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UKRuss
04-30-2005, 01:11 PM
Yeahhhhh! We got our own space for some serious strictly work!

I thought we'd start off with something new and trying to add it to something we've already done in the "strictly" series.

The following track is made up of two parts: Verse/Chorus arrangement which repeat.

The verse is Emaj Fmaj7#11 which repeats.
The chorus is Gmaj D/F# Fmaj Emaj

Some I'm sure will recognise the verse progression which featured in Part 3 of Jorge Maldonados article on Exotic Scales (http://www.ibreathemusic.com/article/160). If you didnt check it out, check it out now!! You'll need to equip yourselves with that information. (A quick thanks to Jorge who was happy for me to make reference and incorporate his ideas).

The other thing to notice is the chorus features a slash chord. D/F#, a 1st inversion Dmajor in the open position. The reason for this is to create a chromatic descending bassline:

G F# F E

The phrase I have built over the verse uses the Phrygian Dominant.

You'll recall from the Strictly Phrygian that E Phryg contains no sharps or flats but here we have an Emaj chord featuring the major 3rd G#.

E Phrygian Dominant also includes the G# : E F G# A B C D E.

As Jorge explains we can therefore employ this scale over the Emaj (EG#B) Fmaj7#11 (FACEB) progression.

I have not focused particularly heavily on the G# in my phrase but it gets the feeling across. See the powertab for the breakdown of my phrase which includes an old school pedal point type section which runs down the scale nicely I think. You can also see the G#s standing out in the score. Sparse but fairly sprinkled throughout.

Then in the chorus section again we have a number of chioces using basic major barre chords. I've elected to go to G mixolydian: G A B C D E F over the G major to remove the G# sharp from the Phrygian Dominant scale and fit it over the Gmajor but at the same time keep the scale closely related, i.e we're only changing one note.

As we go to the D/F# , D major inversion, I play a single string ascending scale run which I believe could be best described as D mixolydian ( ok I know I put the D# passing tone in at the end...) again only needing to introduce the F# into the scale to make it fit.

D mixo D E F# G A B C. i.e. only changing one note.

Then on the F major I descend in the same way slowly on one string.

Going E D C B A then finishing on an E again as we finish the chorus on Emaj. This is F Lydian over the Fmajor chord. F Lydian : F G A B C D E again only changing one note to make it fit.

At the end of the first chorus I pull a fairly standard major pent lick in E which links back to the verse well and adds a bit of humour. After the second verse I replace it with an Eminor pent lick, which although played over a Emaj ringing chord, doesn't seem too out of place.

I haven't attempted to create too much tension, if any really, but Jorges article points out many ways you could, and scales you could use. Gypsy scale? Lydian b2? Just be careful with those C#s!

I know some of the note players may focus on chord tones as you go or arpeggios, but whatever your tools:

The challenge is to strictly create a melody over the progression coming up with alternative, and hopefully exotic, scale choices and explanations for why what you do works.

Enjoy!

Schooligo
04-30-2005, 06:34 PM
This is so very Helpful!!

Thank You :D

UKRuss, thank you for all the effort in this thread

I especially think the detailed explanations and your examples via the powertab notation are particularly helpful.

I know it was more work to be as detailed but well worth it when conveying the message.

Thank You IBreatheMusic.com you are the very Best!!!

Bande
04-30-2005, 08:31 PM
Whhhhhoooaaah, Russ, COOL!

In my opinion this is your best piece so far. Russ, you have a great musical knowledge, and you're a very very good musician! You have all my appreciations! It is cool that you have a great theoretical knowledge!

Ibreathe! It was a very cool idea to start a separate forum for strictlys. Now we have our own space to work in! Ibreathe, you're the coolest!!!

Oh, and Russ: I'm heavily thinking about trying this one. Because (as you know) I'm not a very good improviser, especially when it coles to melody (you know me - too many notes, too little sense:( ). And the other thing is that I mostly play rock and absouletely not familiar with other scales than major, and its modes. (mostly I use aeolian). Well, hell, maybe I'll give it a try but I know myself, so I guess my take won't be "srtrickly melody".

sixstrings121
04-30-2005, 10:15 PM
Wow this stuff is extremely helpful. When messing around with it I get new ideas and learn new things. Thankyou guys sooo much for doing this, really. I think I'm ganna try a take on this one soon.

btangel
05-01-2005, 03:10 AM
AWESOME!!! Oh man congrats Russ to getting your own section this forum pretty much :D GOOD JOB!

Necromortis
05-01-2005, 03:16 AM
Hey :) I'm going to try this as soon as I quit this damn game of Monopoly with my sister :P I'll be editing this post with my recorded file pretty soon.

JohnJumper
05-01-2005, 04:26 AM
Here is my attempt - no fireworks but I think there is a melody there... UKRuss - you rock!! congrats on your own forum concept being implemented!!! You deserve it with all the work you put into these tracks!!! They are really fun!! Thanks!

UKRuss
05-01-2005, 07:08 AM
Thanks for the kind comments guys, but hopefully I won't be the only guy posting strictly's.:cool:

Personally I'm really hoping some of the Jazz guys will post something for us to learn from. I'd really like that cos my Jazz sucks big time!

Nicely worked there JohnJ, what scale is that? I thought I detected a note or two that I didnt use, maybe I'm wrong but? Great Tone btw!

@Bande, you've got the skills dude, just try working through the theory on it which hopefully is not too far removed from the mode strictly's we did. Once you uinderstand it I'm sure you'll find it easy to come up with something of your own:D

satch_master
05-01-2005, 10:27 AM
WHOA! i miss out on the forums for one day and oh my god! EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED AND RUSS HAS GOT HIS OWN STRICTLY SECTION ON THE FORUM NOW! isnt it funny what started as a "striclty pentatonic" by one inventive man called Russ once a time ago has now become an ibreathe tradition and has its own section. This is crazy stuff. congrats russ.

UKRuss
05-01-2005, 12:29 PM
Thanks Satch and thanks for your PM!

BUT Just to re-iterate though, it's not just my forum. Everyone can put together a strictly for submission and I really hope people do!

So much to learn from each other!

JohnJumper
05-01-2005, 03:28 PM
Nicely worked there JohnJ, what scale is that?

I used a Phrygian scale with a major 3rd instead of the minor third called a Phrygian Dominant.

I attached the tab for the scale...

Necromortis
05-01-2005, 04:06 PM
Yeah, that's what Russ used as well I believe.

Anyway, here's my take at it. Listening to it...uggh, my improvisation sucks. And I should have recorded it better :P Anyway, forgive the recording quality.

Here's a quick breakdown of what I did:

Over the verse, I used the E Phyrgian Dominant scale, like Russ and JohnJumper did. That scale is E, F, G#, A, B, C, D, E. It's nice because it fits over the Emaj chord and the Fmaj7#11 with the G#.

Over the first four measures of the chorus (the Gmaj and D/F# chords) I opted to use the E Dorian mode. It fits over both those chords as well. The scale is E, F#, G, A, B, C#, D, E. A nice sounding scale, and as I said before, it goes with the Gmaj and the D/F#.

For the next two measures (Fmaj chord) I play an F Mixolydian lick that I'm quite proud of. Sounds pretty nice, slightly mesmerizing. Unfortunately, some of it is lost in the recording process. That scale is F, G, A, Bb, C, D, Eb, F. Again, it fits tover the F, A, C notes of the Fmaj chord.

For the last two measures in the chorus (the Emaj chord) I used the E Lydian mode to play a descending and then ascending run to spice things up, I'm rather tired of E Ionian scales. That scale is E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E.

Well, that's it, what do you think.

UKRuss
05-01-2005, 06:53 PM
I used a Phrygian scale with a major 3rd instead of the minor third called a Phrygian Dominant.

I attached the tab for the scale...

Ah it was phryg dom, my ears were playing tricks. I thought I heard other notes too... nice though.:D

UKRuss
05-01-2005, 07:13 PM
Hi Necro!

Nice shot. If anything I'd have to say a bit more variety in the rhythm and some vibrato or accenting woudl transform the feeling of the piece.

Some nice scale choices and thanks for playing the rules and giving the full explanation!

BUT:

The scale you describe as E Dorian over the Gmaj is surely G Lydian and then changes into D Ionian over the D/F#?

G A B C# D E F# G (G major scale with sharp 4th)

D E F# G A B C# D (D Major scale, Ionian)

Worth revisiting for another look? Same scale as E Dorian both of them but different starting points and different chords underneath them changing the modal aspect of the scale.

Also the E Lydian scale you've written down is actually Emajor, the Ionian scale. The Lydian would have a sharp 4th, A#, too.

Not sure if that's a typo, but thought I'd point it out.

RandyJ
05-01-2005, 08:35 PM
Awsome work dude!That's actually a very cool one!Keep it up!;)

satch_master
05-01-2005, 10:49 PM
:cool: Ok this took my a while to do, not bad i suppose. I stuck on E phyrigian Dominant except for the other riff, which i just made a melody using my ears, sorry russ all those mixolyidian and lyidan scales confused the hell out of me , and especially having to change each scale on the chord changes.:confused: Atleast i can make ok melodies with my ears:p . Oh well, i learnt how to use a scale by harmonising the rhythm chords into it , so that helped me understand about that alot, like the E maj and the FMaj 7 add 11, how you put there chord tones together and find an appropiate scale to solo over. Hope you like the bass solo, something different i suppose. Ive been playing alot of bass lately(the instrument that i started on) so im getting back into my roots at the moment, im still a better bassist than gutarist any day:D .
Doesnt really sound spanish, well i tried, thats Los Boleros's job. I can bet my money his gonna rip the **** out of this track, i cannot wait to hear him play:D

Necromortis
05-02-2005, 04:14 AM
Thanks for the compliments. Once I played it back, I do think some variety would be helpful. Anyway, it was a first try for improvisation, so, I'm pretty happy overall.

Argh, sorry, that E Lydian scale error was a typo. I'm almost positive that I'm using the E Dorian scale in that lick. The notes in that lick are B#, A, C, and A#. Actually, I don't think that that is the E Dorian scale...

UKRuss
05-02-2005, 06:34 AM
Thanks Satch, nice take. I thought your Phrygian licks were plenty spanishy. actually I liked the speedier bit you did towards the end best, very tasty. almost flamenco type runs.

dig the bass!:D

if i'm not mistaken you using good ol G major scale over the G section, which wiould make it D mixo over the D/F#.

Necro, what you've got to consider is Dorian is a minor scale. E dorian would contain the G natural minor 3rd. over our E major containing the major 3rd G# that could sound nasty!:eek:

it defintely dosent contain A# though...and I don't know where the B# comes into it.

E Dorian is the second mode of D Major, D major only has two sharps in it F# and C#.

On the other hand if the lick works and your happy with it then thats all good too. But it does pay to analyse.

From an improv point of view, dont be too hard on yourself. you developed a theme and worked some ideas and thats what counts, ,the rest is just practice:D...and we could all do with more of that.

Factor
05-02-2005, 08:24 AM
Aha! thanks UKRuss, major kudos for the work you've put into this feature!

And the best thing about this track is that it practically screams for an acoustic steelstring guitar! Now, I just gotta get me recording possiblities again before Los Boleros comes in and steals the show :p

Interesting set of changes by the way. Did a bit of noodling over the backingtrack last night, and that was fun!

Keep up the good work Russ!

forgottenking2
05-02-2005, 02:40 PM
I actually played my first take finger style in a classical guitar I wish I could have recorded that take... it sounded great and the melodies were better than what I played on my electric. Here's my second take.

Here's a little bit of theory in what I did. On the 1st chorus I used exclusively E phrygian Dominant (E-F-G#-A-B-C-D) for the E-FMaj#11 part and for that cool bluesy/country progression with the descending bass line I used mainly E minor (E-F#-G-A-B-C-D)/E blues(E-G-A-Bb-B-D) and pentatonic licks, in the second chorus I spiced things up a little bit by throwing in some dorian b2 licks (E-F-G-A-B-C#-D) gotta be careful with that minor third though(I think I did use the min 3rd, that's the sour note you hear at one point. :p ), Gypsy scale (E-F-G#-A-B-D#) and I think I threw in a "melodic minor pentatonic" (That's what Joe Dorio calls it. It's spelled E-G-B-C#-D#) If I didn't Oh well it would've worked here too :D.

So there you have it, it sounds impresive in theory... not so much when I play it :p . Check it out guys.

Matze
05-02-2005, 03:30 PM
I'd like to point out, that it may be easier for some to think of the scales as harmonic minor and minor.

Over the verse section in the backing i'd play A harmonic minor. This is of course the same as E phrygian dominant, but is easier to remember for me thinking of it like that.

In the chorus part over G and D you'd get away with using E minor and E minor pentatonic (containing the f#), then switching back to A harmonic minor for F and E.

Mateo150
05-02-2005, 03:43 PM
I'd like to agree with Matze - I just started fooling around with it yesterday, and its definetly A minor/Cmajor to my ears, not Phyrgian dom... although I stay away from Phyrgian myself, I just don't like it. Also, if its considered A minor, this also makes a lot more sense considering that the bridge is G/D/E/F... this naturally is more a part of Cmajor.

Anyway, I've got some stuff to do today, but I'll try to record something later.

P.S. - to mods - Satch master has 2 duplicate posts, maybe we could clean that up a bit.

UKRuss
05-02-2005, 03:53 PM
Jorge, nice take my man and variation no the theme. I love the country type interpretation on the chorusy section. Nice!

Matze, yes a good way of intpreeting the scales in terms of recognisable patterns but, I would warn newbie theorists to think of it too much like that as it's confusing not to relate the scale to the chord ni the first instance.

i.e. How come A Harm min works over Emajor....they'll be thinking. We'll be saying, well its E Phryg Dom really but your borrowing patterns from a harm min.

It would be the same as saying D Dorian is C major. It is...but it isn't of course.

UKRuss
05-02-2005, 04:04 PM
I'd like to agree with Matze - I just started fooling around with it yesterday, and its definetly A minor/Cmajor to my ears, not Phyrgian dom... although I stay away from Phyrgian myself, I just don't like it. Also, if its considered A minor, this also makes a lot more sense considering that the bridge is G/D/E/F... this naturally is more a part of Cmajor.

Anyway, I've got some stuff to do today, but I'll try to record something later.

P.S. - to mods - Satch master has 2 duplicate posts, maybe we could clean that up a bit.

Of course! But is anyone gonna thank you for trawling out the inevitable? The listener likes a bit of surprise.

I could choose to run out the ol minor and major over every song I hear, but wheres the fun in that;)

mattblack850
05-02-2005, 05:41 PM
It is...but it isn't of course.

I'm so glad that's got that cleared up then!!:D

UKRuss
05-02-2005, 06:15 PM
errr. yes.

Rather than launch into one of those mode explanation type responses...I think I'll just assume we know what I meant.:p

Mateo150
05-02-2005, 09:15 PM
Here's my plain ole major minor take on it... I'm just not a super mode meister myself... maybe one day I'll be the mode meister bringing tha funin'

Nice fun backing:
Explanation:

Part 1 - noodling around the C note at 10th fret of d string

Bridge 1 - major pent, mostly arps

Part 2 - did a chord vamp, C9 or Edim --> Bb7 or E7 with b5 in root ---> E octave ... I suppose each chord functions as each, depending on whether its E or F in the backin

Bridge 2 - more major pents, a little bit of arps

Part 3 - E min pentatonic with a b6... a spanish magic quote at the end.

I must add I didn't really think theory while playing, these theory explanations are made in retrospect.

Schooligo
05-03-2005, 03:16 AM
My analysis of UKRuss's improvisation(I know that some of this is posted in UKRuss's detailed explanation but most of my analysis was done just by listening to his mp3 so I thought I would still include my analysis since he made the effort of a detailed explanation :D

the form of the chord progression is AABA

AABA form, we can look at the chord progression for the A-section as one unit, and the progression for the B-section as another.


meaning that the A part is repeated twice then it goes to a B part, then back to the A part: then repeats



The improvisation of the A part has a repeating Theme and incorporates an E pedal tone lick,

this whole A section is a good demonstration of keeping it simple, and using your theme as the A part.



I like how you incorporated your personality into the improvisation

and probably my favorite part is the lick and bend at 00:45-00:48 during the end of the B part(first chorus), it sounds like your having some serious fun there, also I think where you played that particular break part and what you played shows real "taste" as a musician.

Quote by UKRuss:
"At the end of the first chorus I pull a fairly standard major pent lick in E which links back to the verse well and adds a bit of humour."

I don't know about humour but I think it's quite a tasty little lick.

Thanks again, UKRuss :)

I've also been analyzing the improvisations in the strickly pentatonic thread, but since UKRuss was thorough enough to provide the documentation to the strickly melody thread I wanted to analyze this one first.

Also thanks to all who made the effort to give a DETAILED explanation of your improvisation, I promise I will also listen to yours since you made that effort and may share what I like about those improvisations.

These strickly improvisations are such a cool educational implemented idea!!!

satch_master
05-03-2005, 05:39 AM
Oh yeah, thanks russ, for digging it even though im not really pleased with it. BTW, Russ, i forget to complement you on how awesome your playing was on that track. Spanish and flamenco guitarist would choops us so badly but, ive seen them and there got crazy runs and stuff. At first, i didnt like your take that much, i thought it was OK, but its growing on me now, i love the melodies. Nice stuff, Russ dude. Another thing i lvoe about strictly is that it forces you to play or attempt(lol) to play many styles of music like blues, rock, spanish, funk. Otherwise id just play metal non stop! i cant help it.

Yeah we definately need a strictly jazz os something jazzy id say. Like a II V I progression with jazz chords and then we solo over the accompanoing chords, that should juice the theory of out us all, hehe, but i know jazz cats like factor would do a good job on the theory for us dumbos and make an awesome solo. hehehe.

rmuscat
05-03-2005, 06:55 AM
hey guys ....

here is mine ... 1st shot today (fiddled a bit with it a couple of days ago) ... 1st thing in the morning i can barely see what i'm typing lmao ... excuse my playing i didn't warmup a second lol

do or die :o

tabs coming up later on the in day. Some lame open string pedal tones really but i have been trying out some over the past days and said why not just use them no matter how lame lol its useless practicing them otherwise!

I went E Phrygian Dominant, G Ionian and i hinted a bit of b5 over the Fmaj7 (blues scale, "blue" note i prefer it black though).

Factor
05-03-2005, 07:19 AM
Listened to your take rmuscat!

I kinda agree with you on the pedal tone thing there. You have some great moments in that take though. Around 01:10 to about 01:30. That's just beautiful. It seems so familiar, and it fits the changes pretty well too :) It really feels as if the melody flows free with no "licks" if you know what I mean.

@satch_master
Hehe calling me a jazz cat? Thanks for the compliment but I mostly got stuff in my head. Not too good at getting it into my playing. I try though! Strickly jazz would be something...

UKRuss
05-03-2005, 08:08 AM
Loads to listen to and assimilate when I get home this evening.

I'm really pleased everyone is using different scales, thats' what it's about, what worked for you and why.

Thanks for the analysis Schooligo, spot on I think.

Thats also an interesting point from Mateo, although I know I was going to use the Phryg Dom in the first section, I did really improvise at first over the B section and then analysed it later. Clearly this piece was written and not improvised though and that makes it easier to analyse, change, re record etc.

I'm working on a second pentatonic strictly thread based on Chris Js article about new uses for minor pentatonic. The examples he gives are ii V i, and I suspect I shall follow that lead. So there we have it a ii V i and an opportunity for some jazz too! Not my strong point at all, but I'm willing to give it a go.

satch_master
05-03-2005, 10:49 AM
Rmuscat - i highly enjoyed that, your playing has sounded really good lately, i noticed apart from the fast shred stuff(you done in the past) you are a good guitarist and you got nice melodies and lines, my ears thoroughly enjoyed that! better than mine, thats for sure.

rmuscat
05-03-2005, 11:06 AM
thanks factor! too kind!

satch thanks for your complements (too much maybe? lol) :o

my "shred" (for want of better words) needs a whole lot of work. But in the meantime i make sure i don't cut back on the rest. I keep hoping that one day, if i keep pushing myself and applying all techniques i'll be able to play fast stuff decently. But i'm not sacrificing the rest for it.

Making melodies is a freakin PAIN. You spend a whole day with no idea what to do, wake up one morning BANG first take! so darn frustrating.

I'll post the tabs and check the rest this eve, i'm on practice break :D. The pedal point i stole from satch (the real one :p) unless you know them you'll find them fun i guess. nothing complex really. i like them a bunch.

I already told russ i loved his take, well structured, good improvisational moments, perfect for me. I'll check the rest ... i'm sure there's good stuff though! I do it to steal ideas lol ;)

Mateo150
05-03-2005, 12:28 PM
Wow, one take first thing in the morning with no warmup and its improvised... thats impressive Rob, steal the show with your pedal points from hell. ;)

Really, it sounded very composed and nice. I had a pretty good idea of what I was gonna play before I played it, I mean, play an F arp over F... stuff like that. I need to get myself some effects too, whatever you were using sounded great.

rmuscat
05-03-2005, 01:37 PM
thanks mateo!

here's the pedal tone guys. Its over the E Phrygian Dominant scale of course. The pedal note is the E.

What makes it sound cool is that when descending the playing intervals are ascending, and viceversa when going up.

I'll fight a bit with the main melody (my rhythmic transcribing sucks) and hopefully post it.

JohnJumper
05-03-2005, 06:32 PM
Nice one rmuscat! Looking forward to the transcription! I really like the pedal tone sections...

UKRuss
05-03-2005, 06:57 PM
Mateo, some lovely ideas going on there. i really liked that. Dont worry about the effects i thoght the tone was very tasteful, sounded great!

Bobby, top stuff. I loved that pedal tone lick too. I shall steal!

nice one!

Los Boleros
05-06-2005, 06:36 PM
Here's my take on this. Harmonic Minor is my favorite scale but I always take the opportunity to throw in as much Diminished licks as I can Squeeze in.:D (My trade mark I guese) The Descending Chord part sounds kinda corny. Just kinda following the chords. Have fun!

mattblack850
05-06-2005, 07:02 PM
Nice take Rudy!!!! I like that indeed!!

It's got a very BV Social Club vibe!!

Los Boleros
05-06-2005, 11:43 PM
Nice take Rudy!!!! I like that indeed!!

It's got a very BV Social Club vibe!!Thanks, the fact that you mentionsed BVSC, tells me that you are in tune to Quality music.:D

UKRuss
05-07-2005, 07:17 AM
Lovely Rudy!

I dig those dim licks!:D

mattblack850
05-07-2005, 03:53 PM
Thanks, the fact that you mentionsed BVSC, tells me that you are in tune to Quality music.:D


*Fonzie type* Hhhhheeeeeeeeyyyyyyy!!!
Do you know Radio Mundial, I think they're from round the 'Frisco area??

Carvinite
05-16-2005, 03:39 AM
Altough I have yet to post in a strickly thread I have been watching them pretty closley, and was wondering, clive if your reading this, could we move some of the old strickly's into this forum, I mean they have a great deal of instructional power on theory and things. It would be great if this was possible. Also, if I can ever figure out this theory buisness I will start doing these things, Because limitations really do bring out creativity!

-Ryan

PS: sorry if this has been suggested.

satch_master
05-16-2005, 07:56 AM
good idea carvinate. why dont u post clive a private message.

UKRuss
05-16-2005, 03:00 PM
I think it has been mentioned in the member feedback forum, and the idea is yes, they will be transferred.

Cool!

Carvinite
05-17-2005, 07:17 PM
the idea is yes, I just got the PM back from clive, he said the only thing is finding time to put it into the different formatt....

Leviathon
05-25-2005, 03:20 AM
Very nice Russ. Thanks for the Backing Track and lesson...

UKRuss
05-25-2005, 06:20 AM
Glad you liked it!:D

Hopefully get some time for some more soon...new baby...no sleep...practice time eroding....

Factor
06-03-2005, 03:43 PM
At long last, I bought myself some cables and recorded this.

Just ignore the hissing at the start ;)

Any comments whatsoever appreciated!

The melody at the start is premediated, but it's still cool.

UKRuss
06-03-2005, 03:49 PM
Cool Factor, I shall check it out this evening...oh no...wedding anniversary LOL, maybe tomorrow!

tucker97325
06-03-2005, 04:40 PM
Happy Anniversary Russ (and spouse)!!

Los Boleros
06-03-2005, 06:34 PM
At long last, .At long last, Factor speaks out.:D
You have a unique melody on this one. Can't wait to hear more.;)

Apple-Joe
06-03-2005, 08:45 PM
At long last, I bought myself some cables and recorded this.

Just ignore the hissing at the start ;)

Any comments whatsoever appreciated!

The melody at the start is premediated, but it's still cool.

This is what I wanted to hear. Playing over a progression not that static as the Phrygian, Lydian Strictly series, for instance.

In this, there are a couple of changes in the atmosphere, and it's refreshing to the ear. You perform great on this one. In the "verse", the feel is upbeat, but a little exotic. The tone is clean and satisfying as usual, but the technique is also one of the reasons why it sounds as it does.

Factor
06-03-2005, 09:21 PM
Thanks... As I said I kind of had played the melody from the start a few times before recording so it's not completely improvised.

As for how I thought when playing - During the Emajor Fmaj7#11 bit I try to tie the chords together with common tones like E and B, and I occationally threw in a F# over the E major chord.

Same with the "verse", focusing on the chordtones or arpeggioes of each chord.

Anyways, I appreciate the time you took to comment on my takes Apple-Joe.

UKRuss
06-04-2005, 08:44 AM
Happy Anniversary Russ (and spouse)!!

Why, many thanks Mr Tucker, we had a fine evening!

Factor, nice sound!

Now, we've always known you to be a focussed note player and that comes across in what your playing and how you described it, focusing on the chord tones. I like that and I respect it because i don't know all my notes on the fretboard :rolleyes:

But, if I had one critiscism it is that it sounds like your concentrating so hard on your note choices, you forgot to think about accenting and rhythm. What about some changes of pace? How about some rests? etc. I'm not sure i agree with Apple-joe's "change of atmosphere", I don't hear it, sorry.

Oh, edit: Would not be fair of me not to add that I agree with the guys, the melody in itself is very nice:D

Have another listen I think you'll see what I mean. Am I wrong?

Apple-Joe
06-04-2005, 11:45 AM
Why, many thanks Mr Tucker, we had a fine evening!

Factor, nice sound!

Now, we've always known you to be a focussed note player and that comes across in what your playing and how you described it, focusing on the chord tones. I like that and I respect it because i don't know all my notes on the fretboard :rolleyes:

But, if I had one critiscism it is that it sounds like your concentrating so hard on your note choices, you forgot to think about accenting and rhythm. What about some changes of pace? How about some rests? etc. I'm not sure i agree with Apple-joe's "change of atmosphere", I don't hear it, sorry.

Oh, edit: Would not be fair of me not to add that I agree with the guys, the melody in itself is very nice:D

Have another listen I think you'll see what I mean. Am I wrong?

OK, I'm listening to it over again. Let's see.

Maybe 'change of atmosphere' was a little dramatic expression. However, there IS something going on, and you, UKRuss the man (the creator of the backing track, wasn't it?) probably know what.

I just hear something a little refreshing after the short break, and the drum fill. It's like a little new progression which provides a new feel. But you're right, it doesn't change that much.

tucker97325
06-04-2005, 03:45 PM
Why, many thanks Mr Tucker, we had a fine evening!
You're welcome, glad you had a good time.



Factor, nice sound!

But, if I had one critiscism it is that it sounds like your concentrating so hard on your note choices, you forgot to think about accenting and rhythm. What about some changes of pace? How about some rests? etc. I'm not sure i agree with Apple-joe's "change of atmosphere", I don't hear it, sorry.
Russ, it seems to me there might be a few people who would benefit, almost as much as I, by a Strickly thread regarding "Rhythm, timing, and phrasing" not unike the one we've been discussing.

I know, I know, You're working on it. :rolleyes:

Factor
06-04-2005, 03:57 PM
Yes, important critisism from Russ there. Because of the nature of the progression, i.e. changing chords a lot, I got to hung up on nailing the change every time. Which lead to the neglect of other important factors such as rhythm and accents.

In my defence, it was a first take, and I hadn't got the progression in my ears - it was all intellectual.

I join with the choir in wanting a strickly "Focus on Rhythm timing and phrasing" ;)

UKRuss
06-04-2005, 04:13 PM
PHEW!

I spent the day stressing I had been overly harsh in my critiscism, I'm glad you see where i was coming from!

LOL, yes a strictly prhasing, rhythm, timing is ni the pipeline and I am working on it I promise, OK OK, I'll get it together!

Tucker came up with a very good idea for a test, and I think it'll be an exciting venture producing some interesting results!:D

Factor
06-04-2005, 04:15 PM
Oh! Don't worry, I've suffered worse stuff than recieving some good constructive critisicm over the internet ;)

By the way, did you check out the dorian lick tab?

UKRuss
06-04-2005, 04:34 PM
I did! Thanks for that, I shall be working it in to my mental Dorian lick library tonight!

Cheers!

Maarten
06-04-2005, 08:49 PM
And another strickly from me on bass. I really liked this backing track, lots of possibilities thanks to the unusual changes.
The balance is a bit off on my take sometimes (don't want to look all night for a solution at the moment) and I didn't see the ending coming because I was playing with my back to the screen to reduce the hum generated by the nasty boys monitor & pickup. Have fun listening!

UKRuss
06-04-2005, 09:11 PM
Nice again Maarten, I like the change from the E F to the G, nice change of mood and a recurring theme.

Apple-Joe
06-04-2005, 10:35 PM
Listening to your take. Almost upbeat intro. I don't know which notes you played.

I like the playing, it's so stable and consistent. Maybe that's because you play bass and focus on the rhythm.

You also tend to add short 'sounds' here and there which spice up the whole thing.

Maarten
06-04-2005, 11:25 PM
Glad you like it. I try to focus on really just playing what I 'hear', playing what I would sing. Because of the direct recording and computer nastyness that comes with it (somehow there is some kind of compression which kills the attack of the notes and then suddenly it starts getting louder making some notes sound out of time when they aren't, and the bass just sounds weird sometimes) it's not how my playing would sound in real life, my phrasing can sound overly rough on these recordings. In real life it sounds a lot better luckily.

tucker97325
06-05-2005, 12:35 AM
The challenge is to strictly create a melody over the progression coming up with alternative, and hopefully exotic, scale choices and explanations for why what you do works.
I have to admit, I had a few problems with this task.

First, since I couldn't record anything for a while, so I had time to listen to everyone else's take on it. Hmm, hope I didn't include anything of anyone elses. I don't want to be labeled a thief. (If there is something, it was unintentional.)

The second problem was that word "melody". It's one thing to play some sort of improvisation over the top of a track, I think it's quite another to come up with "a melody". I'm not quite sure I succeeded in accomplishing this portion of the endeavor, but that was my focus.

Last problem is, even though I've finally been able to "rig" my system to record, it came out really bassy. I need to look into that.

Let me know what you think, I can take it (I hope).

Oh, as far as scales and such, I'm not really sure, E-Phrigian on most of it I guess, the rest is just what I thought sounded ok to me.

EDIT: PS: I know there are some real rough spots, and even a couple of blaring wrong notes, but after hearing the poor quality of the recording, I couldn't bring myself to do it again.

UKRuss
06-05-2005, 06:31 AM
Very nice "Friar" (Tuck geddit?)

I particularly liked the way you worked the changes on the descending G section, very nice.

I would say that was a melody, and it repeated which re-inforces the concept.

i think this is the first time we've heard you, and I must say I'm impressed!:D

tucker97325
06-05-2005, 02:51 PM
I particularly liked the way you worked the changes on the descending G section, very nice.

I would say that was a melody, and it repeated which re-inforces the concept.

i think this is the first time we've heard you, and I must say I'm impressed!:DThanks for the encouragement Russ. I liked that part too, and I tried to do it a little different the second time through, not so much for the aesthetic of the song, but too try to get the same idea across in a different way. On the E-F part, I found myself just wanting improvise, it was hard to pin any thought down and stick to it as a melody. (After all our discussions about shredding, I think this piece was a good example of where I would have liked to include a little, given the ability.)

Anyway, yes this was my first, and now that have I listened to it again, may be my last. :( Funny, the whole thing sounded so much better in my head.

Los Boleros
06-05-2005, 02:51 PM
I liked it. It's refreshing to hear the warmth of the Nylon strings as well. Nice job.

tucker97325
06-05-2005, 03:52 PM
Thanks Los Boleros, glad you liked it. I am a little partial to nylon strings, especially for a tune like this one, but that was my steel string acoustic emulating a nylon string guitar. I guess it worked. :p I actually tried to record it with my nylon, but the D string is unwinding (after 7 days) at the 9th fret(among others) so that B in the first phrase sounded more like it was being played on a sitar. Kind of cool really, but...

UKRuss
06-05-2005, 06:18 PM
Anyway, yes this was my first, and now that have I listened to it again, may be my last. :( Funny, the whole thing sounded so much better in my head.

What?!? No way, you don't get away that easily. It was really very good and I'll be disappointed if I don't hear some more!

ashc
09-01-2005, 10:06 PM
Been meaning to have a go at this for a while. I had some idea but I kept screwing it up (you can hear some hestitation in the phrasing creeping in after N takes). Heres where I was at when I gave up - great howler at 1:09. It had to be this one before I was "strictly doghouse".

Apple-Joe
09-01-2005, 11:04 PM
asc, I'm listening to it right now. Interesting sound. I think the playing is creative. Nice legato style going on hitting the right notes. Then some more creative phrasing.

Overall, enjoyable.

ashc
09-02-2005, 07:59 AM
Thanks A-J! I was hoping for a cleaner, more confident, take but it might have taken for ever :D

Are you going to have a go at this one?

UKRuss
09-02-2005, 08:13 AM
I like that Ash, kind of arabian feel to the verse part and some upbeat arp style approach to the descending chorus.

Very much back to your staccato style of note playing, almost as if you lift your finger off the note as soon as is humanly possible after it has sounded. I like the effect but I think it could be mixed up with some more sustained passages too.

Overall, though a developed theme, melody and thats what this strickly was all about.

mattblack850
09-02-2005, 08:35 AM
Nice one Ash!!!Very 'theme-atic' if ya get what I mean!!!

ashc
09-02-2005, 08:51 AM
Thanks Russ, hmm, yes that stacato thing, thats not deliberate in the verse, but it is deliberate(ish) in the chorus as I slide down purposefully after each phrase. It's interesting to listen back because when I am holding the notes I'm adding vibrato but it's so weedy you can't really hear it. I'm not looking for the mega-wide HM vibrato but I certainly have work to do.

The chorus part is not really arps it's pent stuff but I follow the chords with the appropriate pent. Even doing that it has that "following the chords" sound to it and sounds like you are using arps (thats a trick to remember). The second half of the verse melody is based around an E7sus4 arp - but I only realised that afterwards.

ashc
09-02-2005, 08:52 AM
Thanks also Neil!

UKRuss
09-02-2005, 09:50 AM
I shall remember that trick!

I've been talking to Rudy a bit more about how he approaches chord tone type playing and it is like going outside to look in through a window at a painting you know very well. It's the same painting but you're looking at it from a completely different angle.

It's led me very much more onto following chords and arpeggios rather than scalar based runs and patterns.

very nice effect that pents to follow the chord, sounds great.

ashc
09-02-2005, 10:04 AM
The Strictly Latin verse part was the first thing I've done on guitar where I used the arps to create a melody following the progression and that coincidentally is probably my favourite effort so far. That was just over a year after starting at bashing away with arps in my practice. You're a long away ahead of me on guitar so you should get into it much quicker.

EDIT: Actually i'll be out on limb here but this reminds me of a strictly idea I had that was like a question without an answer, this could be the answer... I'll try and get to work on it.

I'm still going to spend a lot of time doing pent based soloing - it's far too much fun and if it's good enough for Jimi and Jimmy - it's good enough for me :D

Apple-Joe
09-02-2005, 04:31 PM
Thanks A-J! I was hoping for a cleaner, more confident, take but it might have taken for ever :D

Are you going to have a go at this one?

I think I once tried, but didn't succeed. I have to study the theory behind it and give it some more time. It's definately an interesting backing.

The next attempt I think will be the Strictly Minor, then I'll see where I'm heading.

tucker97325
09-03-2005, 03:34 PM
Okay, this is a little off topic, but does have to do with melody, sort of.

Russ and I had a discussion regarding "what you play" versus "how you play it" when I first came to IBM. (Remember Russ?) One of my arguments was that someone could make "Chopsticks" sound awsome, if they tweaked it a bit. Well, I think this entire song was based upon "Chopsticks". I don't know why I didn't think of this one then.:confused: Anyway, I'm posting here only because you can't have attachments on PM's, and I wanted to include this little snipit.

Please pardon this interuption.

Apple-Joe
09-03-2005, 03:57 PM
Okay, this is a little off topic, but does have to do with melody, sort of.

Russ and I had a discussion regarding "what you play" versus "how you play it" when I first came to IBM. (Remember Russ?) One of my arguments was that someone could make "Chopsticks" sound awsome, if they tweaked it a bit. Well, I think this entire song was based upon "Chopsticks". I don't know why I didn't think of this one then.:confused: Anyway, I'm posting here only because you can't have attachments on PM's, and I wanted to include this little snipit.

Please pardon this interuption.

I'd rather listen to someone who decides to use a couple of strange notes, but knows very well what he's doing rhythmically, than someone who plays the "right" set of notes, but doesn't focus except for the note choice.

I look forward to listening to your track.

UKRuss
09-03-2005, 07:10 PM
Okay, this is a little off topic, but does have to do with melody, sort of.

Russ and I had a discussion regarding "what you play" versus "how you play it" when I first came to IBM. (Remember Russ?) One of my arguments was that someone could make "Chopsticks" sound awsome, if they tweaked it a bit. Well, I think this entire song was based upon "Chopsticks". I don't know why I didn't think of this one then.:confused: Anyway, I'm posting here only because you can't have attachments on PM's, and I wanted to include this little snipit.

Please pardon this interuption.

This is an awesome tune btw, I'm gonna have dig it out now and play it LOUD!:D

eastwood
07-04-2006, 11:28 PM
My 1st ever home recording attempt

Tried to keep it melodic.....so let me know what you guys think !

Be gentle with me !

Daz

p.s Theres half of it missing because I used a free converter :(

tucker97325
07-04-2006, 11:50 PM
It's probably just me, but I don't hear how this could mesh with the backtrack. :(

eastwood
07-05-2006, 07:56 AM
Tuck,

Which backing track ? The one I wrote or the original Strictly one ?

I just recorded my own backing track, found a melody and posted it on here..........mmmmm....perhaps I have posted in the wrong section :confused:

Daz

UKRuss
07-05-2006, 08:32 AM
Coolio, I'll check it out later Daz, can't listen to it at work.

I think what The Friar means is that the idea is to improvise over the backing track originally provided in the post, but that's no hard and fast rule.

Would be cool if you could post your backing track too without your improv so we can all have a go over that one too.

eastwood
07-05-2006, 08:38 AM
Yello Russ !

Ok, I will do that tonight a create my first strictly

I just wanted to post my 1st attempt at home recording to get some feedback of me maties. I posted one in the neoclassical one too....same story.....an orginal different backing track :eek:

Daz

UKRuss
07-05-2006, 09:07 AM
Nice one bruvva!

tucker97325
07-05-2006, 03:07 PM
Tuck,

Which backing track ? The one I wrote or the original Strictly one ?

I just recorded my own backing track, found a melody and posted it on here..........mmmmm....perhaps I have posted in the wrong section :confused:

DazYeah, Russ is right, I expected you to use the backing track provided for this thread. When you said "Half of it was missing..." I assumed you meant it was that backing track. I'm old, and I get confused very easily.:confused:

Listening to your post, without trying to fit it to Russ' track, I LIKE IT!! It would also be cool to hear what you do with the track Russ provided.

eastwood
07-05-2006, 03:11 PM
Tuck,

Well I have learnt to export mp3s and such..... so tonight i will importing some strictly backing tracks and trying it that way.

Take Care,

Daz