View Full Version : loads of concerns

08-22-2003, 10:42 PM
i am a singer in a band in my area. i just moved here recently and there is a sever lack of culture, a few weeks ago i saw a flyer for a local band that was looking for a lead singer and i called them up. we all got along pretty well and had similar interests in music. a few problems have, however come up and i don't really know how i should try and address them being the new guy and all. i really don't even know how to describe them to be perfectly honest.

i am almost 23 years old and the rest of my band is 16-19 i am having trouble with some of the attitudes that the guitarists have. our rhythm and lead guitarists both taught themselves how to play and are quite talented for the amount of time they have been playing. our rythm guitarist however seems disgusted by the idea of actually learning about music.

citing a specific example i had talked about a friend of mine who played the drums and studied at music tech in minneapolis for a few years

his reply was to describe this as the cheap way out and the easy way to learn....i con't deal with all of the cynical idealistic crap for much longer but i don't want to leave the band either because there is a whole lot of potential there.

advice or thoughts on the topic would be appreciated


08-23-2003, 03:46 AM
I would advise bringing up topics that may some what gradually force him to learn. For example, "can you play that in eminor?" "could you try that in a different mode" "what about a spanish scale there?" that sorta stuff. Possibly. That could work. maybe.

Lemme know how it goes.

08-23-2003, 11:39 AM
I dunno whether the guys in you rband are going "Nah, I donīt need no theory, itīd ruin my creativity". That, to me, seems to be a very common excuse not to learn about theory and stuff.

Well, yesterday I did a review of Jon Finnīs book, and he wrote about that attitude. Iīd like to quote him, since that stanza is very well put, and sums up pretty much what I think about that attitude, too...

"(...) If you have creative abilities, you donīt lose them by increasing your knowledge base. Itīs true that thining a certain way can block the creative flow. The creative process has a certain magical element that is unexplainable. Knowing more doesnīt remove the magic. If anything, understanding more helps you appreciate the magic on a deeper level."
( from "Advanced Modern Rock Guitar Improvisation" by Jon Finn, MB 98053BCD )

08-23-2003, 03:13 PM
Hey Jackleg, to tell ya truth i think you should just let him do whatever he pleases, as time goes by heīll end up learning something, by osmosis maybe but something will stick to him. Then again you could just read him Ericīs quote on FInns book, or just slap him and make him learn. YOu can tie him up in the basement and feed him fish heads till he can recite all Maj, Min triads and 7th chords :) jkjk

Bongo Boy
08-26-2003, 04:01 AM
Originally posted by jackleg
our rythm guitarist however seems disgusted by the idea of actually learning about music.Notice that he's not actually got a problem with learning about music--he has a problem with a particular way of learning about music. He may actually have other problems too, such as being envious of those who he feels got their way paid to go to school (which may not be the case at all), or he may have had a lot of trouble with schoolwork.

his reply was to describe this as the cheap way out and the easy way to learnBecause school is so inexpensive an easy, I suppose. :D

I'd say don't give up the huge opportunity to play with this band, but you might also look for a chance to work with a small group of folks with your experience or who have even greater experience (in life as well as music).

You're probably not in as big a void as you think...there's probably someone there looking for a better environment too. Ask around at music shops--I find bartenders seem to know the guys in the bands fairly well, too. I dunno...I am not a smart guy.

08-26-2003, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by jackleg
our rythm guitarist however seems disgusted by the idea of actually learning about music.

I think the most common reason for this attitude is the fear of loosing ones musical personality. And that is maybe coming from low self-reliance. The music might be the one place where your guitarist is allowed to think for himself, surrounded by demanding parents and teachers, not to mention other band members ;)

This is how it worked for me at least, and i never had any trouble in school or anything like that, so it canīt be attributed to being stoopid (at least not in the educational system way). Iīm still struggling to convince myself that learning theory is the only way i will gain any musical abilities within a not too distant future, and iīm frikkin 33 years!, so iīve had some time to ponder it all. Mental barriers are rock hard!

So go easy, donīt suggest he should really learn theory, no such argument is gonna break through - the effect will probably be the opposite. metaljustice83's idea might work, throw in some challenging comments (but donīt be too obvious) thatīll make him go home and start reading.

08-26-2003, 07:33 AM
Although most players adopting that attitude, havenīt yet developed a very own style, this feeling runs so deep within itīs bound to be inherited from early on in the human history - like, if it hadnīt been for individuals going against the stream, we would still be in cages.
So in a way, it is a good thing. If only that method didnīt take so darn much time and effort :)

08-26-2003, 09:29 AM
I think the attitude can also come from people who don't like to admit there is a lot they could learn/improve. I know I get pretty daunted when I think about all there is to learn just in music theory, as well as technique, etc.

I enjoy the learning, but sometimes it feels like I'm walking up the down escalator... each step is an achievement, but you look up and it still looks like you're just hovering at the bottom and the top is no closer :p

08-26-2003, 09:45 AM
Just like to add: these indifferences fade by time. The better you get to know each other, the better you get at working together, as i learned since posting this here whining (http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1848) :D

Bongo Boy
08-27-2003, 05:27 AM
So..is the issue getting addressed, then, with the vocalist?

You know, you weren't whining at all--it's a really tough problem, and it gets in the way of progress probably more than any other kind of issue.

08-27-2003, 07:11 AM
Yo!, nah.. It wasnīt so much an issue with the vocalist as is was a general lack of communication, and that is still an issue, iīm afraid... We took time off for a month now, because i said something stupid like -'We canīt communicate musically!'. And they look to me for leadership, crazy as that is...hehe. Anyway, we got together the other day, and things worked out a little better. We had great fun, and we agreed there where certain parts of certain songs that needed attention. We even dropped two things. Theyīre in the bag now, waiting to be used in some other song, or dropped for good. So i guess weīre getting better at working together at least, although it comes more with time and getting to know each other, than with actively working out the issues. We'll grow on each other, iīm sure.

Thanks for your concern, youīre one heck of a dude, Bongo! :) And you are right there, it is a big issue. And delicate too. I would sure like to see someone write an article on that, maybe youīre the one to do it, Bongo? Sure you are!