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Koala
05-10-2003, 07:08 PM
Hey Guni! On the 7th chords article, I get the dont play cmaj7 1st inversion, play C6 instead.
But then i get a bit confused, the article says:

Lets get this straight:

Don't play a Cmaj7 chord when e.g. your singer sings the note c. Use a C6 chord (Wouldnīt it be ok to play Cmaj 7 in the root position when the singer sings C?)

And it also says that if in sheet music it says Cmaj7, i play C6.
Canīt i just play Cmaj7 in the root position and just avoid Cmaj7/E ?

I guess the real question behind all this is, should i just absolutely forget about Cmaj7 and absolutely always play C6?


Thanks


K

szulc
05-10-2003, 11:22 PM
What is being said here is don't use X Maj7 when X is the melody note.

There is no Cmaj7 chord with the note c in the top voice

Don't trust sheet music. If the chord symbol says Cmaj7 and the melody note is a c the chord symbol is wrong. It should say C6.

Don't play a Cmaj7 chord when e.g. your singer sings the note c. Use a C6 chord.
My question for Guni is why is (1st inversion Drop 2)
c
g
e
b

Not valid? (It is a C Maj 7 with C in the Top Voice and it doesn't violate the other rules.)

Koala
05-10-2003, 11:34 PM
According to me, according to what i think Guni explains (hehe here we go) a cmaj7 1st inversion drop 2 worked out step by step would turn out to be:
Piano Voicing
C
E
G
B

1st Inversion
E
G
B
C

Drop 2
G
E
B
C

This would give us the two top voicings with a m2 interval between them, and that kinda covers up the C and makes it buzz. So im thinkin youd have to rearrange and substitute the 6th for the 7th.

G
E
A
C


Please let me know if all i just said was absolute nonsense.


:)

Koala
05-10-2003, 11:35 PM
Oh yeah by the way, is melody note the same thing as root?


thanks

K

Koala
05-10-2003, 11:37 PM
Or does it simply mean the note the melody is on at some point during a song?

Ok im confused now so ill wait for those of you who know to make me look stupid :D heheheheh

szulc
05-11-2003, 12:20 AM
Your example is going down and my example is going up.
But you are making a mistake with the Drop 2 part.
From lowest to highest the notes of a first inversion C maj 7
are EGB(A)C the Drop 2 drops the 2nd HIGHEST tone 1 octave.
In this case B (A) so the drop 2 version would be from lowest to highest B(A)EGC, and therefore there would be no m9 or m2 between any tones (Even if we use B instead of A).

szulc
05-11-2003, 12:24 AM
1st Inversion
E
G
B
C This is correct if the lowest tone is E and the highest tone is C, therefore the second voice from the top is B.

Guni
05-11-2003, 09:05 AM
The most important statement is this:

!!Never have an interval of a minor ninth between any of the voices.

Most of the time a C6 chord will be used as the I chord - so you wanna make sure it sounds like a one = stable. The b9 interval is a very disonant interval and it kinda 'breaks' the stable sound of a I chord.

Attached is in detail the Cmaj7 chord with 1st inversion, then with Drop2 (see the resulting b9 in there?) - last there's the C6 1st inversion Drop2.

szulc
05-11-2003, 01:40 PM
Ok what about an octave plus an m9? Is that ok or still bad juju?
For some strange reason that is what I thought this had.

Koala
05-11-2003, 03:32 PM
Oh I see what youre getting at szulc. So i did make an *** of myself =).

First you invert, then you drop 2. copy that.

thanks


K

Guni
05-11-2003, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by szulc
Ok what about an octave plus an m9? Is that ok or still bad juju?
For some strange reason that is what I thought this had. Now I'm getting confused :rolleyes:

Anything with a minor 2nd (between the top 2 voices) and a minor 9th (between any of the voices) falls into this category.

Cmaj7 1st inversion includes a m9 interval between b and c, so we make the b an a.

You could also have an octave plus a m9, which will barely happen, but is the same logic.

Is this you question?

szulc
05-11-2003, 05:03 PM
One more try....
Are you considering any 1/2 step or Octave plus a half step or N octaves plus a half step the same as a m9 and therefore to be avoided? Or once you have spanned an octave plus a m9 that it is now no longer dissonant?

Guni
05-12-2003, 07:48 AM
ah ok - I see.

yes, N octaves plus a half step is treated the same as a m9 and should be avoided.