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brent
01-01-2006, 07:32 AM
I have seen piano players overlap their left hand what is this called ?

what is the use of overlapping the left hand over the right hand used for?

brent
01-25-2006, 03:45 AM
which composers used the overlapping the left hand over the right hand ?

SeattleRuss
01-25-2006, 05:01 AM
I have seen piano players overlap their left hand what is this called ?


Left hand cross.


what is the use of overlapping the left hand over the right hand used for?

It's used to "set up" licks, much like a boxer "sets you up" with a left jab, then delivers a right cross.


which composers used the overlapping the left hand over the right hand ?

Bach
Handel
Papa Hayden
Doctor John
Liberace
Art Tatum
Bud Powell
Chick Corea
Harpo Marx
Condoleeza Rice

just off the top of my head.....I';m sure there are many more.

brent
01-25-2006, 05:09 AM
Thanks for the help

So its called Left hand cross?

Can u please give me some basic information to advance examples on how to use this Left hand cross?

I just don't know how to use Left hand cross can u show me ?

widdly widdly
01-25-2006, 05:54 AM
When a player has a case of the yips, he or she is experiencing involuntary movements of the hands or wrists. This occurs almost exclusively on short putts, about five feet or less.

One cure for the yips that players have used over the years is the cross-handed putting grip. This grip is also known as "left hand low" because the left hand is placed below the right hand -- opposite of the traditional grip for a right-handed player.

The purpose of the cross-handed grip is to stabilize the left wrist, which frequently breaks down when a player is suffering from the yips. Without a firm left wrist, it is impossible to put a smooth, pendulum-like stroke on the ball.

Another advantage of the cross-handed grip is that it lowers the left shoulder, putting the player in a better starting position to make a true pendulum motion with the arms during the putting stroke.

If you are having trouble making a smooth stroke on short putts, give the cross-handed grip a try.
________
WEED (http://wwweed.com/)

forgottenking2
01-25-2006, 04:16 PM
Golf... hmmm I should try it. They say it's relaxing. And I don't know how Brent has time to practice if he spends all his time asking questions

mattblack850
01-25-2006, 08:28 PM
Golf... hmmm I should try it. They say it's relaxing. And I don't know how Brent has time to practice if he spends all his time asking questions

Well, he used to spend all his time practicing asking questions, but after years of hard work and dedication he seems to have that off to a 'Tee'!!!:D
Now, hard work, dedication and constant improvement, I wonder what else you could apply these principles too?:confused: :D

brent
01-25-2006, 10:18 PM
How does composers or piano players use cross-handed?

What are some melodies/licks/phrases that use cross handed please?

Wolfgang
01-25-2006, 10:23 PM
brent :I have seen piano players overlap their left hand what is this called ?

brent :How does composers or piano players use cross-handed?


:confused: :confused: :confused:

mattblack850
01-25-2006, 10:23 PM
One of the most obvious tracks that demonstrates this technique would be Queens 'Bohemian Rhapsody'.

http://www.youtube.com/w/Queen---Bohemian-Rhapsody?v=nZ3G9d43X_M&search=queen

I've even found the video for you so you can see it in action!;)

Zatz
01-25-2006, 10:26 PM
Yes!!! That's right! Very good example, Matt!

brent
01-25-2006, 10:27 PM
Yes but why did Freddy use this cross hand what is it used for and why?

mattblack850
01-25-2006, 10:30 PM
The reason for him using it is purely to keep the right hand positioned in the same place and then extend the melody up by using the left hand. It's pure ergonomics, it saves trying to overstretch the right hand when you don't need to.:)

Zatz
01-25-2006, 10:30 PM
Yes but why did Freddy use this cross hand what is it used for and why?

I would say it was just convenient.

Zatz
01-25-2006, 10:31 PM
hehe, we replied in sync :)

mattblack850
01-25-2006, 10:33 PM
hehe, we replied in sync :)
And strangely enough, with the same answer!!;)

brent
01-25-2006, 10:39 PM
Is there some example of classical composers using cross handed melodies?


How do i make up cross handed melodies please?

I still don't know the theory beside cross handed ?

mattblack850
01-25-2006, 10:54 PM
Is there some example of classical composers using cross handed melodies?


How do i make up cross handed melodies please?

I still don't know the theory beside cross handed ?

I can't help you with the Classical side of things, I'm afraid.

As for how to make up melodies, well... I'd suggest sitting at a piano/keyboard, play around with C based chords, arps etc and then use your left hand over the top to add extensions to the chord structure you are playing, all very simple as you'll only be using the white keys and so nothing should sound out of tune!!:D
There really isn't any 'Theory' behind it as it's a 'Technique', much as you asked about string skipping, it's a technique used to make certain things easier, no more, no less. In fact it's a similsr thing to string skipping in that you can use the technique to play higher extensions in the scale without having to play the notes in between.

It's not some arcane magical art. Sit and play around with it, experiment with it yourself, you may surprise yourself at what you achieve in a small ammount of time!;) :D

brent
01-25-2006, 11:03 PM
what is this cross hand Technique?

How do i use the cross hand technique?

mattblack850
01-25-2006, 11:05 PM
what is this cross hand Technique?

How do i use the cross hand technique?
As for how to make up melodies, well... I'd suggest sitting at a piano/keyboard, play around with C based chords, arps etc and then use your left hand over the top to add extensions to the chord structure you are playing, all very simple as you'll only be using the white keys and so nothing should sound out of tune!!:D

brent
01-25-2006, 11:15 PM
add extensions

Does cross hand used for counter point or held notes i mean i don't get
whats the use of it what does it do really ?

I thought cross handed created layers of notes

mattblack850
01-25-2006, 11:31 PM
add extensions

Does cross hand used for counter point or held notes i mean i don't get
whats the use of it what does it do really ?

I thought cross handed created layers of notes

OK, we'll go through it bit by bit!!;)
To add extensions to your original chord. Imagine you are playing a C chord with your right hand C,E,G, then you added in the A and octave C, it's now a C6, now if you wanted to add any more notes on top of the chord you've run out of fingers on the right hand so you could overlap with the left hand and add on whichever extensions you wanted to use. eg 9th, 11th, 13th etc and also as far as you want, or until you run out of keyboard!;)

Yes you could use it for counterpoint or harmony playing, though it wouldn't always be neccessary. As I said before, it's a technique to enable you to utilise positions above the right hand.

As for creating 'layers', well yes it could, but in exactly the same way as you could create layers by fingering normally. That would all depend on your starting point and also the actual harmonisation of the piece you wre playing/composing!

brent
01-25-2006, 11:43 PM
Thanks for the help

How can i use cross hands starting from the bottom of the keyboard to the top of the keyboard cross handing all the way up and down the keyboard?

mattblack850
01-25-2006, 11:50 PM
Thanks for the help

How can i use cross hands starting from the bottom of the keyboard to the top of the keyboard cross handing all the way up and down the keyboard?

I'd suggest start by playing a scale, start with the left hand as normal, continue the scale with the right hand, then continue on by overlapping the left etc and continue it all the way up the keyboard and then reverse it to descend again! Just concentrate on keeping everything as smooth and even as possible!

brent
01-25-2006, 11:52 PM
What is the "Effect" of cross hand?

What does the cross hand Sound like?

mattblack850
01-25-2006, 11:57 PM
What is the "Effect" of cross hand?

What does the cross hand Sound like?
The effect is as we talked about earlier, it's the 'effect' of being able to extend the chord/scale/melody higher without having to shift right hand positions.
As for the 'sound' I could only say that you'd be able to play through into the higher registers quickly and fluently. Maybe similar to finger tapping on the guitar.

brent
01-26-2006, 12:53 AM
I thought cross handed was used for like a fugue or time delaying


LIke if my right hand plays CDEFG the left hand crosses over and plays
ABCDE and then the crosses over righ hand plays FGABC

To create Delaying Echos with Cross handed how do i create Delaying echos with Cross handed?

mattblack850
01-26-2006, 10:55 AM
I thought cross handed was used for like a fugue or time delaying


LIke if my right hand plays CDEFG the left hand crosses over and plays
ABCDE and then the crosses over righ hand plays FGABC

To create Delaying Echos with Cross handed how do i create Delaying echos with Cross handed?
In a way you've just answered your own question here!! Exactly as you describe, to create a 'Delaying' effect... play your motiff with the right hand and then you could repeat the motiff an octave up using the left hand, or a harmonised part etc.
This is why you are thinking specifically about 'Fugues', as a fugue is a piece basically written around repeating phrase or theme.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugue

Oceano
01-26-2006, 01:09 PM
Do you know what an 'X' looks like Brent?

Well then, cross your arms to make an 'X" like shape, and then start banging away at those piano keys.

ashc
01-26-2006, 01:24 PM
I'd only ever thought about this in one way before now.

If you take a piano score there is usually two clear parts : a left hand part and a right hand part. A very coarse place to start is bass clef and treble clef but in practice the left hand can venture plenty into the treble clef as much as it wants (can be written in that clef for whole sections). The right hand can venture vice versa.

Anyway, we have these two parts that after a bit of study are usually, in simple pieces at least, quite clear.

Now if we have situation e.g. that the right hand part has a nice continuity to it - and the bass part is sparse enough to allow this - and then something pops up as an embellishment above where the right hand is busy, then the player can cross the left hand over and deal with it. Sometimes, I guess you see the liberace / lounge pianist types doing this more for effect than necessity.

Now thats the simplest and most obvious case, but it's clear in more complex cases the music has been written/developed in such a way that this necessity of crossing the hands arises and needs to be kept going for some time, since there are no breaks to allow the player to get back to normal. Now I couldn't give a good example, I'm far too poor a keyboardist to get further into this, but I have seen this cross-hands all up and down the keyboard stuff as well.

But, I only ever thought that the piece had been written that way, knowing it would be playable, for no other reason than compositional design - not any specific effect other than the physical requirement to execute it that way??

By the way, there can be cases where the hands don't cross completely but some of the fingers become interlocked as a necessity of keeping the two parts separate. Thats pretty advanced stuff.

brent
01-26-2006, 05:26 PM
Thanks For the help guys on this

liberace / lounge pianist types doing this more for effect


Which Lounge or Liberace pianist do cross handed for effects?

What type of Effects?

Oceano
01-26-2006, 05:43 PM
Jesus Christ Brent, take a deep breath and relax for a second or two man. Go outside and smell some flowers or something.

mattblack850
01-26-2006, 05:44 PM
Thanks For the help guys on this

liberace / lounge pianist types doing this more for effect


Which Lounge or Liberace pianist do cross handed for effects?

What type of Effects?
The effect Ash was talking about was a pianist playing and then crossing their hands with a flourish, purely for show, not actually a musical effect!!!:D

SeattleRuss
01-26-2006, 06:18 PM
Here is a movie demonstration (sorry, no sound) of a cross-handed technique called "the crab". Originally devised by Jimmy Web (wrote "Up, Up and Away"), the hands are crossed and the two pinky fingers are tightly linked. The reasoning behind this approach is that in severely limiting yourself, i.e. constricting your hand's mobility, you may play things that you normally would never even think of. Remember: From the oyster comes the pearl.....

Crab Technique Demo (http://www.russletson.com/video/crab.MOV)