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Thread: im confused ...

  1. #1
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    im confused ...

    hey everyone ...alright i have acouple of questions for ya if you dont mind.
    Ok the first one is what is the difference between a major scale and a minor scale? from what i can tell its the same scale just started on the II note instead of the I note ...i am i way off here?
    and my second question is I have a little thing with me that is telling me to play a C major scale, voiced in fourths over Dmin7, G7sus, and Fmaj.7(#11).
    first im not so sure what playing in fourths really means and the other part is why does this work? i havnt been able to figure out why you play a c major in 4ths over what appears to be a Fmaj. progression?
    hope for your help and thanks.

  2. #2
    In the woodshed rmuscat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrantMe
    Ok the first one is what is the difference between a major scale and a minor scale? from what i can tell its the same scale just started on the II note instead of the I note ...i am i way off here?
    When you compare scales you have to compare them with the same root. So really you cannot compare a C Major scale with an A Minor.
    The difference between the major and the minor scale to the same root is that the aeolian minor has a b3, b6 and b7 in relation to its major scale. When the minor starts is the 6th degree of the major it is called (i believe) a relative minor scale. Other minor scales are dorian (b3,b7) and phrygian (b2,b3,b6,b7).

    Quote Originally Posted by GrantMe
    and my second question is I have a little thing with me that is telling me to play a C major scale, voiced in fourths over Dmin7, G7sus, and Fmaj.7(#11).
    first im not so sure what playing in fourths really means and the other part is why does this work? i havnt been able to figure out why you play a c major in 4ths over what appears to be a Fmaj. progression?
    I am not sure what voicing in fourths means, but i **think** that progression is in C major. There is only one dominant seventh in a standard major scale and it usually indicates the key. G7 is the V of C Major.

    That's the best i can get to, i might be wrong.
    Edwin Land: Creativity is the sudden cessation of stupidity.

  3. #3
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    ok so i was right then ...right? a minor scale is just a mode of the major scale.


    and thanks for the slap in the face i dont know what i was thinking about that being a F maj. scale. LOL i needed someone else for that to click for some reason ....so thanks for your time and clearing it up for me.

  4. #4
    Jazzman Poparad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrantMe
    hey everyone ...alright i have acouple of questions for ya if you dont mind.
    Ok the first one is what is the difference between a major scale and a minor scale? from what i can tell its the same scale just started on the II note instead of the I note ...i am i way off here?
    You're close. Staring on the ii degree is actually Dorian minor. The vi degree is what is usually refered to as the minor scale. For example, C major starting on the note A is A minor. C major is the relative major of A minor, and A minor is the relative minor of C major.

    Although they have the same notes, a song in a major key will return to the I chord as its home sound (tonic), and a song in a minor key will revolve around the vi chord as its tonic.

    There are also some variations of the minor scale (harmonic minor primarily), so minor key songs a little more complex than just starting on the 6th degree of the major scale.


    and my second question is I have a little thing with me that is telling me to play a C major scale, voiced in fourths over Dmin7, G7sus, and Fmaj.7(#11).
    first im not so sure what playing in fourths really means and the other part is why does this work? i havnt been able to figure out why you play a c major in 4ths over what appears to be a Fmaj. progression?
    hope for your help and thanks.
    If you start on the first note of a scale and go to the second note, that is called a second. In the key of C, going from C to D is a second, or going from D to E is a second. Going from the first note to the third note is a third, like C to E, or D to F, or E to G, etc. Two thirds stacked together (like C E G, D F A, etc) are how normal major and minor chords are built.

    Fourths is just one more step from there. C to F, D to G, E to A, etc. When you play two notes together, you have a chord. If you stack two fourths together, such as C F B (C to F, and F to B), then you have a quartal triad. This is probably what your chart is showing you. This is a common way to play chords in jazz, and is reffered to as quartal harmony.


    The reason why that works over Fmaj is because of that #11. It's not in the key of F major, since that has a natural 11th (the note Bb). When the notes are F G A B C D E F and the chord is Fmaj7, then it's called F lydian. This is almost exactly like F major, but the 4th degree (same thing as the 11th) is raised a half step (hence #11). C major and F lydian share the same notes, so that's why C major played as quartal triads works over Fmaj7#11.

    The difference between C major and F lydian is that the harmony for F lydian is an Fmaj chord, without that chord to define it, it could be either one, or any of the 7 modes of the major scale.

    This same concept applies to the Dm7 and G7sus chords you mentioned. They are all chords found in the key of C, so a C scale played as fourth chords will work over any of them. Fourths are inherantly ambiguous, so the same fourth triad will work over a number of different chords.

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    thanks you so much that really cleared it up for me.... no more banging my head against the wall for tonight. thanks again guys

  6. #6
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    no Pop , it wasnt over head but thanks for your concern...i know a very good amount of stuff ...i understand my guitar for the most part but, i learned bymyself so there are holes that i have to fill all the time and often times it just a matter of wording for me or at times i just have a brain freeze. lol Your reply was exactly what i needed and it cleared up the questions so again i thank you.

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