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Thread: Scale formulas into Scale Patterns, Also Some thoughts on Unconventional Metal Lead..

  1. #1
    Since 1988 Carvinite's Avatar
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    Scale formulas into Scale Patterns, Also Some thoughts on Unconventional Metal Lead..

    Ok guy's I guess we can start this post off with the actual question and then move to the discussion.

    When you read a new scale formula (Take the diminished scale, the one that I have been working on latlely.)

    I have the half-whole and the whole-half

    "In the key of E the official UMHGK (Universal Metal Head Guitar Key )

    Whole Half Diminished

    E F# G A A# B# C# D# E

    Half Whole Diminished

    E F G Ab Bb Cb Db D E"-ForgottenKing2

    Now he gave me his patterns, but I am trying to figure out the ways to come up with my own fingerings, what are some of the things you guys do when looking at a scale formula and come up with fingerings all over the neck?


    Ok now after the long drawn out question, I am trying to find unique scales to use in Metal music, I want to add a Odd errie felling to my solo's, which I got from the overused and at sometimes Cliche, Harmonic Minor & Aolein (is that spelled right?) scales. I HATE when my playing sounds cliche, or overly bland in general. Phrygian and Dorian modes have been helpful but have often lent a to up-beat feel in my music.
    Are there any scales that you guys may consider new to my tastes. While being pleasurable to my ears.
    I am looking for the errieness in the fashion of Testament's 'New Order' days, Runs with the compositional integrity of Freidman & Becker, with the crazziness of my main man Dimebag, but with that sense of love, passion, hate, resitiance, rebellion that is so evident in the riffing and background music that is found in metal.

    Thanks Guys

    -Ryan

    PS: Eventhough I have specified metal, anyone involved in guitar playing PLEASE PLEASE reply!

  2. #2
    Registered User SeattleRuss's Avatar
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    <Looks over his shoulder and then whispers>

    Phrygian Dominant......yeah....that's the ticket.....

  3. #3
    iBreatheMusic Modthor phantom's Avatar
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    Are there any scales that you guys may consider new to my tastes. While being pleasurable to my ears.
    Carvidude!

    Check out the wholetone scale for a "Whooha - what's that?" experience .

    Its a sixnote symmetrical scale and consists of wholesteps exclusively:

    1, 2, 3, b5, b6, b7 (or 1, 2, 3, #4, #5, #6) .

    So if you are in a "metal situation" you could play it over a powerchord with a flattened or sharpend fifth.

    As it has a major 3rd and a flat7th it is a dominant scale - with the included b5 and b6 it is mostly used over altered dominant chords in jazz.
    There is quiet a chance you hear that scale in pop music also!
    So it is a pretty universal scale that, cause of the way it is laying on the fingerboard, is build to shred as well .

    Figure out some licks and arpeggios with it and you'll love it!
    The possibilities of shifting (symmetrical!) and playing around with it are frightening high. I'll post a lick of it as well.

    have fun!
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carvinite
    Phrygian and Dorian modes have been helpful but have often lent a to up-beat feel in my music.
    The Phrygian mode sounding too upbeat? Are you sure you have spent enough time exploring it? I have had my problems related to the Phrygian mode myself; I think it is quite hard to come up with leads, but I wouldn't describe the atmosphere the mode provides as upbeat, exactly?

    Try playing a bassline that underlines E as the tonal center, while you also play the D note as well as the characteristic F note. Then play a melody focusing on the E, F, D and maybe B+G notes.

    Well, you've probably tried it already, but are you sure you consider Phrygian "too upbeat"?

  5. #5
    Latin Wedding Band Los Boleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carvinite
    what are some of the things you guys do when looking at a scale formula and come up with fingerings all over the neck?
    Well for one thing, It is my personal experience that a diminished scale riff only sounds good when it is limited to about three of four consecutive notes. With that in mind, fingerings are usually pretty easy to come up with. I find Diminished arpegios more forgiving though. Those I can use for days on end.
    Ok now after the long drawn out question, I am trying to find unique scales to use in Metal music, I want to add a Odd errie felling to my solo's, which I got from the overused and at sometimes Cliche, Harmonic Minor & Aolein (is that spelled right?) scales. I HATE when my playing sounds cliche, or overly bland in general. Phrygian and Dorian modes have been helpful but have often lent a to up-beat feel in my music.
    Are there any scales that you guys may consider new to my tastes. While being pleasurable to my ears.
    I would continue to look into diminished. there are eight notes in a diminished scale and out of it, you can derive two dim7th Arpegios. These work great in songs of a minor key. over a i chord, I would just start my arp on the tonic. over a V7 chord, I would start the arp on its 7th or b9. on a V7/iv chord, again, start on the seventh or b9.
    Here is an example:
    Diminished licks and arpegios

    The diminished lick is at 26, at 40 begins the arps again at 57 and through-out to the end.
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  6. #6
    Groovy Bastard Maarten's Avatar
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    When coming up with fingerings for a scale, I always try to fit the scale to a familiar chord form. For example, for an aeolian or dorian scale I take a minor7 chord shape I know. This shape already gives me the place of some notes of the scale (1 3 5 and 7), and I only have to fill in the gap.
    After practicing this shape I try to find another voicing of the same chord nearby on the neck. Then I try to connect this one with the previous shape. The chord grips remain my focus point so I don't get lost on the neck.
    Stop talking about modes and start working on your groove.

  7. #7
    Since 1988 Carvinite's Avatar
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    thanks guy's, Los, Im loving your music, the post was cool, i think i need to explore the diminished scale some more.

    Apple-Joe, Phrygian works at times, and it seems to be to 'happy' and expected when I solo over my bands music with it.

    Sven, whoa, that scale, errmm thats gonna need some time to sink in, very very cool IMO. I dont understand somthing though, that is just one scale, I am boxed in by those little boundries. Is there anyway to change that? I mean, does the Wholetone, or the Diminished scale have modes that work together like, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aoleian, and Locrian do? If so fill me in!

    thanks again guys

    -Ryan
    Last edited by Carvinite; 06-28-2005 at 06:21 PM.

  8. #8
    I like music.
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    No, they don't have modes like that. Look at the intervallic structure of the scales. They are symmetric scales, so if you take the whole tone scale and start on any note of the scale, you get a whole tone scale. You can look at it as being 3 tritone pairs a wholetone apart, or two augmented triads a wholetone apart. There are really only two wholetone scales, each with 6 notes.



    The diminished scale works almost the same way. There are only two diminished patterns.
    1 b2 b3 3 #4 5 6 b7
    1 2 b3 4 b5 b6 6 7

    Displace one by a halfstep and you get the other.

    plug them in...

    HW diminished: C Db Eb E F# G A Bb C

    WH diminished: C D Eb F Gb Ab A B C

    notice that the two share a few common notes, C Eb Gb/F# and A, which is a diminished tetrachord. the other notes that fill in the scale are Db E G Bb, which is another diminished tetrachord, along with D F Ab B. If you wanted to make the third diminished scale, add those two tetrachords together to get Db D E F G Ab Bb Cb.
    Last edited by Dommy; 06-28-2005 at 06:51 PM.
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  9. #9
    Registered User satch_master's Avatar
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    Thanks Sven, im gonna try and incorporate the whole tone scale in my metal soloing. flat 5th , 6th and 7th ay.

    Los Boleros - I really enjoyed that Latin song(suprisingly enough), your a master at your style of music, great acoustic solo, i can really hear the dimished feel.

  10. #10
    Latin Wedding Band Los Boleros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by satch_master
    Thanks Sven, im gonna try and incorporate the whole tone scale in my metal soloing. flat 5th , 6th and 7th ay.

    Los Boleros - I really enjoyed that Latin song(suprisingly enough), your a master at your style of music, great acoustic solo, i can really hear the dimished feel.
    Muchisimas Gracias.
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  11. #11
    I, Galactus oRg's Avatar
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    Yeah, the whole tone scale is very effective in metal. One of Buckethead's trademark licks revolves around the whole-tone scale. Very awesome. Here's a small whole-tone lick you might be able to draw some inspiration from. It uses 6-finger tapping.
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    v2sw3CUhw6ln3pr6OFck3ma9u6Lw3Xm6l6Ui2Ne5t5TSFDAb8T DOen7g6RZATHCMHPa21s6MSr53Dp3hackerkey

  12. #12
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    Wow, nice lick there org. The WT scale is great for springboarding ideas. I like to use intervals off each WT note similar to what you did. Try sequential intervals on each WT note , i.e. mi3/Ma3, 4th, TT, 5ths, aug5th, Ma6/Mi6. It sort of gives you a unique sound than just a stepwise WT. You can also use an Aug triad (MiMaj7) as target tones instead, for the intervals.

    VK
    Yesterday's dissonance is today's consonance, while today's atonal is tomorrow's consonance-Liebman

  13. #13
    Heretic 7h3 J35u5's Avatar
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    As a fellow Carvinite (DC727C) I recommend the Hungarian Minor scale. I use it all the time whether I'm writing dark melodies or just heavy/Dark sounding riffs. Familiarize yourself with it. BTW what model Carvin do you have??
    ________
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    Last edited by 7h3 J35u5; 01-20-2011 at 03:37 AM.

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