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szulc
09-07-2005, 02:10 PM
I will be posting some common SAP exercises here for all interested parties to practice and participate in improving speed and accuracy wth SAP.

Basically each participant will post his/her starting speed and date with each of the exercises. Then on a monthly or weekly interval post the new speed. If the speeds are considered excessive the request will be made to post a sound clip with metronome and at a specific pitch.

THIS IS NOT A SPEED CONTEST OR COMPETITION.

The purpose is to encourage participation and improvement in each individual's SAP speed and accuracy. The objective is to IMPROVE.

When this was attempted last time everyone was in awe of Thorsten's starting speed. Thorsten has spent many years getting where he is and is in possession of some natural ability that not everyone here will possess. If someone of his caliber chooses to participate, their room for improvement will be less than those starting off at a slower speed (because they are already near the limits of their ability).

It is something for the rest of us to strive for, not to be intimidated by. I strongly encourage each person to record the first attempts at these exercises and save them for future reference. Then down the road record again to hear and feel the improvement.

I'll also suggest that those with windows machines use PowerTab to play along with as their metronome.

James

UKRuss
09-07-2005, 02:35 PM
Huzzah!

Thanks James, I'll be right on it!

Apple-Joe
09-07-2005, 06:09 PM
Very interesting. I have focused on alternate picking lately myself. Actually I noticed a certain progress already today. I'll have a look at the tablature.

ashc
09-07-2005, 08:52 PM
I'm in. If only to make the rest of you look good - you 3NPS widdlers are going to shame me big time. First BPM and clip ASAP.

Main problem could be counting to 24 repeats!

Ash

UKRuss
09-07-2005, 09:01 PM
oh no, im not doing 24 repeats!!!!

i,ve been doing it all evening and am being really strict, but so far I haven't had one single clean take!!!

I keep reducing the BPm by 5 and going agani, unclean.

I wont rest til i have one clean take here tonight, regardless of the BPM keepin going down. After all thats what it's about, gettnig it right and improving, so that i shall do!:D

Stratosaurus
09-07-2005, 09:06 PM
Count me in too. I'll be nothing more than an embarrassment to myself to begin with but I'm sure this will help a lot. Great idea, James... this should help a lot of people. I'll get to work.

Santuzzo
09-07-2005, 09:29 PM
Hey, James !!!!

Great !!!!
Thanks a lot !!!

I really appreciate it that you did this group effort / study group for working on alternate picking !

I'd better get practicing now !!!!!! :rolleyes:

Once again, thanks a lot for this great thread !!!!

Once I got started I'll post my BPM ....

Lars

UKRuss
09-07-2005, 10:23 PM
OK, I've ben as honest as i can with this. I kept reducing BPM until i made a clean enough take.

I was surprsied by the difficulty of the slower BPM though becasue the slower it was the harder the timing was for me. but the elss mistakes i made.

So it's my flag in the sand as a starting point!

lets see what a month can do.

tucker97325
09-08-2005, 01:24 AM
I figured I'd use the the PowerTab metronome to help me keep time, but it only goes to 300!! Oh wait, the higher the number the FASTER it is. Okay, back the the drawing board.:D

Maybe some one can give me some pointers here? I'm new to this whole "Plectrum" thingy-bob, shaped something like a valentine. So please pardon me if this is a really stupid question.

It seems to me there is probably a correct way to do this excersize in terms of UP stroke versus DOWN stroke using this little plastic thing. I noticed that in PowerTab there is an indicator that can be used to indicate which direction the note should be played. I assume this most often used to indicate strum direction for a chord. But, since this is an educational endeavor in Alternate Picking, is it possible that someone could include that indicator to show the best way to pick these note?

Or maybe it's as simple as "You always start on a down stroke." Can anyone help me with this?

UKRuss
09-08-2005, 05:59 AM
I started on a down stroke, but rhe clever thig a bouyt this exercise is there's little movements required from the pick to be in the right position for the next pick. Thats gonna be telling once the BPM starts rising.


Start down, start up, which ever is more comfortable then off you go,m up down up dopwn up down up down etc.

Stratosaurus
09-08-2005, 06:24 AM
Here are two articles written by EricV. He provides a lot of great information on picking from beginner to advanced.

The Art Of Picking (http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/43) (a long, but extremely informative three part series)
99 Ways To Pick (http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/1) (everything you ever need to know about picking)

To reiterate Russ' comments, you can start either up or down, then remain at a constant ...up-down-up-down-up-down... motion. You might experiment with which direction you are most comfortable starting with as it ultimately doesn't matter that much. I'm going to make a guess and say that most people start with a down stroke.

I have noticed that alternate picking can be more difficult for some people than others when first introduced to it. If you find that you cannot keep a constant tempo, maybe try sitting down on the couch and practicing it while you watch TV. Just pick an open string for a while until you can keep a constant tempo or your arm falls off. Whichever comes first.

I should also mention one other thing. If your arm, wrist, or hand gets tired quickly you are probably doing it wrong. Check your arm and hand positioning, relax, be comfortable, and try again. Tendonitis is not a cool thing, I'm told.

ashc
09-08-2005, 07:40 AM
Russ, When I saw your clip was 4 mins I thought you'd gone for 50 repeats! You must have recorded over the start of some other noodling on the same track or something.

The slower you go the harder it gets effect is most noticeable for me playing Arps with 1NPS SAP. Some of the etude thingies I made up I always start at really low speed and it's torture - almost like your hand has time to go off and find a mistake to make.

I should get chance to try tonight. I've done a fair bit on pent sequences that skip up and down like this one so I might not be so bad.

tucker97325
09-08-2005, 08:01 AM
Here are two articles written by EricV. He provides a lot of great information on picking from beginner to advanced.

The Art Of Picking (http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/43) (a long, but extremely informative three part series)
99 Ways To Pick (http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/1) (everything you ever need to know about picking)
Thanks Stratman, those were pretty informative articles. I think I mostly need to work on left/right hand synchronization. It's a lot different with a pick. You have to move so much more.:rolleyes:

widdly widdly
09-08-2005, 08:25 AM
Yeah Russ has given us some bonus noodling :D nice tone!

I'm going to have a crack at this over the weekend.
________
Iolite Handheld Vaporizer (http://vaporizer.org/reviews)

szulc
09-08-2005, 01:23 PM
This is a simple exercise, but the picking difficulty is exaggerated by the 3 string groups forcing you to alternate the starting stroke of each motive (nine notes).
Doing it cleanly is a good way to improve your ability to cleanly AP in general.
Once this exercise is under your belt, the attempts should be made to mix up the order of the notes on each string to make the exercise more musical (interesting, and more difficult). I'll refer to previous posts or repost some exeample when I get time.

tucker97325
09-08-2005, 03:18 PM
This is a simple exercise, but the picking difficulty is exaggerated by the 3 string groups forcing you to alternate the starting stroke of each motive (nine notes)...Okay, now I'm confused again. Are you saying there is a "BEST" way to begin each motive? If so, could you share that information?

szulc
09-08-2005, 03:40 PM
? I don't get where you got "BEST". There is only one way to do this exercise, well actually two is you count starting on an upstroke as another possibility. My comments only meant that this is difficult only because it FORCES you to start each 9 note group (what I am calling a motive) with a DIFFERENT stroke than the one before. Make sense?

tucker97325
09-08-2005, 04:21 PM
? I don't get where you got "BEST". There is only one way to do this exercise, well actually two is you count starting on an upstroke as another possibility. My comments only meant that this is difficult only because it FORCES you to start each 9 note group (what I am calling a motive) with a DIFFERENT stroke than the one before. Make sense?It makes sense if what you're saying is "You start with a stroke (up or down) and each stroke after that is the opposite of the prior stroke.)

Please remember, I don't ordinarily use a pick, so this is all new to me. Since I am learning from square one, I'd like to learn/practice using the proper technique. I was thinking of the process of developing speed in a purely physical sense. That is, it seems it would take a shorter length of time to play a note on the 6th string followed by one on the fifth string if they were both played with a continued down stroke. But I guess that doesn't take into consideration the rhthym/coordination allowed by just being able to move the pick up and down quickly.

I think I understand now.

Apple-Joe
09-08-2005, 05:21 PM
It makes sense if what you're saying is "You start with a stroke (up or down) and each stroke after that is the opposite of the prior stroke.)

Please remember, I don't ordinarily use a pick, so this is all new to me. Since I am learning from square one, I'd like to learn/practice using the proper technique. I was thinking of the process of developing speed in a purely physical sense. That is, it seems it would take a shorter length of time to play a note on the 6th string followed by one on the fifth string if they were both played with a continued down stroke. But I guess that doesn't take into consideration the rhthym/coordination allowed by just being able to move the pick up and down quickly.

I think I understand now.

I have never really learned to pick like a master. However, a few days ago I noticed a progress. What I did was that I sat down and planned out certain patterns to play over and over. An advice from me would be to choose a scale, for instance the A Minor scale, and play it grouping the notes in 3 notes per group. Practice both ascending and descending.

A concrete example on what helped me a lot;

I began on the (A) 5th fret high E with an up stroke, then I hit the (G) 8th fret B string with a down stroke, next the (F) 6th fret B string with an up stroke again. That's the first three notes. Now you go back to the G note and play G F E, then to the F going F E D. Make sure you ALWAYS alternate pick. That's the key to a structured style, it seems. No matter what you do, alternate it each time. That's what I have done lately, and I have finally started to experience a certain progress.

Another suggestion is to keep it simple. Before I played the whole scale, I concentrated on a few notes only. Then when I had the first phrase under my belt (or; do I even have it under my belt yet? I'm not sure) I moved on.

Closing words; start out simple, keep it alternate.

UKRuss
09-08-2005, 06:22 PM
Yeah Russ has given us some bonus noodling :D nice tone!

I'm going to have a crack at this over the weekend.


Ooooo,I don't know about that. I think I recored over one of the lead tracks I did for the Bluesy pent take I did recently. God, that's got to sound awful on it's own....

Apols, I thought I'd got rid of it all!

Apple-Joe
09-08-2005, 07:22 PM
I think I heard a couple of extremely nice chords towards the end of your Strictly Alternate Picking recording. I didn't analyze them, I just remember now, that they sounded very well. Were they chords of a special kind, or was your guitar tuned to perfection? Oh, as we're on about the chords; listening to your ending led to a moment of annoyance. The way you built up by playing a few nice chords, probably barre chords of some sort? They had a certain substance, they built up the tension, and then all of a sudden you ended the whole piece with a single note; or a few single notes played in succession. Heh, where did the final, grandiose, bombastic and pompous chord I expected go? OK, that's it. No more complaints this time.

Your actual recording; your alternate picking piece, sounded good. The clean tone underlines that, as it's hard to hide technical flaws when your tone is clean. From what my ear perceived there were no errors, so I'll stay inspired and try the exercise myself soon.

UKRuss
09-08-2005, 07:33 PM
Cheers AJ, I did hit a coulpe of wrong notes I think in my AP practice but i think the picking aspect was pretty good.

It was very helpful just to see what your honest maximum is, becasue in my mind i thought yeah, i can do faster than that but in reality i was much slower than i thought i would be. Humbling and totaly right!

The other bits i can't really comment on, it was just noodling. I suspect the chords are 7ths though. The reason i guess the bit ends with just notes or seemingly random stuff is becasue I pressed the stop button too late for the end of the AP stuff and too early for the end of the other stuff so it is incomlpete, sorry.

But i think it is actually the take i did on the latest Strictly Pent so you can proly check the whole thing there.

MattW
09-08-2005, 07:33 PM
I'm gonna suck so bad at this, I don't normally play these kinds of things. I'll give it a go though.

ashc
09-08-2005, 08:37 PM
Here's two clips from me at the rather lame 110bpm and 115bpm (tired by then) - both using the Russ 3 repeats yardstick.

I'd be interested to hear if either or both are a "fail" - be honest now.

I probably did try too hard too soon, but I'm gone for a few days now and wanted to get something in to work up from.

Ash

Apple-Joe
09-08-2005, 09:02 PM
UKRuss: I see. Regarding my speed level I don't have any expectations at all. I have never really practiced speed. I've just learnt to play "in key" and play it "right". Seldom I have practiced for the sake of gaining speed. However, it has occured, and I have increased the speed practice in the very recent time. I'm happy about one aspect, and that's the fact that I am about to get rid of the 'too laidback' attitude I've had when improvising solos. I haven't bothered picking for real. I've cheated by incorporating legato style all over the place. Fluent? Maybe sometimes, but the overall perception will be extremely drab after a longer listen. Even my Strictly Minor take suffers from this, but it sometimes happens when I'm "drifting away". When disappearing in the moment, the joy occasionally tends to exceed the discipline. Well, that's not a bad thing all the time when I think about it. Having fun playing is great, but it's all about balancing the thin line between wild, mindless "circus" playing and strict, strict, structured (...to the irksome?) playing, isn't it? One should really find ones place somewhere in between.

MattW: What? Well, you seemed to complete a few well-performed picking sequences in both your Strictly Dorian and Strictly Minor, so I doubt you'll fail that badly on this one.

EDIT: Asch - good playing. You focused on playing clean, that's great. No reason to rush it for the sake of rushing. I have a feeling it's harder than it sounds. Both the 110 and 115 BPM recording were good, but the first one was probably a little more perfect. I didn't react on anything, while in the 115 BMP rec. I noticed maybe one or two "half-way" unlucky picks.

Short, but stylish ending.

Santuzzo
09-08-2005, 09:49 PM
Are we really supposed to play the exercise 24 times in a row without interruption?

Or is it alright, to do it like say 4 or 8 times ?

I'm about to find my present speed for it ... and it really does depend on whether I play it just 8 times or 24 times in a row .... :rolleyes:

I guess, it mya make sense to really stick to playing it 24 times, great way to work on endurance and also concentration !
It is DAMN hard to play it 24 times in a row without any slight mistake or flaw -regardless of speed-

Lars

szulc
09-08-2005, 10:06 PM
There is no hard and fast rule that demands you play this 24 repeats I just tabbed it ot that way so you could let powertab run while you moved in and out of actually playing it.

MattW
09-09-2005, 06:44 AM
I haven't bothered picking for real. I've cheated by incorporating legato style all over the place.

MattW: What? Well, you seemed to complete a few well-performed picking sequences in both your Strictly Dorian and Strictly Minor, so I doubt you'll fail that badly on this one.

Don't dismiss legato as cheating! It's just another technique to reach a desired effect, to play complicated legato lines and not just simple runs up and down is actually particularly difficult, probably harder than picking the same lines in a lot of cases. It's just a matter of using the right technique to achieve the desired sound is at any particular time.

With regards to me probably being rubbish at this, the main reason why I'll find it quite tricky is because of the SAP rule (and not just 'cos I think I suck at picking;)). I can alternate pick the main chunk of the run not that badly, but when it comes to changing direction (at the end of the 9 note section) I don't always think in SAP terms, it's not so much that I'm making mistakes because of it, it's more that I'm breaking the rules, it'll just be a matter of getting out of the habit for this excersise.

UKRuss
09-09-2005, 07:33 AM
That's some tidy pickin' there Ash! I can't say I really heard any mistakes at all, if anything it made me feel guilty I'd gone to 140 and hmmmm, I'm not sure it's as clean as it should be, I may drop and work my way back up again.

Love the ending!:D

tucker97325
09-09-2005, 08:09 AM
I won't post mine, but I'll tell ya, I can do it clean at between 75 - 80. I feel like such a failure.:(

UKRuss
09-09-2005, 08:12 AM
Remember Friar!Not a competition, it's about improvement. Post it at whatever BPM you get, then next month when we see that improvement you will feel success instead!

tucker97325
09-09-2005, 09:01 AM
Ok, as long as it's not a competition, and you don't hold me to that "clean" claim. Here it is. (Now, this was done on my new 'lectric guitar. BTW, did you know that the knobs get in the way, if you aren't used to them being there?)

tucker97325
09-09-2005, 09:06 AM
Paaat, Russ. You've exceeded you PM limit.

UKRuss
09-09-2005, 09:14 AM
PM sorted, apols.Very clean Friar! I hear the strat tone too! Pleasing.

Nothing wrong with that at 75BPM, what's your target for next month.

I'm going to try and aim for 5bpm a week improvement so hope to be at 160BPM next month.

....I'd love to hear Thorsten's take soon.

Just so we know how AP is really done when you put in the practice hours!:D

Stratosaurus
09-09-2005, 09:22 AM
Strats are notorious for the knobs being in the way. You'll learn not to accidently turn it down eventually. Some people wire them backwards... or so I've heard. So if anything they'll accidently turn it up.

Don't be ashamed of 75bpm. In an article Jamey Andreas wrote says something sort of like: "Learning an instrument is like climbing a mountain. You look ahead and you can't see very far, but you keep moving anyway. Sometimes you can stop and look back, and will be surprised at how far you've come. Just don't forget to look ahead and keep moving forward again."

My (and Jamey's) point is: In a few months you'll have a good chuckle at your 75bpm mark. But rest assured. Nobody is laughing at you, man. We all have our strong points and weak points -- and 75bpm could be a lot worse.

Keep that sweet Strat tone coming man.

MattW
09-09-2005, 09:52 AM
"Learning an instrument is like climbing a mountain. You look ahead and you can't see very far, but you keep moving anyway. Sometimes you can stop and look back, and will be surprised at how far you've come. Just don't forget to look ahead and keep moving forward again."


The problem I've found is that I used to keep thinking I could see the top of the mountain, then when you get there you realise you have hardly even begun, I guess that reaching the top is a relatively futile task since the mountain could be said to be infinitely high, or just gets bigger the further you climb. I suppose the aim is then to get as high up your own personal mountain, make the most of the view you have earned and not to try and race or compare yourself to someone who is climbing a completely different one of thier own.

I like analogies.:p

Stratosaurus
09-09-2005, 11:39 AM
Yeah. It's a great analogy. Jamey goes on with it, eventually coming to a point that you can never reach the top of the mountain. The part between 99% and 100% is infinite... and each step further is that much harder than the last.

In my opinion what you just said, Matt, is dead on. I couldn't have said it better myself (even though I did jack Jamey's analogy.)

Apple-Joe
09-09-2005, 03:45 PM
Don't dismiss legato as cheating! It's just another technique to reach a desired effect, to play complicated legato lines and not just simple runs up and down is actually particularly difficult, probably harder than picking the same lines in a lot of cases. It's just a matter of using the right technique to achieve the desired sound is at any particular time.

With regards to me probably being rubbish at this, the main reason why I'll find it quite tricky is because of the SAP rule (and not just 'cos I think I suck at picking;)). I can alternate pick the main chunk of the run not that badly, but when it comes to changing direction (at the end of the 9 note section) I don't always think in SAP terms, it's not so much that I'm making mistakes because of it, it's more that I'm breaking the rules, it'll just be a matter of getting out of the habit for this excersise.

Maybe I was harsh on the legato style. Anyway, let me try to re-phrase the sentence. At the time one is about to reach a satisfactory level regarding legato style solos; it's time for playing a few solos without incorporating the legato style at all. Only picking. Compare, see if it sounds equally good. See if one can master it. I certainly forgot about real picking myself, but I'm working on it now.

Another example when it comes to fast playing. Anyone can practice 1-string speed picking and legato, then combine both and by speed picking a note as well as pulling it off. It will sound fast. However, how much practice does this require, compared to the practice needed in order to obtain a pleasing level of fast, structured, alternate picking?

I'm not dismissing the legato style; I might have used too strong words. Reality is just that I am aware of what may happen when you 'forget' about real picking.

tucker97325
09-09-2005, 05:04 PM
AJ - IMHO opinion, the difference between picking and legato may not be as much about speed as it is about the feeling each bring to a piece. But that's just my opinion.

Now here's a question, for anyone. I'm finding myself stumbling over the this pattern as I move from the 3rd srting on to the 2nd string and back. I think I may be using the wrong fingers of my fret hand. Anybody want to share how they are doing this section?

Apple-Joe
09-09-2005, 05:41 PM
AJ - IMHO opinion, the difference between picking and legato may not be as much about speed as it is about the feeling each bring to a piece. But that's just my opinion.

Now here's a question, for anyone. I'm finding myself stumbling over the this pattern as I move from the 3rd srting on to the 2nd string and back. I think I may be using the wrong fingers of my fret hand. Anybody want to share how they are doing this section?

I hear you about feeling, but what I'm trying to say is that sometimes legato may lead to a too laid-back style. I'm speaking of experience.

That said, I know it's possible to combine. Just listen to Satriani and Vai, for example, who do both techniques brilliantly.

tucker97325
09-09-2005, 05:48 PM
I hear you about feeling, but what I'm trying to say is that sometimes legato may lead to a too laid-back style.HA ha ha, is there such a thing?:p

UKRuss
09-09-2005, 06:19 PM
Here's my fingering for it Friar, interesting to see if anyone does it different:

tucker97325
09-09-2005, 10:07 PM
Thanks Russ, that's how I'm doing it. Maybe it is the picking that's getting to me.

Edit: Oops, that's how I do it when I'm paying attention to how I'm doing it. When I'm concentrating on the clicks I keep the IRM thing going. I guess that's what I need to work on.

Santuzzo
09-09-2005, 10:11 PM
Ok, I practiced the exercise yesterday and today.
Right now I got it up to 130 BPM.
Also played/tried it faster (like 140 or 150 BPM) but then it got a bit sloppy. So I'd rather play it slower and cleaner.

Lars

tucker97325
09-09-2005, 10:32 PM
Yeah, I did it at 240 yesterday, but I missed a few of the notes too.:D

Stratosaurus
09-09-2005, 10:36 PM
I, too, just hit 130. I'm surprised at how slow that is for me as I could probably top 180 using economy picking... or maybe even faster. Well, that's my starting point.

tucker97325
09-09-2005, 10:47 PM
I, too, just hit 130. I'm surprised at how slow that is for me as I could probably top 180 using economy picking... or maybe even faster. Well, that's my starting point.Well??? Are you guys going to post the 130 MP3's???

tucker97325
09-09-2005, 10:57 PM
Yeah. It's a great analogy. Jamey goes on with it, eventually coming to a point that you can never reach the top of the mountain. The part between 99% and 100% is infinite... and each step further is that much harder than the last.

In my opinion what you just said, Matt, is dead on. I couldn't have said it better myself (even though I did jack Jamey's analogy.)Yeah, I like this mountain climbing analogy. I guess it puts me in the truck, still driving toward where the mountain is. By next month, I hope to be parking the truck, and getting ready to hike to base camp.:D :D :D

Santuzzo
09-10-2005, 08:28 AM
Well??? Are you guys going to post the 130 MP3's???

To be honest, I don't know yet how to record myself with the computer, but as I do have a microphone and some recording software (which I have never used yet) I'll try to figure out how to record, I heard it's pretty easy.
So, I am hoping to figure it out this weekend then I'll record and post my 130 BPM version.

Lars

Thorsten
09-10-2005, 10:22 AM
....I'd love to hear Thorsten's take soon.



You asked for it... ;)

Apple-Joe
09-10-2005, 11:32 AM
You asked for it... ;)

Do you have a band?

I had to listen to it over and over, maybe 7 times, straight after the first listen.

Disciplined, structured playing. What did you to towards the end? Sounded very "different". Some kind of a diminished/augmented sequence?

EDIT: It's a great inspiration listening to a track like this. Makes me think that it is possible to reach extreme levels.

UKRuss
09-10-2005, 04:05 PM
LMAOOOOOOOO LMAO LAMO LMAO!!!

After I'd finished laughing with pure glee at Thorstens take i then did this for 10 minutes:

:eek:

Then I started laughing again, then i was committed.

After managing to convince the authorities I am sane, I have been practicing ever since:

Whats the BPM there TK? 220+ 240+? Who knows...

It's a few months/years away for me yet!

but i shall enjoy trying to get there!:D

tucker97325
09-10-2005, 04:07 PM
Don't worry Thorsten, not everyone can improve. If you get much faster it might just sound like one giant bend!

UKRuss
09-10-2005, 04:54 PM
LOL! A-J.

I just caught the fact you asked TK if he has a band... nice one.:D

Apple-Joe
09-10-2005, 05:24 PM
LOL! A-J.

I just caught the fact you asked TK if he has a band... nice one.:D

Heh. I delivered an understatement there, wouldn't you say.

tucker97325
09-10-2005, 05:27 PM
Do you have a band?I heard Thorsten is only 7 years old, and plays in the school band. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

UKRuss
09-10-2005, 05:57 PM
OK, not to be intimidated by Thorstens take, I plod onwards.

What a difference a day makes!!!

A bit of hard practice night/day and i squeeze few more BPM out.

Russ clean at 165BPM...tried 170 but ti wouldn't work:(

Anyway 140>165 is ok by me in one day:D

Apple-Joe
09-10-2005, 06:15 PM
OK, not to be intimidated by Thorstens take, I plod onwards.

What a difference a day makes!!!

A bit of hard practice night/day and i squeeze few more BPM out.

Russ clean at 165BPM...tried 170 but ti wouldn't work:(

Anyway 140>165 is ok by me in one day:D

Sounds very clean and structured. I have to try this one myself. Great ending - nice phrasing going on, and this time you hit that nice ending chord.

Santuzzo
09-10-2005, 11:05 PM
Still can't get that microphone working properly .... :mad:

I'm using a microphone that was actually for a mini-disc player, and it seems to have too little sensitivity ... I already cranked up the recording level to the max, but still there is hardly any sound at all :( :rolleyes: :mad:

Anybody here know about that stuff?
I thought maybe I just need to use a 'normal' microphone, maye the microphones designed for mini-disc players have a different sensitivity .... :confused:

Anybody knowledgeable about this stuff???
And help would be appreciated !!!!

Thanks,

Lars

tucker97325
09-10-2005, 11:21 PM
Has anyone worked out what Thorsten's time was???

Russ, 175!!! That's 100 over mine. :D :D

Microphones? Microphones? We don' need no stinkin' microphones!!!
If you have a line out from your amp, you can probably run that to the line in on your soundcard. You might need an adapter.

Santuzzo
09-10-2005, 11:44 PM
Microphones? Microphones? We don' need no stinkin' microphones!!!
If you have a line out from your amp, you can probably run that to the line in on your soundcard. You might need an adapter.

I hate the sound when recording through line .... that's just horrible ....

I do want to use a microphone to get at least a somewhat decent sound ...

I don't have any recording equipment, not even a good soundcard, just the standard built-in soundcard .... and no software to make a line-recorded guitar sound good .....

:rolleyes: :( :confused:

So, I need to record with a microphone :D

tucker97325
09-11-2005, 12:24 AM
Okey Dokey then, good luck.

UKRuss
09-11-2005, 06:16 AM
Has anyone worked out what Thorsten's time was???

Russ, 175!!! That's 100 over mine. :D :D

Microphones? Microphones? We don' need no stinkin' microphones!!!
If you have a line out from your amp, you can probably run that to the line in on your soundcard. You might need an adapter.

lol, only 165....so you can rest easy!:D

Santuzzo
09-11-2005, 08:59 AM
Okey Dokey then, good luck.

Thanks, dude, I'll need it !!

(Or maybe I just need a different microphone ;) :rolleyes: :D )

BBQLS1
09-12-2005, 12:03 AM
Hey guys, I'm new to the forum. Hey James.


Anyway, I started out this exercise and I'm at 120bpm. The change in postition is killing me. I even had to try a different fingering on the first sets where the notes are a whole step apart. Good exercise James.


Jake

tucker97325
09-12-2005, 01:29 AM
...The change in postition is killing me. I even had to try a different fingering on the first sets where the notes are a whole step apart. LOL, I'm having the same problem, check out the fingering positions UKRuss suggested.

BBQLS1
09-13-2005, 12:07 AM
LOL, I'm having the same problem, check out the fingering positions UKRuss suggested.


I got it a little better now. I'm also trying to concentrate on the pick hand and keep my pick in the same postition at all times (not letting my fingers move the pick).

I hit a wall at 140. I can pick it, but not repeatedly.

JailHouseRock
09-13-2005, 05:43 AM
I'm going to set up my metronome and start measuring my playing, but how do I measure it? 3/4 , 4/4 ? One note per click or 3 notes per click? :confused:

tucker97325
09-13-2005, 06:51 AM
I'm going to set up my metronome and start measuring my playing, but how do I measure it? 3/4 , 4/4 ? One note per click or 3 notes per click? :confused:It appears to be written in 3/4. Three sets of 1/8 triplets per bar.

Of course the other option is to play along with the PowerTab, and set the time signature in there.

szulc
09-13-2005, 01:35 PM
Typically since it is 1/8th note triplets you would set the metronome for 1/4 notes and each click would have three notes. Guy's don't underestimate the power of recording this to hear how it actually sounds instead of how you think it sounds. I suspect most of you will lower your speed to make this sound cleaner when you actually record it and listen to it. The way I execute this passage I use my 4th finger (Pinky) to slide up from 12-13 to turn it around to the second staff and descend, then when I return to the beggining staff I slide down with my index finger. I still pick every note even though these are actually slides, really more as position shifts.

Buebo
09-13-2005, 07:05 PM
Ai caramba!

I knew my picking wasn't up to scratch but I didn't I sucked THIS hard at playing with a metronome :( .
Anyways here is my take playing along the file at 160. The 3/4 time was really killing me. Well lets just say there is a lot of room for improvement ;) .

Greets, Buebo.

steve0192
09-14-2005, 07:15 PM
Hi all,

There was no mention of needing to use a pick and I do alternate my picking fingers :D

This is about my limit, when I push the metronome further things start to mess up badly..

Steve

UKRuss
09-14-2005, 07:18 PM
Nice Steve...surely you mean 172BPM though???

I saw 72 and thought...Steve? Nahhhhhhh, he must go a bit faster than that.

Nice and clean dynamics.:D

UKRuss
09-14-2005, 07:20 PM
ps. nice take also Buebo! Clean and tight!

steve0192
09-14-2005, 07:58 PM
Nice Steve...surely you mean 172BPM though???

I saw 72 and thought...Steve? Nahhhhhhh, he must go a bit faster than that.

Nice and clean dynamics.:D

I'm playing 9 notes a beat, so the equivalent would be 216

I used http://www.metronomeonline.com/ as my metronome and that stops at 208..

Steve

UKRuss
09-14-2005, 08:58 PM
I'm with you. nice speed.

tucker97325
09-14-2005, 09:13 PM
WOW!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Santuzzo
09-15-2005, 12:09 PM
I also practiced this SAP exercise in sixteenth-notes.
You guys should try that, it sounds really different, due to the 'accent-shifts', because when played in groups of four rather than three you always have a different note of the pattern on the beat. You'll have to slow down the metronome accordingly, though.
At first this might be tricky, but when you got used to the sound, it's really cool !

Lars

tucker97325
09-15-2005, 02:18 PM
I also practiced this SAP exercise in sixteenth-notes.
You guys should try that, it sounds really different, due to the 'accent-shifts', because when played in groups of four rather than three you always have a different note of the pattern on the beat. You'll have to slow down the metronome accordingly, though.
At first this might be tricky, but when you got used to the sound, it's really cool !

LarsAm I confused? I thought three sets of 1/8th triplets in 3/4 was equal to nine 16th notes in succession?

Santuzzo
09-15-2005, 02:27 PM
Am I confused? I thought three sets of 1/8th triplets in 3/4 was equal to nine 16th notes in succession?

Sorry if I caused confusion, I guess I didn't explain very clearly what I meant.

So let me try again:
The way James set up the exercise you play a sequence/pattern of 9 notes. These are meant to be played in e 3/4 meter and in triplets, that means, you play three notes per beat. This way the sequence fits perfectly into one bar of 3/4.

Now I tried the exercise using sixteenth notes, .e 4 notes per beat, but I didn't change anything of the meldic sequence itslef, just now that it doesn't fit perfectly into the new divison of 4 notes per beat, it's gonna sound different, and it seems to 'shift'.

If this doesn't make it any clearer, I'll try to tab out what I mean on powertab this weekend.

Lars

szulc
09-15-2005, 02:39 PM
What Lars is talking about is "Accent Displacement" I have an article about this on this site. Basically you play a motive based in one meter in a different meter and that causes the places where accents should be to be moved to a different place. In this case on the first of every triplet to the first and fouth of the first set of sixteenth notes and the third of the second set of 16th notes , the third of the third group of 16th notes, the second of the fourth group of 16th notes, then the whole pattern repeates and so on...


See this article: http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/101

tucker97325
09-15-2005, 02:54 PM
Well, I'll admit when I first saw this exercise, I was accenting the triplets. But after listening to the PowerTab, and everyone's takes, I must say I'm not "hearing" any accents. Just a steady stream of what I hear as 16th notes.

EDIT: Ok, I get it now.:D (I had the clicker turned off.) The 16th note thing doesn't work at all for me, in 3/4 or 4/4. It's just too weird.:p

UKRuss
09-16-2005, 07:40 PM
Fed up with clean takes holding me back, i cranked up the JS and opened the distortion to record this take at 220bpm.

Hey, its not my fault, TK and Steve0 got me in the mood:D

Santuzzo
09-16-2005, 07:53 PM
:eek: :eek: :eek:

Hey, Russ,

Man, that's some serious speed !!!! :eek:

Awesome, dude !!!

UKRuss
09-16-2005, 08:01 PM
Cheers Larsdude!

Check this one though. SDDomething else I've been doing with this one is trying to do two parts in harmony, i find it helps to focus on the picking. not only the gnome to stay in time with but also your other guitar part.

Here's one in 5th part harmonies at 190bpm

Apple-Joe
09-16-2005, 09:06 PM
UKRuss: The distorted recording is wild! I imagine your entire body was shaking while in the middle of the playing.

EDIT: steve - I am impressed that you could play that with your fingers. Inspiration.

UKRuss
09-16-2005, 09:11 PM
Thanks A_J, bu no you can rest easy, my fingers (and body) were nice and relaxed.

i dunno why distortion makes it so much easier to play at speed, but it does. There ain't no way I could play 220bpm clean.

Apple-Joe
09-16-2005, 09:17 PM
Thanks A_J, bu no you can rest easy, my fingers (and body) were nice and relaxed.

i dunno why distortion makes it so much easier to play at speed, but it does. There ain't no way I could play 220bpm clean.

I don't think we physically play that much faster. What I do think, on the other hand, is that the distorted sound makes the adrenaline pump a little bit faster which leads to a slight improvement in effort. You'll play more energic, while at the same time, it will sound a little faster than it would without distortion.

tucker97325
09-16-2005, 09:47 PM
Easy enough to find out. Use a splitter, so you hear the distortion while you're playing, but record it clean. Then see what the clean channal sounds like.

BTW, I think I've increased my speed on this piece substantially. I haven't actually timed it yet, but I'll bet I'm knockin' on that 80 BPM mark already.:p

steve0192
09-16-2005, 10:40 PM
Fed up with clean takes holding me back, i cranked up the JS and opened the distortion to record this take at 220bpm.

Hey, its not my fault, TK and Steve0 got me in the mood:D

:D :D :D Brilliant Russ!

There's nothing like a having fun with a bit of bit mindless shred, it does the soul good!

I love hearing people not taking themselves too seriously and just enjoying music. Its part of what it's all about for me.

UKRuss
09-17-2005, 07:51 AM
Then see what the clean channal sounds like.

errrrrr, no i don't think so;)

However, I'm revving up for the big one: Tonight I shall be attempting 250, backwards, lefthanded and inside the dishwasher. Would be that be enough to warrant a large fonted "wow" Friar?:p

I think that should do it.

Cheers Steve, you have restored my humour in the practice process.:D

On a serious note though, running this practice has seen an excellent accuracy improvement in general in my playing, which after all, is the aim of the game eh?

mattblack850
09-17-2005, 08:41 PM
I won't post mine, but I'll tell ya, I can do it clean at between 75 - 80. I feel like such a failure.:(


I'm with you here Tuck!!!
Can you give us a lift to base camp with you??????
Must be something about us old Bluesers, we just like taking it easy!!!!:D
I can just about get it fluent at 85, I will post one when I get a decent take!!!

So, how much time a day are we supposed to spend on this?

Stratosaurus
09-18-2005, 03:38 AM
I'm having a hard time with it, too. I'm stuck at 130 maximum. I tried it using economy picking and hit 210. But alternate picking is just hard for me. We really don't use this technique in blues.

UKRuss
09-18-2005, 08:01 AM
So, how much time a day are we supposed to spend on this?

You mean you are not on it 24/7?

I am...I may be alone, but what the hey. I am driving my family up the wall with this pattern LOL,:cool:

mattblack850
09-18-2005, 10:29 AM
I'm having a hard time with it, too. I'm stuck at 130 maximum. I tried it using economy picking and hit 210. But alternate picking is just hard for me. We really don't use this technique in blues.

I agree with you Strat dude!!
It's not something I ever use to excess!!

Hey Russ, I can just imagine all the repetitive patterns wailing away from the music corner!!!!

I have to say, the hardest bit for me is getting the left hand moving up to speed!!! I spent around an hour on it last night and got from a very steady 75-80 bpm up to a heady 115!!!
So, 40 bpm in an hour, that's some good improvement right there!! Right??? hahahaha!!!:D

UKRuss
09-18-2005, 10:57 AM
joking aside, that sounds like good improvement to me man. 40 bpm in an hour has got to be good.

even if you tweak another 1bpm a day, you still gonna end up faster one day eh?

in fact it's wierd snt it, if we tweak one bpm a day...where does it end?

hey! imight try it and see what happens...

:D

Santuzzo
09-18-2005, 11:14 AM
Russ, you're da man !!!!

It's pretty amazing how much you increased your speed on that exercise within this short time ....
AWESOME dude !

I wish my speed would improve half as fast as yours ..... :rolleyes:

UKRuss
09-18-2005, 11:19 AM
wel, yes and no dude.

my clean take is still under the 200 mark, but distorted i can fly

I think it has to do with the pressure required on the strings. distorted I can really just touch down and move on, but clean you have to linger longer.

Anyway, tonight I shall be going for my last crazy speed take on this exercise, then back to clean:D

mattblack850
09-18-2005, 11:37 AM
joking aside, that sounds like good improvement to me man. 40 bpm in an hour has got to be good.

even if you tweak another 1bpm a day, you still gonna end up faster one day eh?

in fact it's wierd snt it, if we tweak one bpm a day...where does it end?

hey! imight try it and see what happens...

:D

Yeah, I know what you're saying!!! I think my starting problem was just getting the coordination between Left and Right hands!! Funny thing is, this exercise is more for people to build up RH technique and I'm finding it more useful for my LH!!!! My aim is to get a fluent 120-125 by next weekend!!

UKRuss
09-18-2005, 04:21 PM
I really see it as a syncing exercise between both hands I must say, thats the real benefit I've got out of it. Focusing on the timing and two handed element.

It would be very cool if you hit that 120 mark goal!!! Go for it dude!!!

This last week, I've been playing it morning, noon and night...even in my sleep sometimes, I'm sure I had a dream about it where i just couldnt get the pattern right at all LOL.

Back to work tomorrow though....speed decreases...practice time shortens..left hand weak...feeling...drowsy...must......rest...ARRRRGG GHHH.:D

UKRuss
09-18-2005, 07:55 PM
This is my final take for this exercise I promise!!

Simply because if I play it again in this house I will be murdered.

240bpm.

mattblack850
09-18-2005, 08:27 PM
FFffffaafaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


*Chin on floor*


Well, I may get to half that speed by Weds!!!!!;)

JohnJumper
09-18-2005, 08:40 PM
I am no UKRuss - 240 that is nuts. You and TK are insane!!! I think i have a bit of high speed envy there... Well here is mine at (compared to you two nuts...) a wimpy 170. Lets see if I can improve the speed over the next month ( and drive my wife crazy in the process!). I have been stuck where I am for a few months now. This is a good motivation thread - I must say!! It gave me a kick in the pants this morning when I read through it!!

gersdal
09-18-2005, 08:44 PM
This is my final take for this exercise I promise! Simply because if I play it again in this house I will be murdered. 240bpm. Well, I'm impressed. I checked out this strictly earlier today, and had after some runs I managed 120bpm (still with occational ehhh passing notes - on purpose of course ;) ). Not much to brag about. Maybe I can make a decent 120 bpm take by Wednsday, as MattBlack750 is planning.

Snail-man G :rolleyes:

mattblack850
09-18-2005, 08:46 PM
Well, I'm impressed. I checked out this strictly earlier today, and had after some runs I managed 120bpm (still with occational ehhh passing notes - on purpose of course ;) ). Not much to brag about. Maybe I can make a decent 120 bpm take by Wednsday, as MattBlack750 is planning.

Snail-man G :rolleyes:

Yo G!!!
I've lost 100cc!!!???!!!;)

gersdal
09-18-2005, 08:49 PM
Yo G!!!
I've lost 100cc!!!???!!!;)
Sh**. I'm just trying to drag you down towards my own 650 ;) .

Edit. Added my 120bpm file.

UKRuss
09-18-2005, 09:10 PM
I don't think I have TK's accuracy or chops, but I'm getting there with the speed!:D

Santuzzo
09-18-2005, 10:50 PM
Ok, I got it up to 140 BPM now ....

Tried it at 150 and 160 too, but those had some slight sloppy mistakes ....
But I set 160 as my goal for the end of the month....this should be realistic ....

Still can't record .... haven't had the time to go out and get a 'normal' microphone yet :rolleyes:

I could try though to record with my MD-microphone, but then I have to crank up the amp like hell .... now I can't do that, it's almost 1 am over here .... :rolleyes:

Cool exercise, James, and a great thread.
Nice to see how everybody gets his BPM up !

Lars

schematics
09-19-2005, 12:28 AM
This is my final take for this exercise I promise!!

Simply because if I play it again in this house I will be murdered.

240bpm.


Here I am at ~250 RPM :D :D :D

I'm having a heck of a time playing that position shift on the G and B string (and back) going up though.

Thankfully I don't have to play stuff like this too often (or never.......).

BBQLS1
09-19-2005, 02:39 AM
Working on it when I can. Been working on my car. I have been trying to iron out the picking hand. How do you fast guys pick? Do you do it with your wrist and keep the pick just above the strings moving as little as possible and not moving your fingers that hold the pick? Just looking for some insight.

UKRuss
09-19-2005, 08:58 AM
Nicely done schematics, I know it's not your usual thing:D

Re: the technique aspect, Lars was asking me last night about the wrist vs arm movement question and I have to say I've never really analysed it. But I had a quick look at whats happening as I was chatting with Lars and I came up with this conclusion for my own approach.

First I dont anchor the right hand although the side of my palm is always very close to the body of the guitar or touching it or touching the strings for some palm muting. I leave the minimum amount of pick required showing beneath my thumb and index/middle fingers with which I grip the pick. Then when going down across the strings I angle the pick so the tip is point back up towards me slightly, when coming back up the strings it points down slightly.

My wrist then does the AP while my arm is moved from the elbow to create the movement of the position of the hand over each string, this movement is a kind of slow steady continuos sweeping movement.

I have no idea if this is in anyway good/bad right/wrong. It wasn't a method taught to me it's just how I do it and I thought I would analyse it and write it down.

ashc
09-19-2005, 10:04 AM
Blimey this has gone insane! Not been around much lately but I have had a few 15 min blocks on this in the last ten days since my last clip. I've gone from 115 to a "maybe" 125, and in the same time Russ has picked up 100 bpm!!! Though it was anyway time to put another point on my curve which I expect to start flattenning out very soon.

BTW, Thorstens repeats appeared to take 5 secs, so (60 / 5) X 24 beats is 288bpm!

UKRuss
09-19-2005, 12:44 PM
...picked up 100bpm distorted, but still good fun!:D

That take of yours there Ash is mighty clean and accurate!! Great picking!

TK!!! 288....LOL. You kill me man!:p

ashc
09-19-2005, 01:01 PM
Thanks Russ - Distorted maybe, but mighty fast work from some of you guys.

You, and the other folks who are ripping this, might want to go and try James' earlier 3 string group linear C major exercise from the original group effort thread. That'll slow you up! :D (TK posted a clip on that one too which is a bit daunting).

UKRuss
09-19-2005, 01:06 PM
Yeah, I remember there are some trickier ones there...

Hey James? Time for a new exercise?

szulc
09-19-2005, 02:11 PM
The original exercise was on each group of 3 strings, this was much more difficult and I believe it was keeping many from participating. A variation of any of these exercises is to play the patterns descending on each string (321) but acesnding through the string group (or vice versa). The normal exercise is just 123 on each string ascending or 321 on each string descending. Variations that are useful are 213,231,132,312 these will definitely slow you down. The nice thing about these is they can sound more musical.

UKRuss
09-19-2005, 02:49 PM
Cool. That all sounds like good practice!

I have been trying a 1-3-2 type variation of this one and yep, slows me down it does!

Santuzzo
09-19-2005, 09:34 PM
Yeah, I remember there are some trickier ones there...

Hey James? Time for a new exercise?

A new exercise already now ???? :eek:

Help ! ;)

I still have to work on the first exercise, and I feel I'll need at least another month on it until I feel anything like 'ready' for a new exercise :rolleyes:

I guess I'm a slow learner when it comes to speed improvements :( :rolleyes:

But that's ok, I still improve, and that's the whole point of it ! :) :D

Keep shreddin' dudes :D

Lars

BBQLS1
09-20-2005, 01:34 AM
I'll be working on this for a little while. I really think my picking attack has been holding me back. Now that I am trying to change it, I find that the accuracy at higher speeds needs to be relearned in my hand. I'm happy that I am finding my flaws and can work toward making them better.

UKRuss
09-23-2005, 11:29 AM
A new exercise already now ???? :eek:

Help ! ;)

I still have to work on the first exercise, and I feel I'll need at least another month on it until I feel anything like 'ready' for a new exercise :rolleyes:

I guess I'm a slow learner when it comes to speed improvements :( :rolleyes:

But that's ok, I still improve, and that's the whole point of it ! :) :D

Keep shreddin' dudes :D

Lars

Dude, if you get to 160 for the end of the month that'll be some serious improvement! Work at your pace, don't worry about what anyone else is doing.

Shred on!

mattblack850
09-23-2005, 11:44 AM
Well, I'll either post later today or tomorrow, but I've done it!!

I set myself a target of 120 for Weds and I have managed to get to a steady 125 instead!! Wow, the heady heights of speed, eh????
I'm thinking of starting a NON-shredders club, who's with me in the ""I can't even hit half Thorstens Speed"" club??:D :D

ashc
09-23-2005, 12:28 PM
I already started that club, but I could maybe affiliate to yours as well :D

125 was my last posted effort, 130 is my new target - slowly but surely... I tried it with some distortion (which I almost never do with these kind of exercises) and 140 sounded pretty good - amazing what it hides cause my 130 clean is barely passable.

tucker97325
09-25-2005, 05:21 AM
Okay, I'm here to dazzle you all!!!

Ok, maybe not dazzle. And not like right now, but that's only because I don't feel like setting up to record at the moment.:rolleyes: However, my beginning "clean" time was a flaming hot "75"!!! And if any of you happened to listen to it, you know it wasn't really very clean. But I was just practicing it again, clean(meaning no distortion), against the PowerTab at a blazing "110", and hit the notes much better and cleaner than I did even at 75. I tried for 120, but I'm having trouble at that speed right where it changes from ascending to descending. But, that has always been the most difficult part for me anyway. I guess I really should practice it more, but about 20 minutes a day is all the time I can bring myself to spare for it. (I have too many new toys to learn about.)

I will attempt to record and post it tomorrow. (No doubt I'll have trouble reaching 110 with the record light flashing.)

ashc
09-25-2005, 02:22 PM
I hit 130 (maybe).. curve is flattening out now.

Spino
09-25-2005, 06:15 PM
Hey Guys
I wanna get in on this.. to help boost my speed/Technique ,but I ain't no shredder,I just spent 30 mins on this with the Acoustic ..have'nt tried the Electric yet, and got it up to 135 clean 140 is a bit messy. Not bad! surprised myself ...room for improvement ...can't post tho . Sh*t. I can't playback any of the clips either I'd really like to hear Torsten. I think I'm gonna try this on the Bass too :D

Santuzzo
09-27-2005, 11:26 PM
Hey, alternate pickers !

I'm still working on the exercise ....
Now I'm like at 140 BPM, sometimes I get 150 BPM clean, too.
I tried 160, too, but that's not quite as clean as I want it to be, yet.

I have noticed, by practicing this exercise (almost) everyday for about 10 min. , my progress is slow BUT steady !
Anīd I still enjoy practicing this exercise !!! :D

Peace,
Lars

tucker97325
09-27-2005, 11:42 PM
Hey, alternate pickers !

I'm still working on the exercise ....
Now I'm like at 140 BPM, sometimes I get 150 BPM clean, too.
I tried 160, too, but that's not quite as clean as I want it to be, yet.

I have noticed, by practicing this exercise (almost) everyday for about 10 min. , my progress is slow BUT steady !
Anīd I still enjoy practicing this exercise !!! :D

Peace,
LarsI like this exercise too, and I, like you, I have noticed significant progress in how fast I can play the exercise. (From 75 to about 120) But, I'm really not sure the progress is coming from better alternate picking. It seems to me I'm just getting better at playing this pattern. The alternate picking hasn't really been an issue for me, my problem was learning the pattern. (Especially that whole thing going on between the 2nd and 3rd strings.)

So, I guess my question is this; Is this exercise actually benefiting me in any real way? Other than to say "I can play this pattern really fast!"???? I mean is this transferable to anything else I might play?

Santuzzo
09-27-2005, 11:50 PM
I
So, I guess my question is this; Is this exercise actually benefiting me in any real way? Other than to say "I can play this pattern really fast!"???? I mean is this transferable to anything else I might play?

Well, I think, you can definitely benefit a great deal from this exercise, as it will help you with 3 note per string scale patterns in general.
If you use 3 nps scale patterns in soloing, this exercise will for sure help you a lot !

In my opinion this exercise is aimed at 'shred'-style playing .....
Like many 'shredders' (Paul Gilbert, Vinnie Moore, etc.) use 3nps scalar patterns in their soloing a lot !

Greetz,
Lars

MattW
09-28-2005, 09:46 AM
So, I guess my question is this; Is this exercise actually benefiting me in any real way? Other than to say "I can play this pattern really fast!"???? I mean is this transferable to anything else I might play?

That's basically why I haven't got round to submitting anything for this. I found the excercise so specific that I couldn't be sure that it was really being benificial so I ended up trying to isolate the parts that I found difficult and I started to play little patterns that included these in a completely non diatonic sense.
I know that some people think that it is always better if this kind of practice is musical, e.g it has some melodic quality and is strictly diatonic, but I disagree, I know can practice things which are much more effective for the musical qualities than some scalic runs (no disrespect to this thread as it was almost certainly intended to improve our technical facility as opposed to what we can do with that technique), but I like to simplify things as much as possible when I am concentrating on improving a particular part of my technique, as long as that doesn't actually prevent it from being applied in a musical context.

szulc
09-28-2005, 12:44 PM
Read My Article called Difficult Picking Exercises

http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/84

JohnJumper
09-28-2005, 02:38 PM
I have my speed upto 184 from my starting sppeed of 170. I don't think I need to record it because you have heard it all previously in this thread... I think this is very benificial. I used a similar exercise using the mixolydian pattern and I use it when I am improvising (or parts of it). I never really use the whole thing but when I hear a dramatic fast run in my head my improve is right there on my finger tips. Throw that in every once in a while leading into a melody note and it really adds to the energy of the improv!! It took me quyite a while before I could really use this in my improv. It always sounded akward. I just kept practicing the exercises an then one day I was able to fit it in...

UKRuss
09-28-2005, 02:50 PM
Yeah! I like 'em because frankly I like to hear fast scalar runs, I know some find them a little boring but I like 'em!

Matt, any examples of what you mean about the kind of exercises you do?

MattW
09-28-2005, 03:17 PM
I'll post a couple in a bit, I'm just off to get some more plectrums.:D

ashc
09-29-2005, 08:23 AM
When I've worked on this I didnt spend all the time on the specific exercise but instead applied the same and similar ideas to all of the 3NPS shapes. You can link them all together up and down into one monster exercise. Good for me because I'm weak on 3NPS stuff as I've mainly used the diatonic "box" patterns and I'm a bit limited on stretch capability as a result - working on this stuff in the last few weeks I can play my 3NPS faster than diatonic box patterns already! (the irregular number of NPS on those makes them quite awkward).

MattW
09-29-2005, 09:21 AM
UKRuss, basically if I came across a problem area I would try to isolate it and work on that, for me initially, since I rarely use strictly alternating picking, the problem areas due to the right hand were all basically due to instances of inside picking, they are as follows (highlighted in red):


-d-u-d--u-d-u--d-u-d--u-d-u--d-u-d etc...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------8-10-12----
--------------------------------------------------------8-10-12-------8-10-12------------
------------------------------------7-9-10-------7-9-10--------7-9-10--------------------
---------------7-9-10--------7-9-10-------7-9-10-----------------------------------------
--------7-8-10--------7-8-10-------------------------------------------------------------
-7-8-10----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


So it was clear that the problem areas are all located in 2 specific areas on the way up (and by 2 areas on the way down). So to me it was logical to practice those sections, but to isolate the right hand aspect of the problem almost completely I played it in just one shape repeatedly (but on all different strings):


-----------------------------
-----------------------------
-----------------------------
--------7-8-10--------7-8-10-
-7-8-10--------7-8-10--------
-----------------------------


Once that area became less of a problem I looked at the next area which was causing most problems in the excercise for the right hand, which would be all other instances of a string change (outside picking)...so out came the old PG lick (I should add that for the inside picking problems I also played the PG lick starting on an up pick).

Then I started to look at the left hand problems and played repeating patterns that incorporated the position shifts that I found most tricky at higher speeds. I think I've probably managed to add about 100 bpm to the speed I can do the exercise at without actually playing it, by just using focused practice to improve the areas that were holding me back. I think of it as simply a case of I can only play the whole exercise (or any other) as fast as the speed I can do the bit I am worst at. If I can do some of it at 300bpm it's no help initially if I can only do another section at 50bpm. (Mild exaggerations;))

tucker97325
09-29-2005, 09:29 AM
Yeah! I like 'em because frankly I like to hear fast scalar runs, I know some find them a little boring but I like 'em!

Matt, any examples of what you mean about the kind of exercises you do?Well, I'm just learning to appreciate fast scalar runs, and really never thought I would be capable of them. I still feel that way, although since beginning this exercise I can see myself getting much faster than I was.

I guess I asked the wrong question. The point of my question was supposed to be about calling this an "Alternate Picking" exercise, when it seems, for me at least, that the "scale pattern" is the more difficult thing to master.

Anyway, leave it to me either confuse, miss, or misconstrue something at least once a day.:D (It's in my contract!)

ashc
09-29-2005, 09:37 AM
Hey Tucker, I agree that at first these 3 NPS scale forms are more of a Left Hand challenge. Once the speed gets beyond a certain point the Right Hand problems seem to cut in... Try playing them legato too!

MattW
09-29-2005, 09:48 AM
Hey Tucker, I agree that at first these 3 NPS scale forms are more of a Left Hand challenge. Once the speed gets beyond a certain point the Right Hand problems seem to cut in... Try playing them legato too!

I suppose everyone is different, I find this much easier when played as legato.
I don't know if either you or tucker were referring to anything I said in your posts, but I did include a mention of the left hand being a limiting factor at some point (with the position changes), I just didn't think there was any need to go into the same detail as I did about the alternating picking.

ashc
09-29-2005, 10:04 AM
Hi Matt, my response was to Tucker. I can actually usually play these faster myself with legato now as well - but initially that was definitely not the case.

MattW
09-29-2005, 10:25 AM
Ah ok, and as Tucker said, 'Anyway, leave it to me either confuse, miss, or misconstrue something at least once a day.:D (It's in my contract!)' that applies equally well to me!:D

szulc
09-29-2005, 12:53 PM
The article I mentioned (Difficult Picking Exercises) addresses these and other related issues. My limiting factor has always been inside picking (I think that is what UKRusss is calling outside picking, basically when your pick stays between the strings you are changing between) The difficult picking exercises really isolates these and other problem areas. The main purpose of this thread was to get people introduced to a common (hopefully easy) patterns to all use as the same yardstick to measure (their own) progress on. Yes, it gets easier after you practice it because you learn the picking and left hand pattern. Yes, it is not very musical or useful. The main thing is it gets you to think about your problem areas with this type of passage and the difficulty of AP part is exaggerated by the fact that the patterns are in groups of three strings FORCING you to swap the starting stroke on each motive. By introducing some of the variations I mentioned previously (by request) you can make some much more musical sounding phrases and keep with the SAP pattern (picking wise they are identical). Those other ideas will slow you down (even if you are Thorsten!), and give some variation to an otherwise boring exercise. I strongly suggest doing this with the other 3NPS patterns and even with pentatonic and other types of scales. In general getting this type of picking pattern into your hands (and head) will help with playing fast passages and remove some of the common speed bumps.

MattW
09-29-2005, 01:10 PM
I have read the article but I was just replying to UKRuss' request give some examples of how I approached the subject. To be honest I think we look at these kinds of problems in a similar way, even though it was good and informative article, due to the way I address these challenges there wasn't really anything in there which I don't already do or consider.

The excercise you posted for this thread does highlight the problems but for me I would rather isolate them more than the excercise itself does, but there is no reason why anyone else should have to or even if it would be remotely effective for them.

I know that the excercise was never intended to be particularly musical, just to improve our technique and allow us to achieve more complex or faster musical expressions than we may have previously been capable.

Regarding the different variations you mentioned, I do actually do those already too, and yes they are certainly more tricky but I think that with a reasonable amount of practice they should be possible to play at the same speed as the original pattern, mainly because as you will probably know, any sequence of 3 notes repeated always resolves to some ascending or descending pattern, 2 3 1 for instance:

2 3, 1 2 3, 1 2 3, 1 etc...

szulc
09-29-2005, 01:17 PM
The difficulty (for me) lies in the fact that although the pattern is just an ascending or descending one the terminating note (of the ascending or descending sequence) lies on a different string. For some unknown reason this messes with my mind in a similar way to executing these as 16th notes or with plain accent displacement. I am not really sure why it works this way and maybe it doesn't for other people. It could be that the main pattern is so "burned in" that it is a hard habit to break.

MattW
09-29-2005, 01:22 PM
The difficulty (for me) lies in the fact that although the pattern is just an ascending or descending one the terminating note (of the ascending or descending sequence) lies on a different string. For some unknown reason this messes with my mind in a similar way to executing these as 16th notes or with plain accent displacement. I am not really sure why it works this way and maybe it doesn't for other people. It could be that the main pattern is so "burned in" that it is a hard habit to break.

I think you've probably hit the nail on the head about it being 'burned in' as you rightly pointed out there is very little physical difference between the two patterns, so it either comes down to what we are used to or possibly some more permanent hurdle that the human brain has to overcome.

BBQLS1
10-03-2005, 02:00 AM
I made a bit of a breakthrough today. I think I got my picking on the right track. I used to pull my hand away from the guitar as well as move the pick up and down. I started "bouncing" the pick off the strings and the picking got better, then I got the mechanics right and worked out the "bounce". I'm hitting 180, but I need to polish it. I will publish it once I have it clean.

forgottenking2
10-03-2005, 04:44 AM
193... which means I am actually in worse shape than I was last year (chops-wise) I'll get it back up to 200... if I have the time to practice it.

eastwood
10-03-2005, 07:35 AM
135

Will try for 140 today - have only just tackled this exercise and it will be interesting to see where this one leads

Daz

eastwood
10-05-2005, 10:40 AM
145 last night so that still moving in the right direction....

Gonna nail this mother

Daz

Santuzzo
10-05-2005, 11:48 PM
I just got it ok at 160 BPM, but it's still like 'one day ok, next day not...' so I still need to stabilize the 160 ....
I found it beneficial to even try to hit 165 or 170 and try as hard as I can to get it, even if it's sloppy, and then go back down to 160 ....

I still progress, even if my progress is slow, I DO imrpove, and that alone makes me happy ! :) ;) :D

I also tried to play it clean and then distorted to feel the difference ....

Hang in there alternate pickers !!!! :D

Lars

itzfast
10-06-2005, 04:57 AM
you know not long after i embarked on this quest to improve my technique back in lets say june of this year i came upon this post, i am not sure if it was this forum but someone wipe went on about how you shouldn't waste your time trying to get at 180 or 200 bpm and that most people have a ceiling and that if you are stuck at 120 or 130 bpm give it up because that is the best you are going to do. my advice is this. Dont believe it! i was very discouraged when i read that post because what he described resembled me. stuck at 120 bpm and never really satisfied with my progress. a voice inside of me then said bullsiht and at that point i had to ask myself 2 questions. practice doesn't make perfect. perfect practice makes perfect. so have i done all the right things or am i practicing wrong? next question is do i practice often enough? my answers to both these questions were No. first off my picking technique that i used at that time kept me from ever being able to achieve the results i hoped for so after some research and experimenting i found a picking technique that could take me where i want to go. as far as how often i practice with a metronome well let me spell it out for if you are practicing every week or so don't even bother cause' the juice ain't worth the squeeze. so how often? everyday! thats right everyday! that's what it takes. even if it's a stupid 15 minutes every day. someone posted a comment that said it's better to practice scales 15 to 30 minutes a day than 5 hours every week or so. anyway take that for what it's worth and know this. if you have normal motor skills and your faculties, you can get there. perfect practice, every single day. i am inspired today because i am just starting to see the fruits of my hard work and let me tell you nothing can be more satisfying.

BigBagBill
10-06-2005, 08:02 AM
Wow, some of you guys are smokin man. Just found this thread, give me a couple days to get this to my maximum and then i'll start posting what i got.

UKRuss
10-06-2005, 08:32 AM
Lars!!!!!

160?!?!? you see? Smokin' speed!! You didnt think you would get even there, now i expect to see a 200+ take by the end of the year.

I notice James was talking about inside/outside picking, again I have to say it's something that was really new to me. I never had even heard about it much before i came to IBM. It had been a long time since i read any guitar mags and all that.

If i did refer to it at some stage it was prolly a new analysis for me, but i have to say, it' not something i think about much when I'm picking. I always consider it a part of EP rather than AP.

But again if you can minimiseyour movements between strikes of the pick, yuo're gonna be faster eh?

nice to see such an interest in this exercise though, great stuff everyone!!:D

itzfast
10-06-2005, 05:14 PM
somebody please tell me how to record myself and then post it. i have a pretty decent computer and a microphone that came with it so i am pretty sure i have every thing i need i just don't know how to record myself so that you guys hear. also i am pretty skeptical with some of the claims people make as far as how fast they are but one thing is for sure UKROSS is the real enchilada. damm that guy smokes. thats what i am striving for.

tucker97325
10-06-2005, 05:52 PM
somebody please tell me how to record myself and then post it. i have a pretty decent computer and a microphone that came with it so i am pretty sure i have every thing i need i just don't know how to record myself so that you guys hear. also i am pretty skeptical with some of the claims people make as far as how fast they are but one thing is for sure UKROSS is the real enchilada. damm that guy smokes. thats what i am striving for.It all depends on what software you have. You probably have at leaast the sound recorder that came with windows. Look under accesseries, then entertainment.

I don't know why you're so skeptical about anyone's speed claims. I hit the 300 mark yesterday, but missed just a few of the notes.:D :D :D

itzfast
10-06-2005, 08:39 PM
thanks for the info and as far as why i am so skeptical it's because most of the guys that go on about how they can play 280 to 300bpm never record there technical prowess unlike ukruss. spare me the pain, show me the baby. thanks again for your info.

mattblack850
10-06-2005, 08:49 PM
thanks for the info and as far as why i am so skeptical it's because most of the guys that go on about how they can play 280 to 300bpm never record there technical prowess unlike ukruss. spare me the pain, show me the baby. thanks again for your info.

Fear not!!! You will never hear me claim ridiculously high speeds!! I can get it clean at about the 140-145bpm, but I struggle at anything over that!!!

Recording wise, download Audacity from www.sourceforge.net (http://www.sourceforge.net) it's freeware, and there's a few of us here that use it!
If I can use it anyone can, believe me!!!!;) :D

UKRuss
10-07-2005, 12:09 AM
thanks for the info and as far as why i am so skeptical it's because most of the guys that go on about how they can play 280 to 300bpm never record there technical prowess unlike ukruss. spare me the pain, show me the baby. thanks again for your info.

Thanks dude. I like to put me money where me mouth is...or should that be guitar!:D

itzfast
10-07-2005, 02:25 AM
sound check4th attempt

MattW
10-07-2005, 08:05 AM
Thanks dude. I like to put me money where me mouth is...or should that be guitar!:D

Don't, the paint just tastes nasty. :p

Santuzzo
10-07-2005, 08:07 AM
Lars!!!!!

160?!?!? you see? Smokin' speed!! You didnt think you would get even there, now i expect to see a 200+ take by the end of the year.

I notice James was talking about inside/outside picking, again I have to say it's something that was really new to me. I never had even heard about it much before i came to IBM. It had been a long time since i read any guitar mags and all that.

If i did refer to it at some stage it was prolly a new analysis for me, but i have to say, it' not something i think about much when I'm picking. I always consider it a part of EP rather than AP.

But again if you can minimiseyour movements between strikes of the pick, yuo're gonna be faster eh?

nice to see such an interest in this exercise though, great stuff everyone!!:D

Thanks , Russ !!!

But last night, I tried again, and I could not get it clean at 160 :(
Still needs work .... some days it's going better, other's not so well .....

But 200+ :eek: :eek: :eek: Honestly, I don't think I'll make that by the end of the year, al least not THIS year .... ;)
I can't even tremolo pick that fast :(

But who knows, maybe I can do it at 200+ by the end of one of the other years to come .... :rolleyes:

Steve-0
10-12-2005, 04:37 AM
Thorsten is picking triplets at a little under 250bpm there. Thats sextuplets at 125bpm.

Chris Impelliteris fastest recorded speed clock in at a little over 170 or so and he's one of the fastest guys around. That means Thorsten only a 50bpm slower!! HOWEVER the Impelliteri instructional in which he plays that fast was a MUCH simpler and more straight forward riff that moves straight from the top E to the bottom e. This one repeats notes, jumping back and repeating in every measure, notably complicating the lick.

Since this is a harder lick (not to mention I think Thorsten has yet more speed up his sleeve we haven't heard yet) I would say he could pick a simpler riff, sextuplets, at around 140 or more with not too much difficulty. Combine that with the fact that he uses it all in a melodic way.

HOLY SH**!

Dude! How long have you been playing?? You're a madman!

That's it. You've achieved nirvana in your playing. Quit. Stop it. Leave this mortal coil and give the rest of us a chance!

tucker97325
10-12-2005, 01:36 PM
Thorsten is picking triplets at a little under 250bpm there. Thats sextuplets at 125bpm.....

Dude! How long have you been playing?? You're a madman!

That's it. You've achieved nirvana in your playing. Quit. Stop it. Leave this mortal coil and give the rest of us a chance!No!!! Don't leave Thorsten!!! Your playing is inspirational (not to mention, so fun to listen to.) If anything, post more often. I think it's important to hear what CAN be achieved by seriously applying oneself.

It would be interesting to hear how long, and how hard you've been playing to grt to this point in your playing. Maybe post some of the exercises you've practiced over the years. (If you've already done that, just point to the link.)

Keep it up T, you're great!!

Thorsten
10-12-2005, 07:40 PM
Wow!!! Again, what can I say but THANK YOU!!!

How can I not post occasionally when I get such a great response from you guys?! You are awesome!!!

Steve O, yep the whole speed thing is pretty much relative, simply because thereīs some licks youīre able to play faster than others. I think itīs just important how they sound like, so one should really use the ears while playing instead of just checking the bpm on the metronome. But yeah, I think I could kick Chris Impelliteriīs a** anytime...! (j.k. ;) folks! Music is no competition!)

Tucker, I wish I had the time to post more often. I really have fun playing here but on the other hand, of course, I donīt want anyone to get sick of me so letīs just leave it to occasionally...

Well, Iīve been playing for a loooooong time now (26 years) and thereīs really too many exercises to mention. If anything, the classic "string crossing" lick (check ptb) helped out my alternate picking a lot. Iīve posted many licks so far on this web-site. Just do a search on "Thorsten" and youīll find many threads...

About practicing: Play as much as you can! I know there were times for me where I practiced 12 hours (or more) a day. You have to live it!

Cheers
TK

Steve-0
10-12-2005, 10:31 PM
About practicing: Play as much as you can! I know there were times for me where I practiced 12 hours (or more) a day. You have to live it!

Cheers
TK

There have been days when I've gotten inspired (or gotten insomnia) and practiced twelve hours a day with only one or two breaks to input food and output waste. It's fun but the next day the callouses are all torn up and the fingers are stiff. But about five hours in you get so warmed up that you can easily play far beyond your abilities, basically you can play whatever you want. It's awesome. Too bad it only works out that way once or twice a month.

I practice consistantly five or six hours a day, which works good for me. If I stay focused and spend lots of time with the metronome I do ok.

Santuzzo
10-14-2005, 11:08 PM
I just got back to the SAP exercise after not having practiced it for about a week or so ....

Well, of course, then I should not be expecting too much improvement :rolleyes: , I actually expected the oppsite, I thought my BPM would be much lower than like one week ago when I still did the exercise almost every day for like 10 minutes ....
I was positively surprised that I could stll get it up to 160 BPM (not really 100% perfect at thet speed yet :( , but I'm almost there :rolleyes: ).
For a change I practiced it to a drum computer, set on a new-jack swing beat (16th note shuffle-beat), so basically I had it on 80 BPM and I was playing sixteenth-note triplets. This feels cool, because then you shift the 3 groups of 3 notes each ....

I set my goal at 180 for the end of the year !
Maybe that's too high, but I'll try to get there, still gor 2,5 months :)

Happy shredding, dewds :D

Lars

Steve-0
10-15-2005, 12:10 AM
Actually that 180bpm sextuplets vid was a Theodore Ziras clip. I had thought it was Chris Impelliteri but it's TZ. He's super quick and smooth.


I just ate macaroni and cheese and it was good.:confused:

JohnJumper
10-30-2005, 05:18 AM
I am just barely making 200BPM right now... :eek: ...Its ugly right now but it is there - so that is a month and a half to improve 30BPM - I think by next week 200BPM will be comfortable...

furiousnewf
11-05-2005, 11:46 PM
OK, here's my take... at approx 250 bpm. My time goes out of synch a bit... So I know its something to work on.

I thought I heard somewhere that your max AP speed would be as fast as you can tremelo pick. Has anyone been measuring that as a goal?

JohnJumper
11-06-2005, 02:33 AM
OK, here's my take...

:eek:

Steve-0
11-06-2005, 03:12 AM
OK, here's my take... at approx 250 bpm. My time goes out of synch a bit... So I know its something to work on.

I thought I heard somewhere that your max AP speed would be as fast as you can tremelo pick. Has anyone been measuring that as a goal?


Very Nice.

My full articulate speed of that clip is somwhere just over 210 now and I've been climbing the metronome for a while now.


Your maximum possible speed you can play a lick AP is equal or less than the fastest speed you can tremolo pick a single string.

Michael Romeo said that I think.

Crucifix
11-06-2005, 06:18 PM
OK, here's my take... at approx 250 bpm. My time goes out of synch a bit... So I know its something to work on.

I thought I heard somewhere that your max AP speed would be as fast as you can tremelo pick. Has anyone been measuring that as a goal?

If you can tab that out I would really appreciate it. I need to work on my Alternate Picking.

mattblack850
11-06-2005, 07:00 PM
If you can tab that out I would really appreciate it. I need to work on my Alternate Picking.


Yo dude, the tab is at the beginning of the thread, click on the 'View article' at the top of the page!!!

I'm still trundling along at around the 145 BPM that I knew I could master!!!
Next week????
146!!!!!:D :D

furiousnewf
11-06-2005, 08:36 PM
a little bit faster than 250

JohnJumper
11-06-2005, 11:12 PM
Wow!!! 280!!! But now your just taunting us!!! ;)

furiousnewf
11-06-2005, 11:18 PM
Hah... Now I just have to clean it up. Still doesn't have the control I'd like.

Chud
06-24-2006, 11:43 PM
a little bit faster than 250


I don't wanna put a downer on here man, but this thread was about accuracy and to my ears those clips aren't entirely accurate. I mean, it's good you can play up there like that but it's covered in thick distortion and to my ears sounds unaccurate in certain places.


Anyway, I can just about do like 205bpm but i have to tense up and it's not entirely accurate (i'm playing with no distortion). I'm trying to work on not tensing it up to around 190bpm and onwards. Without tensing i can get up to 180 accuratly.

In lateral shifts EG:


e--------5-7-8---------7-8-10--etc
B--5-6-8-------6-8-10-----------


I can get that up to about 240bpm with inside picking. I would suggest trying that aswell for an alternate picking exercise. Mucho useful! :p

KingV
07-26-2006, 12:03 PM
dude, if you use "inside picking" in the way i am just thinking of, you dont use real alternate picking

szulc
07-26-2006, 01:56 PM
Why do you not consider inside picking "real" alternate picking?
If you start on the B string with a down-stroke and the next note is on the G string and you use an up-stroke , you are using alternating picking and you pick is between (inside) the B and G strings. Now if you do the same thing starting with and up-stroke you are outside the B and G strings. I find inside harder most of the time but I find either hard when I am switching from inside to outside or outside to inside. What kind of inside picking were you thinking of?

KingV
07-26-2006, 06:39 PM
oh sorry, i thought you meant like doing 3 nps and making downstrokes everytime...(3 nps end with downstroke and next string downstroke too)

...sry...got you wrong there!

everything is fine buddy!

i wonder why ppl stopped posting in this thread...

and why is there not such a thread like "strictly tremolo picking" ...even theres no big sense about it, its quit interesting what those uber shredders around in this forum can tremolo pick

regards,
joscha

Santuzzo
11-19-2006, 02:34 PM
Hey alternate pickers :)

It's been a while, huh?

I just had a look at this thread last night and I thought I'd like to get back to the alt. picking exercise.
It was a really cool thing how everybody got involved and improved.

Anybody else interested in getting back to this group effort?

I might work on some more basic picking exercises (single string stuff for that matter) first .....

Lars

UKRuss
11-19-2006, 04:37 PM
S'up Eisbar?

I think I may have actually got slower...

perhaps a new variation of the exercise?

Santuzzo
11-19-2006, 04:40 PM
S'up Eisbar?

I think I may have actually got slower...

perhaps a new variation of the exercise?

Dewd !

I think I have lost some BPM on the exercise for sure as well.....
I remember I had it somewhere up to 160 after a good warm up ....
I'll try it tonight and see where it's at ...... gotta get back to 160 and then finally (which was my goal for the end of the year 2005, well ......) 180 ....
Maybe I'll get it by the end of this year ....uuhhhmmmmm, only about 6 weeks left...ok, probably not then ..... :rolleyes:

Giorgi
03-02-2007, 11:55 PM
hey guys i'm new around here :)

I didn't learn the lick yet, but here' me trying to play the PG lick.. first it's 76bpm, then I go 100bpm (get slop because i can't do that yet..) and then back to 92bpm :)

just wanted to ask if it's clean or not? :confused:

(btw it's all sextuplets)

tucker97325
03-03-2007, 12:09 AM
hey guys i'm new around here :)

I didn't learn the lick yet, but here' me trying to play the PG lick.. first it's 76bpm, then I go 100bpm (get slop because i can't do that yet..) and then back to 92bpm :)

just wanted to ask if it's clean or not? :confused:

(btw it's all sextuplets)
Sounds clean, sounds pretty quick. When are you going to do the whole thing?

Giorgi
03-05-2007, 04:49 PM
Sounds clean, sounds pretty quick. When are you going to do the whole thing?

Hi! :)

Thanks :)

I will practice some picking today, don't think I will learn the whole lick but I'll try. Prolly post something this week ;)

tucker97325
03-05-2007, 04:57 PM
Cool, but you've got some competition. I think I topped out doing the whole thing at about 60 BPM. Now that's quick. :rolleyes:

Giorgi
03-06-2007, 05:46 PM
Cool, but you've got some competition. I think I topped out doing the whole thing at about 60 BPM. Now that's quick. :rolleyes:

:D


wait .. you mean 60..... :eek:








how the heck is it possible :confused:



:mad:

Floating Pick
03-28-2007, 10:16 AM
Nice tab. I'll use this to speed-up my alt. picking.

Much love,
ST

furiousnewf
02-17-2008, 04:28 PM
Here's a video thats close to this exercise

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=22313460054&oid=2509615970

Wash & Burn
07-08-2008, 10:36 AM
This is good. I've dropped economy picking, and turned to strict alternate.

hishoes
07-15-2008, 12:56 PM
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hishoes
07-15-2008, 01:05 PM
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szulc
08-15-2008, 02:33 AM
Here is a little AP exercise that uses an easy left hand pattern Am Hybrid scale.
The difficulty for me is the lick feels is in groups of 4 (16th notes). So far I am unable to get this clean above 170. When I listen back clean 16ths at 170 seems pretty respectable, but lately I have heard some ridiculous things online.
There is some guy on youtube that plays the flight of the bumblebee at 320.
I would be pretty happy If I could get this clean up to 220.
There are two versions both Am Hybrid. I find the 134 version harder to get up to speed than the 124 version.

heavymental
08-25-2008, 06:11 AM
Hello All!

This is my first attempt at the original alternate picking pattern. It's 100 bpm. Recorded direct into FL-Studio thru my PodXT and my Gibson Les Paul Studio. This should be fun! I've listened to most of the previous posts. Good job guys!;)

Thanks!
heavymental

vorpal_sledge
05-01-2009, 12:39 PM
Hello, first post!
The first thingy is the exercise being sight read, and the second one is after about thirty minutes of practice. I dont know how fast it is, cause im a sloppy musician :( But, i do know my weakness is position shifting. Any suggestions

heavymental
05-01-2009, 03:38 PM
Hello, first post!
The first thingy is the exercise being sight read, and the second one is after about thirty minutes of practice. I dont know how fast it is, cause im a sloppy musician :( But, i do know my weakness is position shifting. Any suggestions

Hi vorpal_sledge,

Good to see you here!
I enjoyed listening to your posts, keep it up.

A few suggestions:
- practice slower at first paying attention to detail
- try to let the notes ring out for their entire note duration so they don't get cut short
- as far as the position shift goes, isolate that movement with just the notes before and after the shift. practice this at a snails pace to get the motion down perfectly
- then put it all back together, starting at a snails pace, then gradually increase speed

I hope this was helpful,
heavymental (Glen)

Khaer
09-14-2012, 12:12 PM
Hey Szulc, thanks for starting this thread and posting your exercises (and thanks to all of you who have contributed to this thread).

About two or three weeks ago I was searching the net for some complex guitar exercises to boost my technique with a nice workout. To my disappointment, I didn't find any that were hard enough. Instead, I found this thread and I thought that I'll try them out and see if they're suitable for some of my studens (I'm a guitar teacher, among other things). To my surprise I noticed that I can't play some of them at high speeds, even though I considered them easy at first. I've included the exercises in my practice routine and since then I have noticed a nice improvement in my playing - my favorite chops now sound crisper and more even, I no longer try to "legato my way" out of a difficult spot when improvising and I feel more confident overall when playing.

For a long time I thought that imperfections in my technique (god damn pesky string skipping with an upstroke) had to be fought with more and more demanding and complex exercises. Instead, getting back to the basics sorted it out for me real fast. This was an important lesson for me.

So, in plain words:

Remember to always check if your basic techniques are on par with more advanced things that you're practicing. It might be just your playing fundamentals lacking that's holding you back, not the difficulty of the piece you're trying to master.

Greetings from Poland and thanks again.

szulc
10-05-2013, 05:13 AM
Hey Szulc, thanks for starting this thread and posting your exercises (and thanks to all of you who have contributed to this thread).

About two or three weeks ago I was searching the net for some complex guitar exercises to boost my technique with a nice workout. To my disappointment, I didn't find any that were hard enough. Instead, I found this thread and I thought that I'll try them out and see if they're suitable for some of my studens (I'm a guitar teacher, among other things). To my surprise I noticed that I can't play some of them at high speeds, even though I considered them easy at first. I've included the exercises in my practice routine and since then I have noticed a nice improvement in my playing - my favorite chops now sound crisper and more even, I no longer try to "legato my way" out of a difficult spot when improvising and I feel more confident overall when playing.

For a long time I thought that imperfections in my technique (god damn pesky string skipping with an upstroke) had to be fought with more and more demanding and complex exercises. Instead, getting back to the basics sorted it out for me real fast. This was an important lesson for me.

So, in plain words:

Remember to always check if your basic techniques are on par with more advanced things that you're practicing. It might be just your playing fundamentals lacking that's holding you back, not the difficulty of the piece you're trying to master.

Greetings from Poland and thanks again.

I am glad that I could provide you with some useful exercises. Inside picking, outside picking and swapping these using SAP is one of the best things to get past these hurdles. I haven't posted here in a while, I have spent the last several years trying to get my vibrato under control. I have recently released some live recordings that I am pleased with that demonstrate my effort. It is a still a long way to get to Uli Roth type vibrato but I have made great strides...

szulc
10-05-2013, 05:14 AM
Hey Szulc, thanks for starting this thread and posting your exercises (and thanks to all of you who have contributed to this thread).

About two or three weeks ago I was searching the net for some complex guitar exercises to boost my technique with a nice workout. To my disappointment, I didn't find any that were hard enough. Instead, I found this thread and I thought that I'll try them out and see if they're suitable for some of my studens (I'm a guitar teacher, among other things). To my surprise I noticed that I can't play some of them at high speeds, even though I considered them easy at first. I've included the exercises in my practice routine and since then I have noticed a nice improvement in my playing - my favorite chops now sound crisper and more even, I no longer try to "legato my way" out of a difficult spot when improvising and I feel more confident overall when playing.

For a long time I thought that imperfections in my technique (god damn pesky string skipping with an upstroke) had to be fought with more and more demanding and complex exercises. Instead, getting back to the basics sorted it out for me real fast. This was an important lesson for me.

So, in plain words:

Remember to always check if your basic techniques are on par with more advanced things that you're practicing. It might be just your playing fundamentals lacking that's holding you back, not the difficulty of the piece you're trying to master.

Greetings from Poland and thanks again.

I am glad that I could provide you with some useful exercises. Inside picking, outside picking and swapping these using SAP is one of the best things to get past these hurdles. I haven't posted here in a while, I have spent the last several years trying to get my vibrato under control. I have recently released some live recordings that I am pleased with that demonstrate my effort. It is a still a long way to get to Uli Roth type vibrato but I have made great strides...