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whopwooper
04-01-2005, 11:09 AM
Has anyone ever heard of this theory....I love low down dirty music which is not to squeeaky clean but also like musos who genuinley try to better their technical ability.......It's so cool to see all your scales in the same mode but up perfectly together once you know them off by heart...However Try steping out side the od notes which at first appear wrong but if you play them in a certain way Sound Gritty and powerfull.....Can you know to much.?? I love to go back to the heart felt mentality of a begginer passionatley doing that cool bit you just Sussed out?????......So GUys THE MORE YOU KNOW THE LESS YOU KNOW?????True or false?......P.S. think how many Indie gut wrenching Dirt guitarists did it without any Theory....or were they just Pretending not to know.......Dave Groahl mentioned this in an underground radio interview......Pahhh Waht a waffler I am

Factor
04-01-2005, 11:18 AM
I believe more in the phrase:

"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"

This holds very true for music theory. For me when I started out with scales and keys, I was afraid to play a "wrong" note. Now I can justify some of those in a theoretical way. With regards to music though, the ear is really the guide in the end. This is why ear training is essential to all musicians.

I've been thinking about that last bit too. Sometimes, the music just seems to well thought out not to be influenced by theory.

whopwooper
04-01-2005, 02:25 PM
Hey mate thanks for replying......I hope you have not been burning down any churches latley....Just jokeing...I've read a book recently called 'LORDS OF CHAOS``
about the metal scene in Norway and how quite a few guys went to prison for murdering people and burning down churches...as I see your from Norway??
Sorry I could not help to ask as I was quite shocked about this book. In the end everyone blamed it all on VENOM...the so call founders of black metal....Personaly I'm glad to here you like JAZZ...I love jazz too but am very open minded to different forms of music which to some folks is also a dangerous line......To much of one influence is even more Dangerous.........
But hopefully other folks can comment on this To much Theory stuff???
Einstein was also a Rebell but sussed it out how he wanted to...???

gersdal
04-01-2005, 02:51 PM
Another comment from Norway,
Have you read the R Pirsig book "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance"? Have some interesting views on appreciation of art with or without prior knowledge. Point is that you experience a great feeling when listening to something new and unexpected in music. If you never heard any music, you'll probably get a great experience by listening to Mary's little lamb. Now, we find that boring I guess. So when you have heard a lot of music, most of us will get bored by very simple things. So we go for something more difficult and unexpected in some other way. I guess thats why you have musicians musicians. Most people dont listen to that stuff. People very interested in music however find it challanging and exiting.
I think that "the more you know, the more you understand that you don't know". It's like your knowledge is a cicle, and what you don't know is the outside of the circle. You are aware of what you don't know by the outer limits of the cicle. When your know something more, the circle increases, but so does the outher limit of the circle.
In my opinion knowledge is great. It may change your playing, and turn you into jazz :-) or Dixie Dregs type of music, but that is not bad. However, playing is the real thing - groove, phrasing, improv etc is what you should spend most time developing.
G (no, I'm not burning churches)

whopwooper
04-01-2005, 03:06 PM
wise comments......Don't woory I'm not all relegious actualy Not at all...If music were a relegion then maybee.....but thank F--c It's not...some how though it is quite a brutal as well as feather soft task to try to improve yourself...or otherwise known as Talent....But those comments about the Circle, are quite intriuging....I did once read Zen and the Art of Motror cycle M--
but was so long ago I can hardly remember the jist of it???....The ending was really cool sitting in his chair with the cigaret burning his finger after a mega kind of reality trip ..which is what life is...in reality...There is no one there to say whats right or wrong...we really are alone when it comes to the Better judgment of Taste...which we still have to decide what we know and how to/or not to use it.????..Common sense is usually the best way but I also love Niave Stupid unexpected decissions also...they do somtimes pay off to all the cynics.

UKRuss
04-01-2005, 03:44 PM
I'm still paying off my clinic...

Oh you said cynic. Sorry.

I have a saying by which I live my life before 11.30am every day.

"We are all just strings vibrating over the humbucker of life, picked by the random plectrum held by the hand of fate"

The question we have to answer is: What's the frequency?

=Bob=
04-01-2005, 04:16 PM
I find that the more I know, the more I realize how much I don't know, so then I know how much more I want to know, but will need to know even more to know how much more I need to know...
=Bob=

forgottenking2
04-01-2005, 04:39 PM
Wow... overwhelming wisdom here :) I specially loved the "we're all strings..." quote, would you mind if I put that up in my classroom? It's just hilarious :D man, very true too.

As far as knowledge I believe is good to either know or not to know, never to "almost know". For those who chose to know their pursue is lifelong.

Regards,

Slaindude
04-01-2005, 05:00 PM
There is more you need to know than you know you need.

=Bob=
04-01-2005, 05:27 PM
I knew that..
=Bob=

UKRuss
04-01-2005, 06:07 PM
Well, I usually charge my "disciples" at the "UKRuss Centre for Stuff That Feels You Better" healthy sums for quotes such as those... but for you Jorge my man,

It's yours!

And long may it.. .err... allow your students to vibrate with every increasing frequency! :D

(That's a good thing btw)

Mateo150
04-01-2005, 06:28 PM
"We are all just strings vibrating over the humbucker of life, picked by the random plectrum held by the hand of fate"

The question we have to answer is: What's the frequency?
OH, I SAY BALLOP? :D

Factor
04-01-2005, 07:20 PM
I hope you have not been burning down any churches latley....Just jokeing...I've read a book recently called 'LORDS OF CHAOS``
about the metal scene in Norway and how quite a few guys went to prison for murdering people and burning down churches...as I see your from Norway??
Sorry I could not help to ask as I was quite shocked about this book. In the end everyone blamed it all on VENOM...the so call founders of black metal....Personaly I'm glad to here you like JAZZ...I love jazz too but am very open minded to different forms of music which to some folks is also a dangerous line......To much of one influence is even more Dangerous.........


Well, I'm not only into jazz. I play bass in a mean death metal quartet and I went to this metal festival during easter. But yeah, those church burners were a couple o' lunatics. If you actually know the black metal milleu, you'd figure out that there's much more irony and humour up and about that what you'd think. Just guys who tried to be seriously evil. :o :rolleyes:

mjo
04-01-2005, 08:04 PM
......UKRuss Centre for Stuff That FEELS You Better.....

:eek: That's illegal here in the 'states ! Damn shame too, I hear there's good money in it.....
....Running a buisness like that, you'll be "paying off your clinic" constantly - :D :D

On a philosophical note:
- One of my favorite sayings = "Where wisdom is not a blessing, knowledge is a curse"
That's a bit extreme for musical applications but, I sometimes wish I could turn off the flow of knowledge until I was ready to understand and apply it.

....gee, that makes me sound rather wise and intuitive........APRIL FOOLS ! :D

UKRuss
04-01-2005, 08:29 PM
OH, I SAY BALLOP? :D
Touche Mateo, touche.:D

LOL mjo. You're not wrong my man, you're not wrong.

Great thread btw Whopwooper..guess we're all feeling a bit frivolous today.

Spring is in the air! Unless you're from down under in which case... have a nice Winter!!

whopwooper
04-01-2005, 08:34 PM
wow I'm surprized how much feed back I have from this forum...Thanks guys for getting stuck in to such a triky theme............The clever folks could come along and say you know nothing ...But who are they to say???...I love some of thease ideas posted today for a them I talked about to thease geezers in a band in our local which really put the cat amongst the pidgeons as in this morning when I posted it.........I Think I was refering to the little swat type of fela who genuinley does try ....perhaps a little to hard??? Knows all the chords
Knows all the Scales....has become a 5 alive INput- Input-input monster.......Sadly in reality ....lets say the fella studied all his life.........What the F _ _ _is all that theory without discresion a pinch of passion and lets face it ...sheer enjoyment of the whole thing_MAKING MUSIC???.....Input is a great thing but use it with feeling

GrantMe
04-02-2005, 05:19 AM
Dizzy once said something along the lines of, "in all the years I have been playing music the only thing I have learned is what notes not to play" I also think that theory can explain music but doesnt have anything to do with making music....Tons of the greats played by talking with there guitar what they felt and then some guy explained in words why it sounded good....I could give some cheesy analogy but.....the simpsons are on now.

oRg
04-02-2005, 08:39 AM
Here's some good "sayings":

"The Law was made for Man, not Man for the Law" (only applying this to music and theory)
"If it doesn't sound good to you, then trash it"

I imagine these things were said by millions of people so I take no credit for these quotes...lol.