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Ads
10-05-2003, 01:55 PM
No matter who I play to even my own teacher! I get a bit nervous this can sometime affect my playing. Is it because Im new and not confident enough? Can anyone give any tips?

Cuno
10-05-2003, 02:07 PM
I'm also nervous about playing in front of others. Small groups more so, because it feels more personal.
I was in this band a few years back. We did a lot of gigs, and after a while i didn't think much of it. In fact, i enjoyed playing for an audience. But, like said, i still get nervous today depending on the situation. Mick Goodrick says in his book 'The Advancing Guitarist' something in the sense of -'You always have an audience' (i don't have the book with me so i can't quote the exact words), and for some reason that got to me. I always listen to myself playing, and that is the most critical audience i'll ever get. From that perspective there's nothing to be nervous about.

Wizbit81
10-05-2003, 02:07 PM
Everyone gets nervous playing in front of people, and your performance level does drop by about 50%. If you wanna play it right you've got to know a piece backwards, know every note totally, know everything you can possibly know about it, then there's no ****ups, (hopefully!!!!)

szulc
10-05-2003, 02:27 PM
You need to channel your feelings of fear and nervousness into better playing and taking more chances. Playing live is the ultimate rush, be in the moment. Remember music is all about the now.

Koala
10-05-2003, 03:00 PM
Szulc is right on the money, youve got to channel it. But if you want regular western tips id say:

1. Concentrate on your playing, not looking at people

2. If youre playing a gig either a) dont close your eyes or b) close them till youre all wrmed up and playing right then open them, then start making eye contact with people you see are enjoying themselves.

3. Try taking a couple deep breaths and keep your body relaxed before your start playing.

Hope this helps ya

Bizarro
10-05-2003, 03:33 PM
Ads, we all get nervous at some point. It's like giving a speech in class. You can be a wreck the first time, but the next time it's a little better, and you get used to it.

Realize that you're creating music. It's not a competition or anything. No one cares if you make a mistake or can't play at a bazillion notes per second. Just be honest with yourself and play to the best of your ability and you'll be fine!;)

Live music is a performance and doesn't have to be perfect. It's good to strive for perfection and continuous improvement, but everyone makes mistakes! It is what makes us human!

Welcome to iBreathe! ;) I think you'll like it here!

p.s. you should just post your question once, I noticed another "nervous" one out there. ;)

EricV
10-05-2003, 03:42 PM
One thing to overcome this is: play in front of people as much as possible.
When I was starting out, I always played for a friend of mine who used to visit me once a week. Every week, he´d come over and I´d play for him what I had learned throughout the week.
( I wonder how he put up with it, cuz at first, it must have sounded horrible )
And that helped, because for me, it soon was natural to have someone watch me when I played. Sure, it´s a different thing to play in front of several hundred people, but to play in front of a small crowd ( maybe only one person ) on a regular base is a good way to get used to it.
Warm regards
Eric

Ads
10-05-2003, 06:39 PM
Thanks for the help I try that advice everyone. I apologize for my posting too many threads.
Thanks.

EricV
10-05-2003, 06:51 PM
No need to apologize really ( look who´s talking *grin* )
Eric

metaljustice83
10-06-2003, 03:14 AM
well I don't play out.....yet. But, my advice is go with the zakk wylde school of thought. He bascially said, The music hasn't magically changed, its the same music you jam at practice, and the same music you jam at home, go out there get the job done, the people came to see a show.

SOunds good to me.

ash
10-06-2003, 03:23 AM
i get nervous even jamming with my band mates! i dont know why. i play sport and dont get nervous when i train, nor when im playing in front of big crowd. so i dont know why music brings this out in me. it might be the adrenalin pumping, but im sure that you will get to a stage during your performance where you just forget about it and just play (assuming you know the song well). several times ive been playing and i cant even remember any of the music i have just played, because i was in that zone where you almost forget what your doing. funny feeling...cool though

cozimnot
10-06-2003, 03:58 AM
but I get A LOT more nervous when I play for people who aren't musicians.

ash
10-06-2003, 06:26 AM
but I get A LOT more nervous when I play for people who aren't musicians.

funny about that. i guess maybe..... i get more nervous around muso's because they actually know (generally) whether what im playing is quality stuff or just average. whereas people who dont have much music knowledge probably think anything you do on a guitar is amazing regardless of skill level etc

Wizbit81
10-06-2003, 10:24 AM
whereas people who dont have much music knowledge probably think anything you do on a guitar is amazing regardless of skill level etc

Not in my country dude! I wish that was the case! Over here musicians appreciate what you can do and non-musicians won't give you the time of day. Local bands doing REM covers get great crowd reactions and guys telling the guitar player he's really great, but when a friend of mine went to watch one of the best jazz fusion bands in Scotland his friends who went with him left after half an hour saying it was **** and comparing their music to tuning up. Really good music here is marginalised in the extreme, you have to go to dingy little ****hole clubs to hear the really good players on the scene, while up the road the Pink Floyd covers band sells out the local venue! I find that I can play any old rubbish in front of non-musicians, ****, I can play in the wrong key and if I pull enough faces they'll like it. In front of musicians though, especially when some are better than me it's a different story, u can see if u goof even one note some people turn to each other and say something, it's not paranoia honest. Besides, when at gigs and the guitar players goofs up I turn to my mates and go ahaaaa, so people do do it. I think playing in front of musicians is lot more putting ur *** on the line coz it'll get round the grate vine pretty quick on how u did, so there's a lot riding on pulling it off I think. Basically I think all non-musicians should be given a crash course in music appreciation, then we can get rid of pop music F O R E V E R!!! :D

Ads
10-06-2003, 02:52 PM
some said dont look at the people concentrate on ur playing. where are u supposed to look at your guitar? it can look amaturish and isnt the best way to perform.

CURT #3000
10-06-2003, 04:12 PM
Wizbit81, Your comments prove that people can live in the same country, but live in totally different worlds. I find in venues I play in London & the South-East, people I meet generally have a very healthy attitude towards music.
>I’ve successfully avoided the nit picking muso brigade for many years now & I’m much happier for it. Their snide comments whenever you make a mistake have nothing to do with the actual music but reflect much more on their own pedantic little minds & insecurities. Like tends to attract like, so maybe you seem to end up in the same vicinity as these people because you are one of them yourself. I honestly don’t mean any disrespect … I was in the same boat myself years ago. I lost all sense of what music is all about in my teens. Because I’d learnt all my modes, arpeggios & had great technique, I developed a snobby attitude & looked down on most music that people generally seemed to enjoy. I thought it was all ‘below me.’ HOW WRONG I WAS!

Putting it VERY simply, music is all about communication. The reason REM & Floyd cover bands get big crowds (& compliments) is because they obviously communicate & make a lot of people very happy. The people you refer to are hearing music in it’s purest form because it’s not being contaminated & analysed through a brain full of scales & theories before they have a chance to feel it. In that respect, they have one up on you. Jazz-fusion probably did sound **** to your mates. I see (& enjoy) a lot of jazz-fusion myself, but I don’t for one second believe that I know MORE about ‘the true nature’ of music than somebody who thinks it sounds bad. Because of my life as a musician & tutor, my brain has been conditioned to enjoy jazz & avant-garde technical music, but years ago, I realised how dumb I was to regard myself ‘superior’ over something that is intangible. I love to analyse music & discuss theory in depth myself, but the only way I ‘truly’ feel & enjoy a performance is when I let it all go. As Bruce Lee once said, “TO SEE A THING UNCOLOURED BY ONE’S OWN PERSONAL PREFERENCES & DESIRES IS TO SEE IT IN IT’S OWN PRISTINE SIMPLICITY.”

Regarding your pop music comment, you wouldn’t want to make everyone have a crash course in Shakespeare & get rid of comic books, for example, would you? Same thing.

Back to the topic. The point of this is that you should remember that music should be FUN. Even though it can be hard work at times, I’ve learnt through experience that it should never be taken TOO seriously. If you approach a performance with a more light-hearted attitude, you’ll easily accept ANYTHING that happens. If anybody turns their nose up at a mistake, f**k ‘em - that’s their problem, not yours. I saw (guitar-wise) an unusually very bad performance by Steve Vai 10 years ago. He made so many f**k-ups but got through it with a FUN attitude (as always). It turned out to be as enjoyable as any PERFECT gig I’ve seen him perform. What’s more, my non-musical girlfriend never even noticed him put a note wrong & also loved the performance.

(Jesus! I better stop now). HOPE THIS HELPS, ADS. JUST HAVE A GOOD, FUN & HEALTHY ATTITUDE & YOU'LL BE FINE. BEST OF LUCK.:)

Ads
10-06-2003, 05:01 PM
thanks everyone

~~ BRYAN ~~
10-07-2003, 06:27 PM
Some great points there, Curt #3000. I also went through severe nervousness when playing in front of people when I was younger & it was all down to the “nit picking musos” that you highlighted. For my first few years as a guitarist, I played small gigs in a couple of amateur bands & it was nothing but FUN, FUN, FUN. I was surrounded by people with great attitudes, & even though I’d naturally get nervous before a gig, it certainly never hindered my performance. The severe nerves came when I made the big mistake of hanging out with the “Musicians Academy” mob in London. Talk about getting in with the wrong crowd!
~~~~~~~~~~~~
I never knew music snobbery existed until I’d hung out with these guys. Like Wizbit81, they also looked down on any type of 'cover' band & ALL popular music in general (probably because they weren’t hearing enough of their favourite Super Locrian licks with warp speed sweep picking). After every performance of my own, I’d get analysed to death & almost gave up guitar altogether simply because the ‘fun’ had gone ~ they’d made me a nervous wreck. YOUR RIGHT CURT ~ most of ‘em WERE seriously pedantic because of their own insecurities. Turns out, I was a target of analysis & put-downs because a few of them were actually jealous of the ability I had to write a good riff or song & ‘connect’ with people. Point is ~ they’re just not worth getting nervous about & certainly don’t deserve to be part of our musical fraternity. Any musician who is really worth his salt is much more respectful of ‘all’ fellow musicians (of any ability) & differing styles ~ this is why I prefer this music forum to many others I have visited. Everybody seems to respect & look out for each other, regardless of differing ability & personal style.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just go along with Curt’s attitude, Ads, & you won’t go far wrong. I don’t know where Wizbit hangs out, but he must have some serious superiority issues himself judging by his attitude. Don’t let his black & white take on an audience put you off. It’s just a fact of life that not everybody’s gonna appreciate a jazz improv in 7/8 over a simple song in 4/4. One’s not better than the other ~ they simply are what they are. As for the pop music comment ~ that doesn’t even warrant an intelligent response. I’m sure Curt, EricV & many other informative contributors to this forum don’t deny that they love tapping their feet along to a bit of simple pop now & then! ~~ ????? ~~ Gone slightly off topic but good luck anyway, Ads.

Ads
10-07-2003, 06:44 PM
Thanks byran
Really appreciated.....
The audiences I play for are ok in that sense but I even have nerves in front of my own teacher!

EricV
10-07-2003, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by ~~ BRYAN ~~
that doesn’t even warrant an intelligent response. I’m sure Curt, EricV & many other informative contributors to this forum don’t deny that they love tapping their feet along to a bit of simple pop now & then!

Hey there...

I don´t wanna speak for the others, but hell, yeah, I love listening pop-music and simple songs... not all pop-music, there´s a lot of stuff that really isn´t my cup of tea, but I very much prefer albums with well-written songs...as a matter of fact, I consider my own songs to be rather simple rock-songs. I mean, tunes like "Hold On Tight" or "Canyon Of SPirits" are basically 3 or 4 chord songs with some simple melodies...
Fess up-time, I guess... yesterday, I listened to Christina Aguileras record ( "Stripped" ) twice. And guess what, at night I listened to Shawn lane´s "Powers Of Ten; Live". This is by no means a comparison of the two, it´s just that I love variety, and I don´t care if anyone thinks that pop-music is not sophisticated enough... throughout the day, I listen to all kinds of stuff, from Zappa to Aguilera, from Paul Gilbert ( his solo albums have a lot of great rock- and pop-tunes ! ) to Steve Morse, Allan Holdsworth to Shania Twain, Dream Theater to Frank Sinatra and I also like to listen to country music... Brad Paisley, brooks & dunn, that kinda stuff...
For me, music is an absolutely integral part of my life, and it depends on what kind of mood I am... I have music for pretty much every mood, and I never go "Oh, I listened to Zappa, I shouldn´t disgrace his musi cby listening to, say, Winger next" or anything like that. I always thought that that kinda thinking was silly. And you miss a lot of great songs if you care too much about that kinda thing
Eric

CURT #3000
10-08-2003, 12:16 AM
I’m sure Curt, EricV & many other informative contributors to this forum don’t deny that they love tapping their feet along to a bit of simple pop now & then! ~~ ????? ~~

You’ve definitely got me sussed … I can’t live without a bit of pop either. I find it healthy to make room for a bit of everything in my life. Like Eric, I also have music for every mood, but I also like the reverse of that too … where the music I hear puts ‘me’ in a certain mood. Sometimes I have days where I only want to listen to traditional jazz, for example, & nothing else will do. Other days I like to be surprised with what comes my way, so I’ve recorded lots of eclectic compilation Mini Discs that contain a wide range of styles (& eras) including some blues, metal, jazz, fusion, prog rock & POP etc. I’m looking up at my shelf now & my Duran Duran & Beatles CDs are sitting nicely alongside my Miles Davis, Dream Theater & Deep Purple collections, thank you very much.

I know what you mean by the Muso’s Academy crowd (Wapping, right?) … I’ve been to a couple of seminars there myself. Talk about ‘up your own arse.’ … Those bas***ds even tried to turn me against my treasured AC/DC collection years ago. They couldn’t fathom the idea that I loved Angus & Malcolm as much as Wes Montgomery & Django. I’ve even heard Vai worshippers at the Academy slagging off all forms of POP music. What the hell is “I Would Love To” if it ain’t pure POP ???????

Wizbit81
10-08-2003, 11:37 AM
well I can't speak for the guys in Wapping but I went to the guitar institute in Acton, (and I live in London too, central London in fact), and yeah they gossip when someone ****s up, (becuase quite frankly if you **** up badly when you play you shouldn't be there, it's supposed to be for the elite!) but they like all sorts of music with one stipulation, that the quality of music and musicians is good. That is my beef with pop music, I don't have a problem with pop performers who are half decent musicians coz they certainly exist, Jimi played pop music, the beatles were cool, there are plenty of bands around today who are good. What I'm talking about is the mass marketed, mass produced **** rammed down the throats of teenagers and even pre-teens now. What is my problem with them? My problem is that because of that **** good music is marginalised and pushed underground, if some of you guys live in London you know those dingy places in Camden where really good jazz players have to play, when bigger venues are hosting the Tweenies, or ****ing Busted for ****s sake. I admit we have got the Jazz Cafe and Ronnie Scotts as very plush venues, but to be honest they're really only having people who play pop jazz and have been doing so for a couple of years, although I do know there are some exceptions, like Trilok Gurtu coming either this month or next, i forget which. Also, by bombarding the young with rubbish they create a situation whereby kids get used to hearing crap and take it as the norm, forever after. Unless they purposely look for it they won't listen to good music in their entire lives. I have friends who are my age (22), and listen to Britney Spears and Westlife, my sister is 31 and listens to Busted! All these bands have in house songwriters who churn out the same progressions and melodies day after day because they know it works. Since when was this what music was about? To me music is like higher mathematics, or art, it is someting you don't expect to get rich and famous off, (if u do your a tosser), it's something you do because YOU WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING ELSE IF YOU TRIED. I don't mean because you can't either, i mean because you'd pine away for playing if u did. Being original is also important in music, how boring is it to hear yet another cloned song where you can sit and pick the bits out and see where the writer pinched things from? To be original though you've got to be dedicated to music, and how many 'pop' stars today know the first thing about that?
Bryan, I'm sorry mate but I will not respect people who claim to be musicians but do it for money or fame. Second, I will not respect people claim to be musicians and who could be much better if they attempted to learn some things. Would you respect someone who said he was a proffessional French speaker and knew 3 phrases, no, you'd think he was a chancer, well that's what I think of those sort of 'musicians'. By the way hanging out with the Guitar Institute guys was great, we all learned loads from each other, lent of each other music we never would have listened to otherwise and grew as players, the people there who got nit-picked, it wasn't nit picking, they played in the wrong key for a solo, or played the rhythm totally out of time, and we told them and told them how to sort it. It's their own ego's fault that they couldn't take it on board that we were trying to help then get better. Quite a lot of people left and later slagged the place off, but the slagging was ego defence because they came in like 'we are the guys' and found they weren't. There's nothing more demoralising than playing in front of about 30 of your peers and making a complete hash of it. The teachers try really hard to help the worst pupils and so do the students, they're constructive at every turn, it;s just that some people realise how far behind they are and give up and leave, (and like I said, then later slag the place off) Oh Bian I also love your immediate judgement that I look down on all covers bands and that I have some serious superiority issues. I have made some serious points about the state of music due to mass produced crap and lazy players and you feel qualified to judge me??? Sorry but I thought I was the one with a Psychology degree. By the way my mate plays in a covers band and plays very very well, they do Blondie covers. He's not artistically happy but it pays the rent and let's him work on other stuff. My point about that was that people rate players of ****ing campfire songs higher than John Coltrane or Scott Henderson because they\re not educated about music. Oh yeah, and the point about shakespeare whoever made that, OF COURSE EVERYONE SHOULD READ SHAKESPEARE!!! Just like everyone should see a Picasso, listen to Mozart, see Citizen Cane, because those works of art are what being human is about, creating something great, not making some kids jump in the air for a month till the next song comes out!!! The one thing people can accuse me of is despairing of society and wishing the education system would get it's act together and properly show kids what being a human being means, not show them how to leave school coz its 'boring' and eat tv dinners and listen to R. Kelly, ( the child rapist by the way who was convicted but still releases sub standard **** into the charts from jail, and now he's been released, releases stuff about how he enjoys gang violence, ahh modern society). gotta go now, rant not finished but i'm off to pick up a mate to have a jam

~~ BRYAN ~~
10-08-2003, 07:39 PM
Great display of elitist superiority issues there, Wizbit. This is the antithesis of what Curt #3000 described as a healthy attitude towards music ~ the very attitude that’s churned out of the Academy AND the Institute. I assure you that if you had studied at the Royal Academy or the Trinity Music College in London, you would have come out with not only a much higher level of musicianship, but also a lot more respect for ‘everything’ that comes under the banner of music. These people really are what you would term ‘elitist,’ but, on the most part, they also display an admirable humbleness & acceptance of music industry issues that seem to wind you up more than most.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You clearly don’t like the fact that some of your friends listen to Britney. If you want to play this dumb superiority game, don’t you think there are plenty of people who could look down on you for studying at such an inferior music college? Although there are facts that could win that argument, music & the arts are totally subjective (no matter how the finished article is produced).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Don’t make us out to be the bad guys. We’re the happy ones who have an optimistic & respectful outlook when it comes to music in general. I’m much older than you, & I can assure you that the manufactured pop that you despise is nothing new ~ it’s been around for decades now ~ learn to live with it. I recently bought my niece a Blue CD. If you could see the pleasure she gets when I strum along with it, you’d realise how redundant your unfounded points really are. THIS is the heart of what music is all about ~ not the rantings of some miserable muso from some dodgy two-bit college. She'd really love visiting her uncle if I turned Blue off & tried explaining that she would be better off listening to Theloneous Monk now, wouldn't she? There’s room for everything in this world ~ if you don’t lighten-up your attitude, your musical world’s gonna be even sadder than it is right now.

Ads
10-08-2003, 07:46 PM
oops misread

Wizbit81
10-09-2003, 01:37 AM
You know what Brian? I absolutely knew you couldn't respond with a well reasoned argument, you obviously haven't read what I've written or even vaguely listened. I've never attacked anyone here or made personal comments about people, I've kept myself strictly to music and tried to offer help to people if it's within my sphere of knowledge. I haven't made u out to be a 'bad guy' or said anything about you, all I've done is try and explain my position while you have goes at me.

quote: 'some miserable muso from some dodgy two-bit college'. There you go again saying rubbish about me when I haven't said anything about you. Like I said before how dare you judge me on my attitute towards lazy people who won't put in the time to get good at music coz they'd rather put their feet up. Second how dare you call me a 'miserable muso'. Honestly I don't know where to start there, you read some comments by someone on the net and think you know about them? It's ridiculous beyond belief.

With regards 'dodgy two bit college', have you been there mate? Have you seen the syllabus? Have you heard Shaun Baxter playing and teaching? Of course not, did you know it has students who have come from Portugal, America, France, Denmark, Sweden, Ukraine, Norway, and Japan, (that was just some of the people in my group), specifically to study there??? Have you even seen the requirements to get on the degree course there? Once again, of course not, you're completely ignorant with regards this.

Quote : if you had studied at the Royal Academy or the Trinity Music College in London, you would have come out with not only a much higher level of musicianship, but also a lot more respect for ‘everything’ that comes under the banner of music.

What absolute rubbish!!! A close friend of mine sings Opera at Guildhall and thinks like I do about the music industry, (industry being the operative word here, seeing as music's all about money these days), and I'd have come out with a much higher level of musicianship would I? Once again rubbish!!! I'd have paid less attention and gone to less classes bacause they were teaching things I wouldn't have wanted to do. I play rock fusion and that can best be taught by the faculty at GI.

quote: These people really are what you would term ‘elitist,’ but, on the most part, they also display an admirable humbleness & acceptance of music industry issues

I believe u mean they are elite. To be elitist is an attitue, it is a fallacy to say they are elitist and then say they are admirably humble, at least if we treat elitist in the derogatory way in which you meant it. If you take it as meaning that people who are the best at things get the highest reward you get closer to what I believe in, a meritocracy, where by the way Shawn Lane would have had no financial worries and the freedom to do as he liked instead of being shafted by record companies and largely ignored by the media.

Quote: You clearly don’t like the fact that some of your friends listen to Britney. If you want to play this dumb superiority game, don’t you think there are plenty of people who could look down on you for studying at such an inferior music college?

No. Where I went was and is the best place I could have gone for what I wanted to do. 'Dumb superiority game', I don't even know what u mean, I have opinions about the poor state and direction of music, and of many musicians, but I don't play games and certainly my opinion is no less valid than yours, so saying I'm 'dumb', (hilarious use of the word considering it actually means someone who can't speak and has nothing to do with intellect), is just you attacking me and attempting to make your opinions worth more by insulting my intelligence. I don't appreciate such childish things, and calling me dumb is quite amusing frankly.

quote: 'I’m much older than you'

What a surprise, you've called me dumb and are now attempting to take the 'I'm older and so my opinion's have more weight' stance in order to back your statements up. Age has nothing to do with this. Oh, and I do know that the monkees were the first manufactured band and that it all spawned from that, it's just that in the last 10 years 'boy bands' and 'girl bands' have set a new precedent for what the public will tolerate. Singing live? Surely you must be joking. They do as routine what Milli Vanilli god persecuted for 10 years ago so don't say things have been like this for 30 years because they haven't, they've got progressively worse as big business tries to screw teenagers and now pre-teens for every penny they can get.

Quote: 'I recently bought my niece a Blue CD. If you could see the pleasure she gets when I strum along with it, you’d realise how redundant your unfounded points really are'

Well it looks like everything I've ever said and thought is wrong, oh my god my world has been turned upside down because your niece, (very young I take it), likes listening to Blue! You enjoy feeding her total crap do you? Would you let her eat McDonalds because listening to that is the aural equivalent. I have a niece who's 5. Know what? Her favourite piece of music is adagio for strings because she has unlimited access to my sisters music collection. She chooses what to listen to, and because she's been exposed to a very eclectic range of music she's developed a sense of what's good music, yeah my sister lets her listen to **** like Blue and boy george, ( i can't be accountable for my sister's taste hehheh), but because she's been exposed to everything she appreciates what music is. By the way she watches me play jazz stuff when I'm home, I don't say 'hey come and listen to aging hipster uncle try and be cool again' (not suggesting that's u Brian before u get uppity), I just play and she comes in sits down and listens quietly. I also like the way you think music's all about strumming in front of someone too young to have a clue, (unless properly educated). Really, I like it, it makes me smile in the middle of the night, (like right now), whats music all about is a good question, the best I can come up with off the top of my head is: Music is about the best expression one can convey using notes and rhythm, but more than that, it's about possibility, surprises, the creativity and ingenuity of the performer, god I can't do it. The best description to me is to listen to a bloody long symphony and experience all the highs and lows and wealth of expression notes with no words can provide. For the last time, it's not about the nonsense disposable mass produced little ditties sung by good looking fashion icons who dance in sync in technicolour costumes designed to take the attention away from the music!

Quote: 'There’s room for everything in this world'

What a hilarious comment, so you believe there's room for paedophilia and murder do you?

On the music side of things, I would agree if the following statements were true:
1 There was no advertising and people had unhindered access to any music ever written.
2 People were all taught rudimentary music by schools and given certain pieces to listen to just as they are given certain books to read, like Shakespeare, (he does crop up a bit doesn't he)
3 Great musicians were given their due in their lifetimes.
4 Music had no 'cool' or 'uncool' status with kids.

Quote: 'if you don’t lighten-up your attitude, your musical world’s gonna be even sadder than it is right now'

Yet another completely ignorant statement about me based on errrrr.... nothing at all. I would get pissed off mate but frankly, that statement's the funniest. My musical world is fantastic. I'm currently listening to Indian and Pakistani musicians, they're amazing with their melodies and vocal abilities and the rhythms, whoah! I listen to plenty of funk, metal, (Opeth are definitely one of the best bands in the world at the moment), Jazz, (Pat Martino never fails to make me grin with amazement at the complex beauty of his lines, along with coltrane and bird), fusion, (Shawn Lane, my number one dude always on the cd player, as he has been for quite a while), weird stuff like Bela Fleck, (he's incredible, anyone heard him to a chopin prelude on the banjo???), Classical, Mozart a fave, along with Chopin and Lizt, and Spanish music, Paco De Lucia is simply not human. You know what Brian? I discover new worlds everyday I never knew existed and broaden my horizon's musically whenever I can. My musical world is a myriad of wonders and colours and cultures and I wouldn't change it for anything. My issue with the music industry would be best summed up by the observation I made the other day. In Virgin Megastore Oxford St. there is one entire floor of pop music, made by pro writers for pretty young things to mime to, now thats a big ****ing shop and one floor is an immense ammount of cd's. You know what? There are four shelves of world music hidden away upstairs, the sort of music produced by people who have been making music in their family for hundreds of years sometimes, where the quiality of musicianship is equalled only by the finest western musicians, Yehudi Menhuin said of one asian musician that he was the finest musician in the world. My issue is that this music is marginalised, ignored, and the people who make it often take to another occupation because they can't make a living doing what they do. As I said in the tolerance post to Eric, the state of things now is where great and good musicians are ignored and sometimes ridiculed for being good. Now pardon me for thinking that maybe that's not right.
Off to drag my sorry 'miserable muso' backside to bed now. When you read this if you really want to have another unreasonable poorly thought out go at me because your prides hurt do so via the private message function, don't take up forum thread room which is supposed to be about other things with your accusational judgemental rubbish.
Thank you very much

Bizarro
10-09-2003, 05:48 AM
You guys are making me nervous!;)

Seriously, it's ok to judge music and say it's crap or it's great, no matter the genre. It doesn't mean that the guy sitting next to you on the bus has the same opinion, nor anyone else in the world. It doesn't mean people should get offended if you don't like a certain genre or group.

Everyone has an opinion, and right or wrong doesn't really apply to opinions.

Obviously you both are passionate about music, which is awesome!:) I think it's time to move past the arguments and let it rest.

It's time to get back to playing guitar, which is why we're here in the first place!:D

Zatz
10-09-2003, 09:16 AM
You guys are making me nervous! ;)

The thread is starting to prove its title... :)
Still the discussion has kept me scrolling the page :)


Obviously you both are passionate about music, which is awesome!

Absolutely agree with Bizarro!

A bit too passionate though :D

Peace,
Zatz.

Zatz
10-09-2003, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by Wizbit81
...did you know it has students who have come from Portugal, America, France, Denmark, Sweden, Ukraine, Norway, and Japan, (that was just some of the people in my group), specifically to study there???

Great - that's what music is for!

I'm in romantic mood today, so here's goes another pic :D

CaptainCarma
10-09-2003, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by Wizbit81
Quote: 'There’s room for everything in this world'

What a hilarious comment, so you believe there's room for paedophilia and murder do you?




dear wizbit,

well educated as you seem to be, you should avoid posting demagogic inspired comparisons like this.


Marc

Wizbit81
10-09-2003, 11:57 AM
I'm all love and peace this morning guys. I was looking down the thread and got hypnotised by all these strange CND piccies, the swirling colours.........somethings happenning.........I'm being posessed by the spirit of the 60's, uhhh PURPLE HAZE yeah!

Sorry Marc if you thought I was a bit strong with the comparison's there. I was just trying to illustrate what a ridiculously badly thought out thing to say it was. I promise to behave like a nun in future ;)

~~ BRYAN ~~
10-09-2003, 01:33 PM
Wizbit, I belong to the RGT, & most of us have been picking up the pieces due to the misguided instruction of a very small handful of poor colleges. Tapes from some of the lessons at these colleges (inc. the Insitute) have been doing the rounds through the RGT for years now, simply for entertainment value ~ they’re hilarious! One session I attended that really sticks out was by a very famous fusion player who insisted that blues players like Buddy Guy & Clapton etc. should not get the accolades that they do, simply because “they don’t vary their scalar choice & have totally ignored the opportunity of super-imposed modal arpeggios over a barren chord progression.” Like your own, this is the sort of attitude I cannot tolerate. Throughout his lesson, he then went on to bitch about record companies, his lack of promotion for his new album etc. The thought never crossed his mind that his music was just atonal, pretentious bulls**t to most people’s ears. I personally get a kick out of it, but I totally understand why people can’t stand it & why record companies aren’t gonna push it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You have to realise that people DO have choice. Of course my niece is in an environment where she is exposed to all kinds of music; I’m a music tutor for Christ’s sake. That’s all I can do ~ ‘expose’ her to it. She gets to hear a massive amount of different music & nobody has twisted her arm to listen to what she listens to. The simple melodies she likes aren’t always my cup of tea, but they make her happy ~ that’s her CHOICE ~ I’m not gonna get upset over it. Who are we to say that Mozart, for example is BETTER. Sure, the music of Mozart is much more complex & technical (physically & theoretically), but at the end of the day, your view of what is ‘better’ concerns mostly just ‘tools.’ I personally find Mozart’s music to be too mathematical & ‘paint by numbers’ for my own taste, but I don’t consider that John Coltrane, who I adore, is therefore BETTER. It’s all subjective. Same goes for Paco De Lucia ~ I’ve studied his style & have a huge amount of respect for the guy, but personally, I can’t listen to his playing. I consider his tone too harsh & thin for my ears & I sometimes cringe with his note choice during improv. I much prefer to hear Julian Bream playing flamenco, but I’m not gonna conclude that people would be somehow better off listening to him.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When you go on about how sh**ty the music business is, you have to remember that the key word is BUSINESS. It’s a fact of life that we have to learn to live with. (By the way, it’s a myth that the Monkees were the FIRST manufactured band ~ it had been going on for years before that). The good thing is, in our own little way we 'can' make a difference by gently exposing people to obscure (industry ignored) music that is dear to us. Look at what the Stones & John Mayall did for the exposure of blues in the 60s. Only this week, I’ve been playing Thorsten’s Born of the Sun MP3 to a couple of my students. They’d never been interested in learning ‘exotic’ scales until they'd heard this ~ they're certainly interested now ~ they love it! I’m not gonna tell them that Thorsten is BETTER than the solo-less nu-metal that they also love to listen to ~ both styles are just as valid to them. Last night I was listening to Jason Becker ~ Right now I’ve got Lauryn Hill playing. One’s not ‘better’ than the other, they just communicate their music in different ways to me. ### If you do wanna change the way things are, you’re gonna have to change your attitude ~ it’s not healthy for you, or anyone around you. Pomposity is a horrible personality trait & certainly will not concur with your growth as a musician. (S**t ~ there goes my lunch break again!)

CURT #3000
10-09-2003, 02:14 PM
Bryan, I’m with you in regard to music (& the arts in general) being totally subjective. At the end of the day, technique & theory are only TOOLS & should not be used to judge & compare particular types of music. I make sure my students fully understand this from the word go.

I think I’ve said it before, & what Wizbit doesn’t understand is that you can’t intellectualise something that is intangible. It’s like a scientist trying to put “how the human heart works (emotionally)” into an equation, & then explaining that some emotions are better than others & should therefore be regarded as ‘highbrow.’

In Wizbits defence, he is still in the early stages of his music education, so hopefully he’ll grow out of this childish pomposity.

>> Anyway, although this thread has gone a bit haywire (sorry Ads – it’s partly my fault too), it’s been an entertaining read nevertheless. See Ya. :D

Thorsten
10-09-2003, 05:35 PM
Hey Bryan! Thanks for promoting one of my songs!

As far as Nu -Metal´s concerned: I really dig Korn and Slipknot´s last albums.

Music is music guys, it´s all different and it´s all good.

I´d like to quote the great Rob Zombie who once said:"To me there´s only two kinds of music...either it´s cool or it sucks!":D

...and I´d like to ad:"What´s cool or sucks is up to your own personal taste..."

Peace
TK

Wizbit81
10-09-2003, 06:12 PM
Well I could say any number of things and many spring to mind but if you can't be the bigger man like I asked you to be earlier I will. Topic finished I'm not gonna bother to post in this thread again and I hope you don't either.

One thing though, will you two stop giving me personal abuse coz I certainly don't and wouldn't think about saying anything about you. Check my posts, I respect that you have opinions and you should respect that I do and you shouldn't say things like I'm 'Childish and pompous.' I don't know you, or anything about you, and you know nothing about me. Don't say anything unpleasent or rude about someone who has opinions as valid as your own, and don't say anything you wouldn't say if I was standing in front of you. Just because I'm at the end of a computer doesn't give you the freedom to be abusive or say ignorant things about me.

EricV
10-09-2003, 07:36 PM
I agree.. let´s stop right here... :)

And Wizbit, thanks for responding in a polite, serious manner... thats one thing I like about this place, no one going over the edge, using profanity and stuff
Thanks

Eric

forgottenking2
10-09-2003, 07:43 PM
WOW "Passion and Warfare" here :D but you both had good points I got a lot out of this thread... and Thorstein's Born of the Sun rocks for sure, I have the whole demo in a CD in my car (don't sue me please!!!!!!!!!! :p ) and that's my definite favorite :D.
Ok that's all I had to say. Thanks for yoru kind attention.

Guni
10-09-2003, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by EricV
.. let´s stop right here... :) Agreed!

If anyone has a problem with this... meet me this coming Wednesday at 8pm at Aragon House, on New Kings Road, on the corner of Parsons Green - Fulham... and we settle this over a pint!

G.

EricV
10-09-2003, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by Guni

If anyone has a problem with this... meet me this coming Wednesday at 8pm at Aragon House, on New Kings Road, on the corner of Parsons Green - Fulham... and we settle this over a pint!

...and he means it !!!

Ads
10-10-2003, 08:48 AM
Lol no need to apologise, it's been interesting.

~~ BRYAN ~~
10-10-2003, 07:02 PM
Thorsten, No problem ~ It’s a really great track. Although I never tire of playing guitar myself, I sometimes get a bit bored listening to other guitarists ~ BOTS really perked up my ears though when I first heard it, & as I said, it’s going down nicely with my students. Been very busy lately, but I look forward to checking out your other material this weekend. # What’s “cool” or what “sucks” personally is pretty much how I see it too ~ I just don’t believe that any form of creativity should ever be seen in terms of “high” or “lowbrow.” # By the way, I’m also an admirer of Korn. Just when I was getting bored with modern metal, these guys came along & really turned things upside down. Some of their creativity can be really beautiful stuff.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wizbit, I agree our sparring has run it’s course but I’d just like to offer an apology for getting a bit carried away & directing everything I said at YOU. We’re obviously both very passionate about our music, but at the end of the day (like everybody on this forum), we’re all on the same side. If I were just a casual reader of our posts, I’m sure I would actually stick up for some of your views myself. The main theme of what I’ve been ranting about is the importance of a musician having respect. Now I’ve had the time to slowly read through everything, I’ve realised that I’ve unwittingly contradicted some of my own points by getting carried away & not showing the same regard to you. For that, I apologise!

Hopefully, we'll encounter each other again under more friendly circumstances. Enjoy your weekend ... Bryan

Wizbit81
10-11-2003, 01:48 PM
No problem's Bryan we're cool as far as I'm concerned. Hope we can be of use to each other in some other threads sometime.
:)

Guni
10-11-2003, 03:33 PM
Nice gestures guys - thank you! http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

Guni

CURT #3000
10-11-2003, 04:16 PM
This ‘high’ & ‘lowbrow’ point of view is probably the only topic that actually winds me up when it comes to music & I got a little carried away too. Although I stand by the gist of what I was talking about, I was intentionally a bit provocative with some remarks, so apologies from me too, Wizbit. I think I took your “get rid of pop music forever” quote a bit too literally. I’m sure you were just referring to your distaste of the overkill of manufactured boy/girl bands rather than ‘popular’ music in general when you made that comment. Like brothers or sisters, this has all just been a bit of ‘in house’ fighting & like Bryan, in any other circumstance, I would most certainly stick up for some of your points of view myself. Reading through the posts again, it’s clear there have been some very good & valid points all round & judging by the ‘view’ figures, Ads (unintentionally) got a very popular thread going here.
-----------
As for Thorsten’s Born Of The Sun – WOW! Very "cool" indeed!!!!
-----------
STAY POSTED ADS!! Gotta pop up to a pub now to see the England v Turkey game. (Can you believe it Guni? – tonight I’m actually going to The White Horse in “PARSON’S GREEN” of all places – I’m a CFC supporter so I know the green quite well– I often think you have strange powers but I didn’t realise you were psychic as well!!) Anyway, point is, I’m meeting a friend who works with pro footballers & he’s got a bit of advice for us all when it comes to the dreaded nerves. Get back to you as soon as I can. Gotta rush. SEE YA

snufeldin
10-11-2003, 11:07 PM
I would just like to add something, or back up one of points made here,

I completely agree about the business part of music. In my city, fort wayne, there are only 4 stations: pop, classic rock, classical/jazz(but it is really talk radio with 30 minutes of music), and more rockish pop (creed). This excludes so much music and doesn't even give most artists the chance of being heard. It doesn't even give them the chance for people to judge whether they like it or not. Is this right? I don't think it is. One type of music is definitely being thrown in preteen faces. Although I listen to pop, appreciate it, I don't think that it is right how biased it makes people against other styles of music.... Not to mention how unaccesible it makes some music... I for one, hate having to search long and hard for music that I like and for variety... but due to how competitive business men have made the music business, it is difficult to experience different types of music.

alright, that didn't really make sense, but I tried.

szulc
10-11-2003, 11:44 PM
You really have to love this place!
What started out as a discussion about being nervous became a flame war Pitting the virtues of higher music against 'fast food' music and now it has become a peace fest and finally a love fest!

I was concerned about the direction this was heading, but I am happy to have it come to a civil end.

Lets all try to keep this forum clean and free from repeats of this type of thing, and try to stay on topic!

~~ BRYAN ~~
10-12-2003, 01:42 PM
Totally agree with you Szulc. It’s been fun though, hasn’t it? Just one more reply to Snufeldin's radio point, then I think we should get back to the topic. Sorry Ads.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The trouble with analogue radio is that it doesn’t highlight a great deal of music that ‘is’ actually really popular & gives uninformed people a very false sense of what the music world is all about. Maiden & Radiohead, for example, have just blown all boy-band competition out the water again in the UK when it comes to ‘genuine’ record sales figures, but you’d never think so if you got all your info from analogue radio. I’ve never been too bothered by it though, as I love the camaraderie of people who ‘seek out’ the music they want to hear ~ in my eyes, this underground ‘feel’ (even though a band may sell millions) makes it all a bit more personal & special ~ just the way music used to be before any form of business took over. I’m sure great artists like Vai, Shawn Lane, Eric Johnson or Dream Theater would not have quite the same die hard following if their music was played everyday on radio. Of course, Vai has musically lived in both worlds ~ he’ll probably never again reach the massive ‘exposure’ heights that he once had with Dave Lee Roth or Whitesnake, but after seeing him live over many years, he really seems so much more content these days & much more appreciative of his ‘very own’ audience.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
However, I must admit I’m getting very excited over DIGITAL RADIO at the moment. It’s still a bit expensive but it really is the very thing you need, Snufeldin. Despite the crystal clear sound, like digi TV, the amount of specialist channels is where it really comes into it’s own. I haven’t got a dedicated unit myself yet, but visiting a friend this morning & flicking through the channels, we had an audio assault of everything from early Sabbath, Zeppelin, Jane’s Addiction, Black Label Society & Motorhead to Billy Holiday, Stephane Grappeli, Mendelssohn, Chet Baker & Joe Pass ~ Heaven!! The great thing is, more channels will be cropping up all the time, so with this immense choice, it’s providing the perfect combination of healthy exposure to often ignored artists without the overkill. If you’ve got the spare pennies, I cannot recommend it highly enough.

CURT #3000
10-15-2003, 05:31 PM
Hi Ads. The mate I referred to at the weekend is a sports psychologist who deals with ‘nerves interfering with performance’ on a daily basis. He works with pro footballers & gets them through nervousness by using visualisation techniques. These techniques also help anybody who places high technical demands upon themselves.

Firstly, he basically explained that ‘confidence’ is something that allows somebody to walk into any ‘unknown’ situation & deal with whatever is thrown at them without feeling nervous. VERY RARE. The misconception is when we watch a guitarist who looks 100% relaxed & plays perfectly in front of an audience, we assume he must have great confidence. If he has never played in front of people before, sure, this ‘would’ be confidence. The chances are though, a guitarist like this would have played in front of an audience many times before & all he is doing is feeling comfortable in a situation he has become accustomed to. Give the same guy a pair of football boots & stick him up front for his country & you’d probably see him crumble. Point is, as Bizarro & Eric etc said, you just have to keep playing in front of people & you’ll soon get used to it. There’s usually no X factor in some people’s personality that allows them to do things that you can’t. Think of all the things you ‘can’ do now that you were once nervous about at some point in your life. You don’t necessarily think you’re a ‘confident person’ doing these things - you just do them. Soon, if you keep at it, playing live will also join this list.

When it comes to ‘visualisation,’ all you have to do is sit or lie down & relax for 10 mins each day & in your mind, go through the motions of whatever you want to achieve. Picture yourself playing in front of an audience & see yourself looking comfortable & relaxed throughout. Because of the way our brains work, you’ll basically be reprogramming your mind to view live performance in a totally undaunting way. The same thing can be done with learning a demanding piece of music. Learn how to play the piece & then visualise going through it for a few mins each day ‘without’ a guitar. Because you won’t have any input from seeing notation, fingers, strings etc, the music will penetrate your mind in a different & deeper way & will become much more an actual ‘part of you.’ When you get back to your guitar, your performance should be all the better for it. Visualisation is such a massive part of sports psychology that my mate, through direct experience, is sure this is why sports stars like Tiger Woods, David Beckham, Zinidine Zidane, Pete Sampras etc. always seem to have the edge over others (even if they’re not playing particularly well). He said that Beckham sometimes plays over in his mind scoring from a free kick 100 times a day & Tiger Woods will visualise the terrain of each fairway before a tournament. Visualisation has also been recognised as a big factor in Virginia Wade winning Wimbledon in 1977, despite usually being technically inferior to her peers at the time.

I find that, unlike sportsmen, our ‘mental’ approach as musicians is rarely discussed. I was wondering if anybody has any experience with any mental techniques that they find useful themselves(?). A friend, who I haven’t seen for a while, played on the same bill/tour as Steve Vai many years ago & mentioned a meditation-type ritual that he would go through before every performance. He used to play with many 'name' musicians but he'd never before witnessed such jaw dropping consistency & always put it down to help from his "strange little ritual." Can’t remember the details, but it involved a pyramid! Anybody got any details?:confused:

forgottenking2
10-15-2003, 07:32 PM
Very interesting... I have heard of that concept but I'm not quite familiar with it, does it really work?

CATS
10-17-2003, 04:46 PM
Really interesting post, Curt. It’s a shame many musicians won’t reach their full potential as they’ll never get to hear about this great technique (visualisation). I started using the technique myself a few years ago & it worked absolute miracles with my playing. If I’m learning a particularly difficult piece, in a similar way to Beckham with his free kicks, I’ll think it over & over at night before going to sleep. It really does work! So many guitarists admire the stunning fret work of guys like Malmsteen, Vai, Petrucci, Di Meola etc., but fail to realise their nimbleness is much more in their MINDS rather than their fingers. I know Vai is very much into Zen, so I’d be very surprised if visualisation didn’t play a big part in his musical life (I’d love to know more about the ‘pyramid’ though).

For anybody who is sceptical over this phenomenon, Manchester Metropolitan University carried out visualisation experiments a few years ago to prove the real power of the mind. A group of people were asked to do muscle pushing exercises. They were then divided into 3 smaller groups … GROUP 1 carried out the same exercises for a month; GROUP 2 did nothing at all for a month & GROUP 3 just ‘visualised’ doing the exercises for a month. The results showed that GROUP 1 increased their push-strength by 33%; GROUP 2 showed no change & GROUP 3 increased their strength by a massive 16%!

I urge anybody reading this thread (who hasn’t tried it before) to give it a go. I’m sure you’ll surprise yourself when you start discovering what you are ‘really’ capable of. >> CATS.

Wizbit81
10-17-2003, 09:43 PM
Yeah I know the experiment in question, I studied it when I was at uni a few years ago, I guess you do Psychology too by the way you described it. There are other cool experiments too, like the one carried out with the random number generator in New York, they got 200 people to think about the number 7 for half an hour, and a machine in the next room spat out more sevens than it should have. 'Big Deal' I hear you cry. Well...... If I told you that this machine was specially designed to be random, and that the probability of what happenned was less than one in 10 billion, then that puts it into context, the mind is a powerful thing. If anyone wants to know just how powerful cheack out the book called Margins of Reality. It's written by lecturers and researchers at Stanford University and based on 30 years of research into what the mind is capable of. It's written in a very academic style, it's a series of reports and experiments not a novel, but it's fascinating reading if u want to give it a go. That goes for anyone and everyone, not just CATS. PEOPLE POWER!!!

CURT #3000
10-18-2003, 12:49 AM
Hi Wizbit. I was just wondering if you picked up on anything during your psychology degree that you find particularly applicable to the way you approach your guitar playing (?). I’ll definitely look out for Margins of Reality – sounds fascinating.
----------------------------------------------------
Cats, I realised guitar playing was all in the mind, rather than the fingers when I followed Steve Vai’s 10-hour a day workout in Guitar World magazine around 10/11 years ago. I soon realised that my fingers were nimble, but my mind hadn’t followed suit. A great Vai exercise that comes to mind is when warming up - rather than playing frets 1 2 3 & 4 from the bottom E string, then working your way up & down the strings (& up the neck) in that order, try instead to change the order of the notes so that each finger becomes the ‘start’ note: Bottom E would be 1 2 3 4; A string would be 2 3 4 1; D string would be 3 4 1 2; G would be 4 1 2 3 then B would resume to the 1 2 3 4 again. This is a great exercise to not only warm up your fingers but it most certainly gets your BRAIN in gear. I found that once I got my head around exercises like this, I could pretty much play anything that was thrown at me.

-----------------------------------------------------2-3-4-1---4-5-2-3-
------------------------------------------1-2-3-4------------------------
--------------------------------4-1-2-3----------------------------------
---------------------3-4-1-2---------------------------------------------
-----------2-3-4-1-------------------------------------------------------
-1-2-3-4-----------------------------------------------------------------


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-5-2-3-4---------------------------------------------------------------------
------------2-3-4-5------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------3-4-5-2--------------------------------------------etc.-
--------------------------------4-5-2-3------------------------4-5-6-3------
-------------------------------------------5-2-3-4--3-4-5-6-----------------

A lot of people find this very tricky at first but if you take it slowly & methodically, it really will be worth your effort. CURT:)

Wizbit81
10-18-2003, 01:43 AM
hmmmmmmmmm.... Anything relevent to guitar playing. Yes and no would be the answer here I guess Curt. There's plenty of general things but specifics are a bit thin on the ground. I mean I know loads about the way we learn stuff, and the way memory works and so that helps. I know about what you can say to be genetic and what you can say to be the result of nurture. I know what the human mind can do, I know how to 'think outside the box' because I've spent time studying why people think 'in the box'. I'm trying to get a scholarship for a doctorate at the moment, I want to study how music affects the brain and how it can be used in therapy and this (if I get it), would let me give you more specific information. If you wanna try something cool immediately, bear in mind this might seriously do weird things to you, (or have no effect at all depending on the person frankly), try listening to drumming at speeds of 208 bpm +. It must be of a steady repetitive beat like a metronome or something. You should sit down in the dark and clear your mind while doing this, try not to think of anything but concentrate on the rhythm. If you do this the drumming should make your brainwaves slow down to the same speed as the metronome, (both alpha and theta activity should occur), and you might well experience a waking dream that takes on a life of it's own, like a hallucination. It's not frightening, but BEWARE::: this can cause psychological feelings of depersonalisation which can be dangerous. You should try to know where you are but allow it to happen.

That's more to do with brain waves, music, and spirituality but it's pretty cool :D

As for stuff I could say that might help anyone.........
1. Believe it or not 5-10 mins meditation before playing makes you much more creative, (it's about brain wave states again.)
2. Having a list of goals and ticking them off as you go works as positive reinforcement, or you could set a target and treat yourself when you reach it. Just as important is negative reinforcement, punishment, if you don't reach your goal withold the treat, (I know it's like dog training but I swear it works!)
3. Visualisation, (it's already been mentioned but it's so important), visualise not only playing stuff but where you wanna be, playing stadium's etc.
4. Memory stacking, if you wanna know about this pm me coz I'm tired and it takes a lot to write about it.
5. Shifting information from short term memory to long term memory. Easy one here, practive something 20 times a day for 20 days and you'll never ever forget it, it'll be burned into your brain like a D chord is. (Thanks for that one NASA training programs)
6. Positive attitute, don't have this you ain't going anywhere. Obvious but so many people beat themselves up about playing badly and not how they want to play. See what more there is to do and try to be excited by that.
7. Do hard stuff that you can't do before you go to bed and then try in the morning, (50-90% better coz you've done it when asleep!).
8. Get into a routine, they're hard to break when you're on a roll.
9. Do exercise. Endorphins blah blah, Loads more mitochondria blah blah, more energy blah blah, body alert not in standby mode blah blah, learn something do exercise then do it again and it'll be learnt better blah blah. Getting knackered now.
10. Oh yeah, and you wanna know what caffeine or nicotine does to people when they try to do stuff?? Ever seen the web a spider makes when it's had caffeine, it's useless. Stimulants are good for concentration but the results are poor. Ever done a piece of work when on loads of caffeine and then read it later, at the time you thought it was good but it was actually crap! I've got a particular beef with caffeine coz I'm sensitive to it, it makes me hyper and gives me a headache for days after just one coffee. For people used to it it's not that bad, but as a general rule it ain't good.
Right off to bed coz my eyes hurt and it's nearly 3am. If anyone finds anything useful plz let me know, or if they wanna ask anything feel free. I know some of this has been 'pop' psych, but hey I'm tired and it's been 2 years since I looked at my texts. Oh, and to anybody who tries the drum thing, (half an hour listening at least to get an effect: BE CAREFUL, and pm me with the results coz I'd like to know what experiences people have, if any)
Cheers,
:)

CURT #3000
10-18-2003, 09:16 PM
Thanks a lot Wizbit – great stuff there!

In regards to stimulants, I gave up both cigarettes & caffeine quite a while ago now & the clarity of thought I have now is pretty amazing – I thought I was OK before, but it’s honestly as though a shroud has been lifted from my mind. When I gave up caffeine, I suffered with terrible headaches for a few days - must be really powerful stuff! I’ve even heard doctors say that despite Ozzy’s obvious lifestyle, a massive factor that causes his ‘shakes’ is the sheer amount of caffeine he consumes (coffee, cola etc.). And as for Aspartame, we better not get started on that one!

Anyway, I’m busy at the mo but you’ve really got me intrigued by some of your other points (208+bpm, memory stacking etc.). Can’t wait to have a bit of time off to investigate these matters … I might have to pick your brains again soon.

Thanks again
Take care … Curt

Wizbit81
10-19-2003, 01:52 AM
No problem dude, whatever I can do to help.

Oh and I'm really glad I found someone who knows about the whole caffeine thing. I gave up after drinking maybe 2 cokes and 3 coffees a day for about 10 years and had terrible headaches like you but for about 2 weeks. Now if I have a coffee I'm ****ed for days after. But yeah, I think you're so much calmer and better able to apply yourself to tasks without it. Practice also seems easier and I'm less prone to distractions.

Feel free to ask me about whatever, I might give more coherent answers during the daytime :). If you try the drumming thing though, do remember to stay grounded. I can't stress enough that depersonalisation can be extremely psychologically dangerous if ur not prepared, u won't go mad or anything, (obviously), but it can cause like a mid life crisis sort of thing. Lots of existential angst and all that kind of malarky.

Good Luck

TheOneOfLight
10-04-2005, 05:39 PM
You should like...Work out before you go out and play. Metallica has a work out room before they play or somethin like that. I say if you do that it will give you a big boost of confidence

whopwooper
10-04-2005, 06:54 PM
Maybe your thinking too much??:confused:......Somtimes the more you think about congunctive daily tasks and the worse you do them ...Not just playing an instrument........So many folks have started this Nervous thread so I'd have a look at few simmilar themes from rougly 6 months back.........

But It's inevitable to get somehow self-concious when about to play in front of half a ton of folks.........Alcohhol and to much coffee or Cigarets can play Havokk with your nerves........I tried about a 2 week period without Drinking or smoking and found I could concentrate and think much clearer than usual....Bad experiences at playing in front of folks really scar your self esteem.......

Think of some profi player letting it all hang out......Ask your self does the person look worried...NO!.....Do they look like they are havin a good time...Yes!........do they look like thes give a monkeys....NO!.......
This helps me to forget yourself/myself ....it's arule that folks who take stuff to seriously are usually not much better of for it.;)

I live in German speaking room so am effected by the mentality ....They are really brutall about critic/ Honesty/ and and have different ways of seeing almost everything.......On saying which comes to mind is......."Kann er das"?
Can he do it?........Simple......Think you can do it and don't woory about the folks who are going to judge you by what they hear.