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Mip
12-01-2002, 08:40 AM
Hey Gang,

My first post.

A long time ago, I learned a number of major and minor scale patterns all over the neck.

I just discovered a book by Segovia on scale patterns for classical guitar. The shifts in these scales are different than the ones I know. Frequently there is a move from 3rd finger to 1st finger, 2 frets up the neck.

I'm up for learning something new if it'll help me develop fluency up and down the neck, but am not sure these scales are the ones to use (given that the classical guitar body meets the neck at the 12th fret, and my tele meets it much higher, and is cut away).

Any ideas or advice?

Thanks,

M

szulc
12-01-2002, 01:15 PM
Maybe you should tab these out and post them so we know what you are talking about.

Mip
12-03-2002, 04:06 AM
Sorry about that. I hate to be a dope, but is there a standard way to write tab on the computer, or using html?

For now, here's what I was talking about.

Ascending A minor melodic scale.

-------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------9-10--------
-------------------------------9-11------------
----------------------9-10-12-----------------
-------5-7-9-11-12---------------------------
5-7-8------------------------------------------

continuing up.....

-------10-12-14-16-17----------------------
12-13-----------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The fingerings:

6th - 134
5th - 13134
4th - 124
3rd - 13
2nd -11
1st - 13134

In both the A and high E strings, the jump from the 3rd finger to the first finger (a shift of 2 frets) seems big.

Am I just not used to it, or are y'all doing it another way?

Thanks in advance,

M

szulc
12-04-2002, 03:21 AM
Aren't you missing somthing on the B string?

Mip
12-04-2002, 04:10 AM
The tab is correct. I wasn't sure how the page would render on a narrow screen. I'll risk it:

---------------------------------------10-12-14-16-17----------
-----------------------------9-10-12-13--------------------------
-------------------------9-11--------------------------------------
-----------------9-10-12------------------------------------------
-----5-7-9-11-12-------------------------------------------------
5-7-8---------------------------------------------------------------

You're right about the fingerings. I neglected to include the rest of the line on the B string. Here it is:

6th - 134
5th - 13134
4th - 124
3rd - 13
2nd -1134
1st - 13134

Sorry 'bout that.

M

szulc
12-04-2002, 04:16 AM
You need powertab!

EricV
12-04-2002, 12:24 PM
Yeah, Powertab sure would be a good idea...

Mip, you can download it for free here:

http://powertab.guitarnetwork.org

The only problem, when using it to tab out scales like those in this thread is that there is no option to indicate left hand-fingerings yet...
When I did the TABs for the 8 finger tapping-examples, I made jpegs of the sections and included the l.h.-indicators manually with Paint Shop Pro.
I guess this problem will be solved once PT 2.0 is released... I think a lot of people asked about this at the Powertab-forum...

Warm regards
Eric

EricV
12-04-2002, 12:33 PM
This is how the scale above would look like, done with Powertab, fingerings added with Paint Shop Pro ( I did it rather quickly, thatīs why the numbers donīt line up... )
Warm regards
Eric

Mip
12-04-2002, 04:05 PM
Thanks for all the tab tips. I'll look into powertab.

Now - how about the meat of my post?

What do you guys think about the shifting that takes place in this scale?

Are there other ways to play this scale that include shifting in other places (must be)? What are the advantages to those fingerings?

M

szulc
12-04-2002, 10:27 PM
I do not use this method. I don't like it and don't think it is beneficial. I suggest learning 3 Note Per String Scales then 2 Note per string then Octave types (3/4, 4/3) then 4 Notes per string. A lot of people advocate using positions shift with 1-1 or 4-4 where you shift on the first finger or last finger, this is useful and Greg Howe really likes the 1-1 thing. I generally don't play more than 4 notes per string and I use a different finger for each note so I don't do much 1-1 or 4-4 except when doing slippery things like the 'Jack off' lick (Think George Lynch's horizontal vibratto) or dimished arpeggios movig around in minor 3rds in which case there is a lot of 1-1 and 4-4. I think you will get more more mileage out of the 3nps, 4nps 3/4 ,4/3 nps (Octave type) and 2 nps scales. In addation , they are much easier to learn and remember.

badgas
12-06-2002, 01:54 AM
I learned my scales on the three note per string method.
I have found it much easier than some I've seen used.
Here are the Ionian and Dorian from G as an example without the finger positions. I think the postioning used is a matter of personal preference. I could think wrong though.
How does this differ from your method, szulc? Just curious, if you don't mind.

szulc
12-06-2002, 02:10 AM
I believe you should exhaust all possibilities of fingerings.
You have four fingers available to finger with.
Three note per string scales are just one of a plethora of exhaustive possibilities. I have written an article on 2 note per string scales which is published on this site. I also advocate learning CAGED system scales these are formed by first learning the open position chord forms C A G E D then for instance in the key of C playing them C ( Open position) then 3rd Position Open A Form(but it is really C ) then 5th Position Open G Form (once again C) then 8th Position Open E form (C Again) then Open Position D Form in 10th Position (C). From each of these positions you learn a C major Scale form usually they have three notes per string on all but one string (sometimes two when it is both E strings) usually the B or G string. Then I like to teach the concept of octave type scales, where you have 3 notes on one string and 4 on the other, then just move this shape up in octaves. ( You can start with either 4 or three on the 6th string.) Because diatonic modes and major/minor scales have seven unique notes per octave they repeat after seven notes thus the 3/4 or 4/3 thing. Then I also advocate learning 4 note per string scales these are tough to execute but havtheir uses especially high up on the neck where the frets are closer together, they also allow you to do your picking with out changing direction when you start on each string. I actually have published a book on this.

badgas
12-06-2002, 02:31 AM
Ah, yes. I do use the four note per string high up the neck.

I've seen reference to you book, szulc, in a few other threads on this site.

I'm picky about what I read and who it's by. Like I mentioned someplace, there are a lot of methods and the author has a lot to do with how the point is taken.
In my experiences while reading your posts, I'm very much taken in by your advice and comments.

So, this makes me that much more interested in your book.
Would I find it at Barnes and Nobles?
I don't use credit cards so online shopping isn't one of my options.
I would like to buy a copy though.

szulc
12-06-2002, 02:45 AM
I spent a lot of time trying to get Alfreds to publish this, but I not ended up letting them do it. I am presently self publishing this.
Send me a private message and we will discuss this further. Since I don't want to be offending the integrity of the this site with advertisments.

badgas
12-06-2002, 02:46 AM
I understand.