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metaljustice83
10-15-2002, 02:54 AM
I have some pretty decent chops I think, and i know theory pretty well out side of the guitar from classes from school, but I need to know where I should go with my theory or musical knowledge first as far as guitar goes. I know how to play the w-w-h-w-w-w-h on single strings and some basic chords and i guess i could play minor w-h-w-w-h-w-w if I practiced enough. Basically I want to know what do i need to know to be a well rounded player and where to find the information (links preferably) or books and so on. I do have some basic music reading skills on guitar. I know how to construct some chords and how to write out melodic minor scales and harmonic minor and major and minor on paper. The reason I posted on this board is because all of the people on this board are very knowledgeable and care about the people on the other end of the computer. Thank you very much in advance for all the replies. And I know that this post may seem like a bunch of non-sense :confused: Oh and by the way this is my first post I think thanks again

szulc
10-15-2002, 03:05 AM
I know how to play the w-w-h-w-w-w-h on single strings Are you trying to say that you only no scale one one string at a time? If so, use you knowlege of theory and the fingerboard to learn several different methods of scale fingerings.
Start with CAGED (Major, Harmonic, Melodic, also pentatonic and blues) scales then three note per string, then octave types and four notes per string. write out patterns for close voice triads on each group of three strings, then map out open voice triads. Get a book on snare drum rudiments and practice these with your hands or sticks, then try to do the patterns with your pick. Learn about common chord progressions. You can find most of what you want here at this site. Try the search engine or look at the articles.

Bongo Boy
10-18-2002, 05:24 AM
Welcome to iBreathe. I've endured my love-hate relationship with the guitar now since May of this year. Most of the information that I've felt I needed I got from this site--both materials posted here and from participation in the forums.

On the 'theory' side of things, there are quite a number of articles published here that treat scales and chords, etc. There are dozens of papers here on technique as well.

Although I won't be offering any advice (bless us all), maybe you could tell us a bit more about what you'd like to do, what you like to play, how you spend your practice time, what happens during a practice session that may frustrate you, etc. This might help others here who are qualified to offer some ideas.

How long have you been playing and how often, on average, have you played during that period?

Once again, welcome to iBreatheMusic. Oh, by the way, have you been quite happy with the JM120?

metaljustice83
10-18-2002, 04:06 PM
well I love my johnson amp there is nothing it can't do. I just wish it had an option for an extension cabinet :( anywayz well some people may frown upon this but I am a fan of metallica (kirks the man) I also like joe satriani megadeth Ozzy black label society SRV KWS abit of weezer jimmy eat world hmmmm thats enough for now. Well i've been playing for around3-4 years i think, i always forget. I just wanna beable to make up my own music, but well, I don't want to just play power chords and i don't like jumbling my fingers all over the fretboard hunting for somthing that sounds good. I am never happy with what i make up. I want to be able to lay and improv down and be proud of it. I think that answers most of your questions if not i'll try and get back on it. this board is great btw. I am having a bit of trouble getting to the previous lessons though. imparticular the CAGED thing, i need to look into that. Thanks for all your help.

Sjonesmusic
10-20-2002, 02:45 PM
Hey there...

What helped me, may help you...

I started by just learning gutar parts and solos from my favorite artists...

I started playing drums first, and played for 5 years before switching to guitar, so I had a lot of music in my head already...I guess that might have helped...

But, aside from just picking up the guitar, beyond that, I got books of modes, scales, chords, theory...and just drilled the stuff...

Meanwhile, I was listening to as much music as possible....and as much different kinds of music as possible...

So, as time passed, I could identify what I was hearing and apply it to the guitar...eventually, the broad listening habits I had, empowered me to apply theoretical knowledge from different instruments to my playing, composing, arranging...

While I began by learning solos from other players, I eventually got to a point where I didn't have to actually learn the solos, but by intensive listening, I could just go to my guitar and play what I was hearing, with little practice...this is unusual, so I don't recommend it...I would recommend that you transcribe, learn, play solos from other players, but do so with the intention of branching away from the language of their solos and make an individual language out of them...

Listen to EVERYTHING...

This means not just Yngwie and Clapton...(or any typical iconic player)

This means Turkish village music; New Viennese Composers of the early 20th Century: Schoenberg, Alban Berg, Webern; Miles Davis; Tibet Chant; American Folk songs; Free Jazz; Punk; Pop; Bluegrass; French Impressionist Composers Debussy and Ravel; Bach; Shred; ........you get the idea....if you haven't heard it, listen to it...

Absorb all of this and it will find a way out of you, through your own music...

Make sure you learn as much theory as you can...buy books, take a class, browse the web, there are many resources...

Learn your chordal theory, but don't just rely on guitar-based books....buy chordal and harmony books written for piano players...

Learn your linear theory or solo theory....but buy books written for sax players, bass players, trombone players....

Learn how to read both treble clef and bass clef...and learn to write in the varying keys of different instruments...

Play with C.D.s, play with other players....play in totally different bands with styles that are completely opposite of what you would normally play in...if you are a punk rocker, take a blues gig for several months...if you are a country player, take a metal gig...

I played in a punk/alternative band for half a year, and countless varying rock bands, blues bands, jazz gigs, funk, disco, country...

Become as well-rounded as possible...

Play along with music you wouldn't expect to play along with, such as James Brown, Parliment Funk, Ohio Players...then play along with those Turkish Village C.D.s....improvise over Stravinsky, Prokofiev, and John Cage...you'd be surprised where your mind will take you...

Change your practice time....if you normally play in the evening from 7-9 pm, then switch for a week to 4 am to 7 am; or 1 am to 3 am...your mind may access different parts of creative brain waves, and arrive at different results at different times...

I hope this has helped,

Scott

metaljustice83
10-20-2002, 05:17 PM
thank you very much for all of you help everyone. One more question that may help narrow down my search a bit more is what order did you learn things for theory and guitar playing scales and chords and modes and such. Those in order and with in those categories. if this isn't clear im sorry everything works out in my head and sometimes that isn't clear to others. Again thanks for your help.


N.P=Ozzy Osbourne Live at budokan

Danster
10-20-2002, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by metaljustice83
well some people may frown upon this but I am a fan of metallica (kirks the man) I also like joe satriani megadeth Ozzy black label society SRV KWS abit of weezer jimmy eat world hmmmm thats enough for now.Dude, you like Metallica? :mad: Just kidding, the black album is one of my all-time favorite albums. I bought a tab book for the black album shortly after I got my guitar. It didn't take me long to figure out that most of the stuff that Kirk plays is not easy (duh!). I can play the intro to "Nothing Else Matters" (great song by the way), and that's about it as far as Metallica is concerned. SRV is also one of my favs. I love his version of Buddy Guy's "Mary Had a Little Lamb", which I can play a little of. And since you mention a couple of blues guys, do you know of Walter Trout? He is an awesome blues guitarist. His rendition of Hendrix's "Red House" is incredible.

Well i've been playing for around3-4 years i think, i always forget. I just wanna beable to make up my own music, but well, I don't want to just play power chords and i don't like jumbling my fingers all over the fretboard hunting for somthing that sounds good. I am never happy with what i make up. I want to be able to lay and improv down and be proud of it.I do hear ya. I've been playing a little over a year. Mostly I've just been getting song books and tab, or doing a little transcription of songs/artists I like. But I'm tired of that now. The fretboard and much of music theory are mostly mysterious to me, and I'm now ready to really start trying to learn the guitar, as opposed to just copping licks. I took Guni's advice (and some others) and yesterday I picked up William Leavitt's Modern Method for Guitar I-III (see Reviews section of this website). I expect it'll take me a long while to get through it (>400 pages!), but that's cool--if I could learn it in a month, I expect it wouldn't be worth much.


I am having a bit of trouble getting to the previous lessons though. imparticular the CAGED thing, i need to look into that. Thanks for all your help. If you're interested in the CAGED thingy for chords and scales, maybe you'd be interested in the "Fretboard Logic" series of books. I don't have the series, but I was considering those as an alternative to the Leavitt book. A look at the Table of Contents shows that there is a lot of CAGED material in that series. You can check out reviews of that series at amazon.com. Most people seem to really like it. Good luck to ya!

metaljustice83
10-21-2002, 02:43 AM
thanks for your reply. Hey if you like Kirk you should look in to Joe satriani (he gave lessons to kirk) definatly not the same style of playing but non the less awesome.....and thats and understatement. If kirk hadn't started the flame of guitar for me Joe would have taken over. See ya later


N.P=Megadeth Cryptic writings

EricV
10-21-2002, 09:55 AM
Or how about Alex Skolnick ?
He also used to take lessons from Satch ( so did Vai and Larry LaLonde plus the guy from T-Ride ), he also played in a metalband ( Testament, left the band after "The Ritual" ), and has a really cool style... lots of chops and great ideas. I always liked the way he played very creative, often un-metal-like leads in the context of heavy music.
These days, heīs playing jazz-stuff. He was the guitarist of Attention Deficit ( with Mike Manring and Tim Alexander ) and earlier this year he released "Goodbye To Romance", a collection of 80īs songs ( by the Scorpions, Ozzy, Kiss.. ) played with a jazz-style-trio.
Eric

szulc
10-21-2002, 11:59 AM
I thoought it was called 'Standards for a new generation'?

EricV
10-21-2002, 02:51 PM
Thatīs the subtitle... so weīre both right...

Eric

EricV
10-22-2002, 10:11 PM
Hi there...

OK, I figured itīd make sense if Iīd split this thread and move the whole part abotu Skolnick and changing styles to the "Miscellaneous Chat " forum...
I renamed it to Changing styles ( Music Metaphysics Pt.2 ), hereīs a link... CLICK (http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=477)
Eric

MetallicTheatre
10-28-2002, 07:14 AM
Hey dudes,
Im a new user on ibreathe, and I wanted to say its f***king awesome, it has helped me so much! I've only been playing a year and a half, but i think im fairly decent, i can tap pretty damn well, same with picking and chord playing, but the only scales i know are pentatonic and my music reading is only basic but ive found plenty of stuff on this site to help me out with that, and Eric's little review on the "Beat It" Van halen Solo has helped out too, so thanx!!

Aaron

-----------------------------------------------------------

My Gear

HAMER "Slammer" (Strat Copy)
Ashton 100watt Amplifier
ZOOM GXII Guitar fx Pedal
Ibanez Distortion Pedal

SteveFerguson
10-28-2002, 09:39 AM
Hi guys, I also am new to this site, this is my first post (I saw a review of your site in GuitarOne magazine and thought I'd take a look... Great site by the way) but anyways, I was wondering if anyone had some advice... I have been playing about 2 to 2 and a half years and have pretty much mastered rhythm playing... But i can't seem to play lead very well. In fact that's not completely accurate. I can play solos etc that are slow(ish) like the first solo in GnR's "Knockin on Heavens door" and the lead bit at the end of "We Will Rock You" by Queen. But the minute I try to learn something like trhe solos for Sweet Child o' Mine or Enter Sandman I just can't seem to play fast enough... Are there any excercises or anything i can do to get my speed up?

On a more creative point, I have the same problem as the guy above, in that I can't seem to make stuff up verry well... I end up just noodling about trying to find something that sounds good. (this applies to both rhythm and lead) And when I try to inprovise a solo over a rhythm track i always end up using the same old "in the box" pentatonic scale and I can seem to get out of it....
Any advice on that?

Sorry for rambling guys, hope you don't mind too much... Thanks for listening. :)

EricV
10-28-2002, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by SteveFerguson
[B]slow(ish) like the first solo in GnR's "Knockin on Heavens door" and the lead bit at the end of "We Will Rock You" by Queen. But the minute I try to learn something like trhe solos for Sweet Child o' Mine or Enter Sandman I just can't seem to play fast enough... Are there any excercises or anything i can do to get my speed up?


Hi there, and welcome to ibreathe !
First of all, requiring exercises etc. for speeding up... I recommend to check out my articles regarding picking ( "Art Of Picking" etc. ) and legato ( "Good Morning Left Hand" ).
Those feature exercises and advice on practising and gaining speed, so they might help you to improve quite a bit.
Focus on those two basic techniques, and make up some practise regimen. Use a metronome.

Regarding learning solos like the one in "Enter Sandman". I used to play in several coverbands, and I had to learn many solos by other players. ( Yes, even the Sandman-solo )
I did that by either getting a TAB / notation of the solo or transcribing it myself. Next, I sat down with a metronome, isolated several difficult spots of that solo, and worked them up to speed.
I also sometimes created a slower backing track of the tune I was working on, to play the solo over it at a slower tempo.
The last step was to play the solo along to the record.

You can also use a MIDI- or Powertab-file of the song. Slow it down ( easy to set the tempo ), then work on little bits until you can link those together.
I think itīs cool that youīre trying to learn full songs and solos. But combine that with strict technical exercises. That way, you build up your technique, and can then use that technique to play those solos.

About getting out of that "rut" ( always getting back to the same scale patterns etc. )
I once had a student who had a pretty good technique already, but he wasnīt happy with his improvising, he felt like he was always ending up with the same old licks and patterns.
So, with him I did a completely different kind of guitar-lessons.
I prepared several jam tracks, and then I played over them, trying to come up with different stuff every time. Then I explained the approach I was thinking of afterwards, and I had him jam over the same backing track then, encouraging him to come up with something similar.

Itīs actually funny that you ask righ tnow, because I just finished an article about that very topic last week. It should be online soon ( TO GUNI: I guess we should publish that one first... )

Anyway, here are some ideas. Try them one at a time when jamming:

-I.e. restrict yourself to playing on one or two strings only
- Try to learn a different pattern ( ie. a three note per string pattern, or a regular major pattern ) and use that one exclusively. Try to explore it by coming up with different licks and melodies as you go along
- Try to emulate the sound and phrasing of other instruments. I.e. try to play bigger intervals ( i.e. by string-skipping ) like a saxophone or piano
- Use chromatic passing tones to add some different colors to your patterns
- Try to make up one simple melody and then repeat it, adding some variations every time, building on it...
More of that in the upcoming article
Hope this helps
Eric

EricV
10-28-2002, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by MetallicTheatre
[B]Hey dudes,
Im a new user on ibreathe, and I wanted to say its f***king awesome, it has helped me so much! I've only been playing a year and a half, but i think im fairly decent, i can tap pretty damn well, same with picking and chord playing, but the only scales i know are pentatonic and my music reading is only basic but ive found plenty of stuff on this site to help me out with that, and Eric's little review on the "Beat It" Van halen Solo has helped out too, so thanx!!


Hey Aaron, welcome at ibreathe.
Glad you like the articles and forum.
One thing about scales: Even the pentatonic scale has a lot of possibilities for everyone to explore. I once was like "Man, I gotta learn way more scales, all I know is that boring old pentatonic"

Well, as I stated in my "Stretch It" article, I started listening to guys like Richie Kotzen and Greg Howe, and got into the three note per string- pentatonic ( aka "stretch pentatonic" )
And I was surprised how many cool licks I soon came up with... stuff that I never even thought of before, much of it sounding like it wasnīt a pentatonic at all.
Also, I once fell into the "more scales trap". I learned bunches of different scales in a very short period of time. But I didnīt really explore those. Meaning that I only played them up or down or used them as an effect.
So here I was, knowing dozens of scales, but not being able to play anything interesting on them... I was just linking some odd scales together, without actully playing with some conviction.

So I limited myself to: pentatonic, stretch pentatonic, major & minor scales. And used those for a long time before I looked at other scales again...
I was surprised how many different things I was able to get out of those few, basic scales

Warm regards
Eric

MetallicTheatre
10-29-2002, 07:03 AM
Thanks man!!
Hey how long have u been playing for?

EricV
10-29-2002, 10:36 AM
Hi there...

Uhmmm... I have been playing for about 15 years now...
Warm regards
Eric

SteveFerguson
10-29-2002, 12:46 PM
Thanks for the quick reply, I look forward to seeing the article. :D

SteveFerguson
10-29-2002, 12:48 PM
Also I know what you mean about powertab, it is an amazing program and completely free! here is a link fo ryour readers....

http://powertab.guitarnetwork.org

EricV
10-30-2002, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by SteveFerguson
Thanks for the quick reply, I look forward to seeing the article. :D

Itīs online now :)

SteveFerguson
10-30-2002, 08:25 PM
cool. I will look it up.

SteveFerguson
10-30-2002, 08:36 PM
Great article Eric, I have only read it so far, but I will try the stuff in there and let you know how much it helps...

EricV
10-30-2002, 08:46 PM
Hey...

thanks, glad you like it.
Iīm interested in hearing how it works for ya...
Warm regards
Eric

SteveFerguson
10-30-2002, 09:19 PM
no problem. I'll let you know in a week or so if it has made a difference...