Welcome!
Just a few a ground rules first...

Promotion, advertising and link building is not permitted.

If you are keen to learn, get to grips with something with the willing help of one of the net's original musician forums
or possess a genuine willingness to contribute knowledge - you've come to the right place!

Register >

- Close -
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 76

Thread: Strictly ii V I

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Modbod UKRuss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Funky Munky World
    Posts
    3,904

    Strictly ii V I

    How do we build upon the basic ii V I into the more complex things we see people discussing on the boards?

    Substitutions? "Outside" options? Tritone subs? etc.etc.

    Well, frankly I have no idea!

    I thought if i posted the most basic ii V I with some bass and the most basic lead to go over it then we could discuss how to advance the process from there.

    So, to start with here is a ii V I in E.

    The chords I use are therefore:

    Fmin7 as the ii
    B7 as the V
    Emaj7 as the root I

    I underpin the progression with a basic bassline that tries not to be too clever. Then I use Emajor pent over the top for my lead with some passing tones to keep it slightly more entertaining.

    The result is something I think that is immediately recognisable, jolly, and straightforward.

    Perhaps those wanting to learn how to make these things more Jazz will start at this point with me first. Have a go using your major pent knowledge over the backing track provided and see what you can come up with.

    Then, when we've exhausted that option (shouldn't take too long), we can get some insight from the Jazz guys on what we can do to embellish the progression and our improvisation.

    I really don't know what options might be there but I know there is much to discuss and much to learn. So let's go!

    I post my version, a backing track, a ptab of the basic major pent shape (duh!) and also another ptab with the passing tones I used in my version...which didn't leave many untouched, but anyway it's a guide for those perhaps doing it first time (like me). I'm sure you'll come up with all sorts of options.

    The one thing I ask is that if we do want to progress with ideas on how the whole thing can become mroe complex/interesting then the poster takes time to discuss the theory or make reference to IBM articles that will help and/or post some ptabs with optional improv. scales etc.

    I'm looking forward to this, it should be fun and great learning!

    As always...Enjoy!
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by UKRuss; 03-18-2006 at 02:40 PM.

  2. #2
    Licensed Moose
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Yorkshire, England
    Posts
    369
    Awesome man! My theory knowledge isn't upto scratch to venture into anything outside of the standard scales/arpeggios but I'll definately give this a blast. Problem is, some thief stole my amp power lead from my last gig, so I have my PC power lead - I can either use my amp or PC but not both to record..

    Again, I loved your take on it. Very smooth and flowing. I can just see for the dim blue lights, smoke coming up from the floor, just near the stage.

    And, an excellent idea. I look forward to seeing how we can build upon this, for some 'advanced playing'.

    Nick
    Last edited by Lowthorpe; 03-18-2006 at 04:12 PM.
    I'll disagree with you for the sake of being contraversial.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Torquay
    Posts
    79
    I havn't done a strictly for a while so here goes...
    Heres my take on the ii V I progression. I'm using the very unadventurous Emajor scale through the whole thing. I think I dwell a little too much on the major third occasionally but major scale improvisation is not something I practise very much (I know I should) so if nothing else its made me use it. I think its a little too busy with 2 lines playing all the way through but I enjoyed working through it. I'm actually really looking forward to other people's take over this backing. Any comments/tips would be much appreciated .
    Ooo and Russ, great take as always .
    Attached Files Attached Files

  4. #4
    Modbod UKRuss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Funky Munky World
    Posts
    3,904
    hey Ben!

    Nice playing! but...

    I agree, too busy with the twin guitars and possibly not stretching your self out of your rock comfort zone.

    I'd like to hear your clean take with no bends or rock licks Try for some jazz tone and go for learning to add a nw dimension of playing to your toolbox.

    that said though, i think you've improved since last i heard you in the rock context, someones been practicing!

    ps. like your soundclick stuff too.

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Torquay
    Posts
    79
    Cheers Russ. Yep, been practicing loads for my recital next month . Actually, listening to it back again, I like it less than i did before, always the way lol. I'll give it a go again in the next week or so wen I have a bit more time away from studing for exams . I did the take inbetween chemistry coursework lol. Actually this evening i've been noodling around with a few lines trying 2 sort out some solos for the jazz band and come up wiv some intersting stuff that i can use for the next take .

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Torquay
    Posts
    79
    Here we go, after a few Guinesses to celebrate a belated St Patrick's Day I decided to give this another go, mainly out of embarrassment at listening back to the previous one I posted.
    I went for a definate 'less is more' approach this time and despite there not being anything technically impressive in the take, it is certainly more musical. After spending a few minutes listening to the backing on the computer, I grabbed a guitar and after a couple of play alongs had something I thought was reasonable and recorded it and despite its simplicity and much more pleased with the results.
    PS. sorry Russ, the one bend crept in, couldn't help it .
    Attached Files Attached Files

  7. #7
    Licensed Moose
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Yorkshire, England
    Posts
    369
    Here's my contribution. Nothing groundbreaking, just major scale and a repeating theme that's based around interlinking arpeggios, that follow the chord progression.

    Enjoyed playing this a lot.

    Nick
    Attached Files Attached Files
    I'll disagree with you for the sake of being contraversial.

  8. #8
    Shred Apprentice Bande's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    223
    Ok, I haven't participated in a stricktly a very very long time ago, so i thought i would try this one.

    The only problem is that I'm no jazzer, in fact I haven't ever played jazz in my life before. So my take is not more than random experimenting.

    But, hey, I just gave it a try.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Can you spell T-E-N-D-O-N-I-T-I-S?

  9. #9
    Montague kjellen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Volda, Norway
    Posts
    81
    I did more of a theoretical approach to this one, so it's not a coherent piece, more like short passages of concepts of how to break down the ii - V - I-progression, so 8 isolated snippets with 2-3 bars of music. I'll try to explain the ideas below.


    I threw in a collection of "substitute licks" where I play over chord progressions not present, but interchangable with the ii - V - I

    ("imagined" progressions in paranthesis)

    1 : Straightforward E major (F#m7 | B7 | Emaj7)
    2 : Tritone substitute arps (F#m7 | F7 | Emaj7)
    3 : Double trit-subst (F#m7 - C7 | B7 - F7 | Emaj7)
    4 : "The Coltrane Matrice" (F#m7 - Gmaj7 | Cmaj7 - Fmaj7 | Emaj7)

    Then some other concepts:

    5 : Superlocrian scale over V
    6 : Minor Pentatonic shapes from different chord notes (as per this article by CJ)
    7 : Diminshed chord arps over V (as a V7b9 chord, really)
    8 : Scales derived from chords ( F# dorian and B mixolydian #5 (from B7#5))


    The change in tone comes from me having to turn off my amp and record direct because I was keeping people awake.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by kjellen; 01-08-2007 at 12:59 AM.

  10. #10
    Ibreathe Follower Kinoble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    361
    Hi guys,

    Eventually have got round to contributuing to this thread, thought as i should as im doing jazz for my degree!

    Anyhows, theory-wise my track is largely diatonic, with emphasis on resolving a lines chord tones. I do use B half-whole scale over the B7 chord, yielding some chromatics and altered extensions that rub a little. I also use some subsitiute arppegios briefly over the ii and the I. Also you will hear me play an arpeggio and then move it down a half-step, a common idea in jazz, which doesnt rub too much as we are used to the rythm/phrasing in motif before. And there is a sneaky bend in there, which isnt common, but just came out!

    I apologise for the roughness, this was a 3rd take, and entirely improvised.

    Anyhows thanks,

    Ben
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Kinoble; 01-30-2007 at 12:16 PM.

  11. #11
    Registered User Joe Pass Jr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Kaki Kings Shorts
    Posts
    388
    Call me pretentious but E really doesnt cut the cheese when playing jazz. Well it does actually Anywho.

    A poor take, as allways. Basically i stuck to the Eb major scale and the Cm blues pent, throwing in some passing tones. Toward the end you will hear a Eb dom arpeggio which gave an interesting feel. Totally accidental ofcourse (no pun intended) But ill keep it in the bag and see what i can do with it in future.

    Thats about all the tech i can share, for i dont know much about it myself
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Its not the techniques you use, but the music you make.

  12. #12
    Modbod UKRuss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Funky Munky World
    Posts
    3,904
    Ash, Were you doing anything different chord wise with the keys? As always I liked the repeating theme in the guitar.

    Joe, LOL, you're right! I should have gone with some obscure (in a non jazz player way) key instead! Nice playing, similar kind of theme to my lead I thought but interesting you had some idea with an arp or two.

    Now, Lars (Santuzzo) tells me that it is sometimes common for this type of progression to cycle down a whole tone so that the I becomes the ii for the downcycle and so on...hmmm. I've been giving this some thought and think it is one way we could progress our backing track later on.

  13. #13
    Registered User ashc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    976
    Ash, Were you doing anything different chord wise with the keys? As always I liked the repeating theme in the guitar.

    Nope, the comping keys is 100% with the chord tones of original chords, mostly diads at any one moment but sometimes triads. So you might get, say an Amajor triad, over the F# bass but it's not a sub or anything like that it still F#Min7. The short break was all E major.

    I need to stop the repeating thing - I think you're giving me hint there - I'm starting to bore myself with that as well The first repeating thing was arps following the chords and then all E major after that. Not that happy with the guitar but you gotta go with what you've got..

    On the other bit, based on my limited knowledge, these key cycles in jazz tunes are often strings of ii - V's only resolving to the I at the end of a cycle? (well something like that anyway). EDIT: DOh! you already said that the I becomes the new ii etc..

  14. #14
    Modally Challenged!!!! mattblack850's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    At the bottom of another Bottle of Brown Ale.
    Posts
    1,598
    Nice Thread Russ!!
    Great takes everyone!! I'm definately looking forward to some of our 'Jazzers' having a crack at this one!! This could be a really good learning experience for all us Non-Jazzers!!!
    I'll have something posted later in the week, still a bit busy with this Radio Project, but I need to take some time out from it before it drives me even more insane than I am already!!!

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    660
    What a great idea. I have never really understood the characteristicness of the ii - V(7) - I progression. Now I can hopefully dive into it and learn a few things!

Similar Threads

  1. Strictly Neoclassic
    By phantom in forum "Strictly" Threads
    Replies: 156
    Last Post: 10-25-2013, 08:58 AM
  2. Strictly Phrygian
    By UKRuss in forum "Strictly" Threads
    Replies: 110
    Last Post: 12-23-2006, 07:13 PM
  3. Strictly Melody
    By UKRuss in forum "Strictly" Threads
    Replies: 92
    Last Post: 07-05-2006, 03:11 PM
  4. Strictly Minor (Aeolian/harmonic/whatever)
    By UKRuss in forum "Strictly" Threads
    Replies: 94
    Last Post: 09-07-2005, 01:52 PM
  5. A strictly new idea :D
    By Carvinite in forum Forum Announcements & Member Feedback
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-25-2005, 08:01 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •