, Joe Pass and Jim Hall comes to mind

  12. #27
    Modbod UKRuss's Avatar
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    Nice take Nick!

    I like the theme element at the beginning and the end, very jazzy. not sure about the bends, trills and artifical harmonics though...Ooofff. I can hear Django turning in his grave!

    Perhaps we all need to dump massive gauge strings on for this one to stop us bending

  13. #28
    Modbod UKRuss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gersdal
    That will be ok. I think italian style mustache is more important for a jazz guitarist. Django, Joe Pass and Jim Hall comes to mind
    In fact one could say unless you are one of ther above mentioned gents, then no kind of 'tash is acceptable at all!

  14. #29
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    Hah, I can't help it. I'm all blues at heart, and I just hear that bend in my head, and before I know what I'm doing, my fingers are doing it..

    I'll -try- to record another take, focusing more on the jazz approach, and I'll try to give a slightly more detailed overview of what I'm doing. That was a straight in there, second-take recording so I didn't really have chance to think about not going back to my habits much. It was hard enough playing like that, I'm normally always using bends, vibrato and trills. Argh, this is going to kill me. Breaking habits hurts almost as much as breaking fingers. All in the name of open-minded learning & playing, however.

    P.S: Artificial harmonics?

    What may have been percieved as an artificial harmonic, was actually a ridiculously poor bend where my fingers were slipping off the strings and it sounded a bit ropey..no..wait....I meant to do that..yea..it was an artificial harmonic..

    Thanks for listening,
    Nick
    Last edited by Lowthorpe; 03-22-2006 at 09:51 AM.
    I'll disagree with you for the sake of being contraversial.

  15. #30
    Modbod UKRuss's Avatar
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    whoops....no. I swear I can hear some pinch harmonics in there...

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