PDA

View Full Version : ear training?



leegordo
05-11-2008, 01:46 PM
Wearily, I again state that a person who is unable to recognise random common chords without reference to any source of musical device is going to have a difficult time trying to transpose efficiently any unfamiliar melody or tune or song.Studying 'ear training' is unlikely to help, however, I do not include that 31/2 chord stuff in the category of music which I referred to
leegordo

JazzMick
05-11-2008, 02:45 PM
*shakes his head*

Wha?

Let me try and rephrase your statement. Just to see that I understood it.

---
If a person can not recognize a common chord progression by ear. Without the aid of an instrument to help them work out what they are hearing.
They are going to find it difficult to transpose an unfamiliar melody.

Ear training will not help this person either.
(not sure what your getting at with the '31/2' part)
----

In response.

If a person cannot recognize a common chord progression. Chances are, they are not familiar with that chord progression.

Familiarizing themselves with that progression will eventually make it easier for them to recognize it by ear. Just as a baby does not recognize its parents language, until it learns to speak that language. This is ear training. Apparently it works ;)

As for transposing an unfamiliar melody. Really? Who would even try unless they had learn't it in at least one key to begin with!

Blutwulf
05-11-2008, 05:55 PM
Wearily, I again state that a person who is unable to recognise random common chords without reference to any source of musical device is going to have a difficult time trying to transpose efficiently any unfamiliar melody or tune or song.Studying 'ear training' is unlikely to help, however, I do not include that 31/2 chord stuff in the category of music which I referred toLike JazzMick, I had to read this a few times. Let me try too...

"A person unable to "A" will have difficult time doing "B." Ear training will not help (I do not include argle bargle mumbojumbo)."

Well, let's look...

Item A is "recognize chords without holding an instrument."
Item B is "transpose an unfamiliar tune."

The two items are unrelated, of course. Recognizing chords when you hear them is simply a function of practice/time/exposure. Transposing an unfamiliar tune is an exercise in re-scoring a tune in a new key (which can be done mathematically, by a deaf person).

Leegordo goes on to assert that "ear training is unlikely to help." Sadly, he doesn't say which item it will not be able to help. But... But if we look at the two items, we see that item A is purely a function of ear training, so that is not it. He must be talking about item B? But B, while not actually needing a functioning ear can be facilitated as well by exposure and recognition of tones.

So I am still not sure what Leegordo is saying. That, or he simply hates musicians who can hear a chord progression and tell him what it is. Jury's out.


...perhaps he meant "transcribing?"

leegordo
05-13-2008, 03:49 PM
Like JazzMick, I had to read this a few times. Let me try too...

"A person unable to "A" will have difficult time doing "B." Ear training will not help (I do not include argle bargle mumbojumbo)."

Well, let's look...

Item A is "recognize chords without holding an instrument."
Item B is "transpose an unfamiliar tune."

The two items are unrelated, of course. Recognizing chords when you hear them is simply a function of practice/time/exposure. Transposing an unfamiliar tune is an exercise in re-scoring a tune in a new key (which can be done mathematically, by a deaf person).

Leegordo goes on to assert that "ear training is unlikely to help." Sadly, he doesn't say which item it will not be able to help. But... But if we look at the two items, we see that item A is purely a function of ear training, so that is not it. He must be talking about item B? But B, while not actually needing a functioning ear can be facilitated as well by exposure and recognition of tones.

So I am still not sure what Leegordo is saying. That, or he simply hates musicians who can hear a chord progression and tell him what it is. Jury's out.


...perhaps he meant "transcribing?"
I'm so sorry I meant transcribe NOT transpose What I said still applies to transcriptions!!

Blutwulf
05-13-2008, 11:41 PM
Well, Leegordo, if a person is able to hear a note and know what it is, it would logically follow that transcribing it is a tad easier, eh? Ear training will facilitate this sort of thing.

Revenant
05-18-2008, 11:22 AM
Music is sound, its not analysis. All the analysis in the world won't help you become better at music if you don't have an ear to go with it.

leegordo
05-19-2008, 11:45 AM
Music is sound, its not analysis. All the analysis in the world won't help you become better at music if you don't have an ear to go with it.
revenant you said it buddy , without a good natural 'ear' you will be struggling to TRANSCRIBE and/or ad-lib to any worthwhile degree of competance!!
The better your natural 'Ear' is then the better you will always be at those two activities in music, than anybody who does not posses a good natural 'Ear' for music.
From day1. The guy with the natural' Good-ear, will always be ahead of the guy who has not got a good 'Ear', no matter if he studies 'Ear-training' 'til he's blue in the face!
leegordo

Revenant
05-19-2008, 07:49 PM
Its true that a good ear for music is vital, but it doesn't mean that some people are born with a better ear than others. There may be extreme cases of stupidity where people have no sense of consonance or dissonance whatsoever, but I think its more a question about how young one is when first exposed to music and how frequent this exposure is. Its like learning a language, you won't become as good at it if you start as an adult than if you started before the age of 10.

borge
05-20-2008, 08:13 AM
revenant you said it buddy , without a good natural 'ear' you will be struggling to TRANSCRIBE and/or ad-lib to any worthwhile degree of competance!!
The better your natural 'Ear' is then the better you will always be at those two activities in music, than anybody who does not posses a good natural 'Ear' for music.
From day1. The guy with the natural' Good-ear, will always be ahead of the guy who has not got a good 'Ear', no matter if he studies 'Ear-training' 'til he's blue in the face!
leegordo
:confused::confused::confused:
this is total total rubbish (just like pretty much everything you say)

leegordo, i suspect you think people simply either have "an ear" or dont because it was so long since you developed your own ear you now assume your ear (and everyone elses) has been static since birth.

I've worked long and hard on my ear and have caught up with and surpassed many of my peers who i *thought* had "naturally good ears" but in hindsight all they had was a slight head start on me.

CaptainCaveman
05-20-2008, 03:01 PM
Rubbish indeed!

Research in the development of music students always shows that there is a link between haw much you train and how much you learn. Some people have developed a good ear accidentally by playing a lot of music by ear, and it may seem to them, that they have some natural gift, simply because they don't understand it. I have practiced a lot of solfege, sight singing, chord progression identification etc., and at seems to me that all those things that seemed "mytical" to me before simply had to be broken down and analysed. i am not saying that we are not different beings, we all have our physical and mental differences, but i do not know anyone who hasn't benefited from ear training.