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leegordo
05-27-2008, 10:32 AM
Ok, here it is from your old enemy leegordo.
You must learn to listen to old good songs-whether you like them or not, in order to gain knowledge of how to construct a song properlyThat is with a beginning, a middle an end.
a real song does not consist of one short 2 bar phrase repeated to infinity with an accompanying two or three chord backing which as often as not does not fit the two-bar melody!
!st get a good melody, preferably composed with suitable Lyrics round about THE SAME TIME! Then is the time to think of the most suitable harmonies which will enhance your lyrics and really emphasise the feeling of the song.
I feel that is the proper way to approach song-writing. Well! anyway that's how the old greats did it!!!.
If it was good enough for them.- then it should be good enough for anybody!!
leegordo

LaughingSkull
05-27-2008, 12:17 PM
ad nauseam.

Blutwulf
05-27-2008, 01:32 PM
You're not our "old enemy," Leegordo. Nobody here is irrational enough to harbor a genuine emotion for a bulletin board poster (except, well, I secretly love Phantom, but that is another story).

However, we may frequently argue with your posts. That is because you consistently make the same logical fallacies in every one.

Leegordo, the "old greats" to which you refer all heard your exact same speeches about how they should abandon their contemporary ways and revert back to older stylings. These "old greats" were, once upon a tme, avant garde weenies who were different from the classics. But they also heard their contemporaries praising them. Also, you frequently post as if there is an objective measure of quality to music. The closest you can get to an objective measure is popularity. Are you certain that you want to objectify all this?

The whole old school versus new school argument in any creative discipline has been around ever since the first arts instructor at the first school in Babylon croaked and had to be replaced. ("But... but Mr. Xerksalon taught it the other way!!!") Go listen to and enjoy what you like, Leegordo. Personally, I like 70's rock, and abhor the crap on the radio today - but I am not divorced from reasoning enough to claim that one is "better" than the other.

UKRuss
05-27-2008, 04:12 PM
70s rock IS better.

Blutwulf
05-27-2008, 05:03 PM
Well, it is only better if one likes good music.

CaptainCaveman
05-27-2008, 10:21 PM
Let's make a thread called "Great songs based on simple 2-bar phrases" I'm sure we can think of plenty.

Did you start this thread just so you could write "com'poser'"?

leegordo
05-28-2008, 01:36 PM
You're not our "old enemy," Leegordo. Nobody here is irrational enough to harbor a genuine emotion for a bulletin board poster (except, well, I secretly love Phantom, but that is another story).

However, we may frequently argue with your posts. That is because you consistently make the same logical fallacies in every one.

Leegordo, the "old greats" to which you refer all heard your exact same speeches about how they should abandon their contemporary ways and revert back to older stylings. These "old greats" were, once upon a tme, avant garde weenies who were different from the classics. But they also heard their contemporaries praising them. Also, you frequently post as if there is an objective measure of quality to music. The closest you can get to an objective measure is popularity. Are you certain that you want to objectify all this?

The whole old school versus new school argument in any creative discipline has been around ever since the first arts instructor at the first school in Babylon croaked and had to be replaced. ("But... but Mr. Xerksalon taught it the other way!!!") Go listen to and enjoy what you like, Leegordo. Personally, I like 70's rock, and abhor the crap on the radio today - but I am not divorced from reasoning enough to claim that one is "better" than the other.
BlutWulf, You are entitled to like whatever you like in any field or endeavour......What gets right up my nose ,is, you refuse to admit that the musicians in the popular genre' were great players , everybody that I met during those 40 to 50 yrs consistently praised their music and playing. You must admit that you have never ever said that they were great You are bound to know they were great! if only by 'reput, so I say that your view of this great old stuff has been spoiled by simple ignorance and stubborn-ness .....and dare I say envy?
leegordo

Blutwulf
05-28-2008, 01:59 PM
...you think that I do not regard the old greats as "great?" You're raving mad, of course. See, we call them old "greats" because they were... drumroll... "great." You bet your wrinkly little arse that I envy the likes of them.

My view of "this great old stuff" is that I love it, and have a great deal of it in my music collection. You seem to stumble over the fact that I do not regard it as having any greater societal "worth" or "betterness" than contemporary stylings.

Your inability to regard new as well as old both as being worthy is a shortcoming in yourself, Leegordo. Our ability to love all music - not just that which was handed to us and told as great - is a benefit. One can love the old stuff and still embrace the new, Leegordo.

Edit: ...you say that gets "right up your nose?" What a bizarre expression.

Spino
05-28-2008, 03:25 PM
Amen!!!

leegordo
05-30-2008, 03:25 PM
Let's make a thread called "Great songs based on simple 2-bar phrases" I'm sure we can think of plenty.

Did you start this thread just so you could write "com'poser'"?
CaptainCaveman, I said A two bar phrase "Repeated" 'ad infinitum' for minutes on end , If you consider that to be how music should be constructed then GOD help us all.
leegordo
















leegordo

CaptainCaveman
05-30-2008, 03:48 PM
I have been involved with music for too long to believe that there is only one proper way to create it. You sound like you do, however. A lot of meditative music creates a hypnotic effect by repeating the same phrase over and over, changing its quality slowly through dynamics, timbre etc. If you don't like that, then that's cool, but some people do, and you don't have the right to say "my noise is better than yours." Besides you are cheating yourself. You can learn from just about every style of music. What you are claiming is just your personal taste.

Revenant
06-01-2008, 04:32 PM
CaptainCaveman hit the nail right on the spot past all the euphoric bull**** rants posted above.

You MUST have an open mind if you want to evolve musically. Everything that you play or compose has been done before to some extent; that is, if you reduce it to tonality. Tonality is an idiom. If you play "wrong" notes or extremely dissonant music to a child, the child will not react in disgust as most adults would.
This reaction to "wrong" notes is a taught perception. We are brainwashed to have these musical preferences.
This means that no one is 100% free to create the music they wish and still be successfull. And that is why you must listen to what has been done before and that has succeeded. Copying fragments of the code to success is acceptable. And speaking of genres, there is successful music in all genres - which is why having an open mind can greatly contribute to your musical vocabulary.

The musicians that I know who are close minded are the ones who have been stuck in the same tiring ruts for years because they refuse to be vulnerable to new music. The open minded musicians that I know however, are the truly musically expressive individuals. They play music because they love it, and not because of some image or whatever...

And that was MY euphoric bull**** rant :)

Daveo
06-10-2008, 05:29 AM
Guessing you aren't a big fan of Sigur Ros then leegordo

CaptainCaveman
06-10-2008, 11:45 AM
Doesn't sound like he is, but I sure am.

ZakJenkins
06-10-2008, 01:14 PM
Leegordo, are you a musician?

If you are, then you must only play covers, because any music you create would be too "new" for your tastes.

LaughingSkull
06-11-2008, 05:13 AM
No, It woudn't. He is one of the 'old masters'. Or just old perhaps ... ;)