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Thread: substitute chords

  1. #1
    Composition Apprentice xenor's Avatar
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    substitute chords

    Hi there! I'm a bit confused about the usage of substitute chords. How to approach and leave them? For example let's consider that I'm in key of C. After the Imaj7 chord can I just play Db7 (substitute dom7 of G7) and continue to other diatonic chord?
    And this same question goes for all other types of non-diatonic chords. (Borrowed chords from the minor key, secondary dominant7s etc..)
    Thanks for all help
    "Go without practicing one day, and you know. Go without practicing two days, your friends will know. Go without three days, and everyone knows."

  2. #2
    Mode Rator Zatz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xenor
    For example let's consider that I'm in key of C. After the Imaj7 chord can I just play Db7 (substitute dom7 of G7) and continue to other diatonic chord?
    Sure you can. For example iii or VI would fit perfectly as they belong to the tonic group and Db7 tends to resolve to the tonic. Mind the voiceleading!

    For ex. let's move to iii7: Db7(dominant group) -> Em7(tonic group):

    b -> b
    ab -> g
    f -> e
    db -> d

    Here we've got f-b(from Db7) tritone resolved and the rest of the tones move smoothly by halfsteps.

    Any other jumps to the diatonic chords are very much possible.

    Also tritone substutution is a good chance to move following the circle of 5th (both directions) to involve more non-diatonic chords.

    For ex. Db7 -> Gb7 -> Bm7b5 -> C

    [/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by xenor
    And this same question goes for all other types of non-diatonic chords. (Borrowed chords from the minor key, secondary dominant7s etc..)
    Thanks for all help
    Maybe you could post an example and we'd try to wade through it together?

    Cos there no bans but rather possibilities. Think this way.
    And remember that any chord can lead to any chord - you just have to persuade yourself and your listeners into believinng that it sounds good

    Zatz.
    Zadd9 -> A6 -> T#9b5 -> Zmaj7

  3. #3
    Composition Apprentice xenor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zatz
    For example iii or VI would fit perfectly as they belong to the tonic group and Db7 tends to resolve to the tonic.
    What tonic group?? I'm a bit confused there. Db7 tends to resolve to the tonic but you have resolved to the Em7??


    Quote Originally Posted by Zatz
    Maybe you could post an example and we'd try to wade through it together?
    Well... Here's a chart that I've come up with. It's a chart about the chords that you can use with Cmaj. It also tells which non-diatonic chord is related to which diatonic. (For example A7 is the secondary dominant7 of the D-7. So I've written A7 below the D-7). Since CM7 doesn't have some of these non-diatonic chords, I've put Xs.

    Diatonic Chords: CM7 D-7 E-7 FM7 G7 A-7 B-7b5
    Secondary Dom7: X A7 B7 C7 D7 E7 F#7
    Chromatic Dom7: Db7 Eb7 Fb7 Gb7 Ab7 Bbb7 C7
    Secondary majsubdoms:X GM7 AM7 BbM7 CM7 DM7 EM7
    Secondary minsubdoms: F-7 G-7 A-7 Bb-7 C-7 D-7 E-7
    Secondary supertonics: X E-7 F#-7 G-7 A-7 B-7 C#-7
    Extracted chords : C-7 D-7b5 EbM7#5 F-7 G7 AbM7 Bdim7
    (these are extracted from the paralel minor scale)

    Ok let's discuss on this chart.. How to approach and resolve certain non-diatonic chords???
    "Go without practicing one day, and you know. Go without practicing two days, your friends will know. Go without three days, and everyone knows."

  4. #4
    Registered User SkinnyDevil's Avatar
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    Perhaps this is a good time to explain the purpose of chord substitutions....though there are plenty of folks here far more qualified than I.
    --
    David M. McLean
    Skinny Devil Music Lab
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    "...embrace your fear..."

  5. #5
    Composition Apprentice xenor's Avatar
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    Isnt it for adding a bit spice to your compositions and getting a little "jazzier" sound?
    "Go without practicing one day, and you know. Go without practicing two days, your friends will know. Go without three days, and everyone knows."

  6. #6
    Mode Rator Zatz's Avatar
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    hi xenor,

    sorry for delay - I was a bit busy.

    Quote Originally Posted by xenor
    What tonic group?? I'm a bit confused there. Db7 tends to resolve to the tonic but you have resolved to the Em7??
    Here's the link where I dwell upon it:

    http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/...ead.php?t=2437

    Quote Originally Posted by xenor
    Diatonic Chords: CM7 D-7 E-7 FM7 G7 A-7 B-7b5
    Secondary Dom7: X A7 B7 C7 D7 E7 F#7
    Chromatic Dom7: Db7 Eb7 Fb7 Gb7 Ab7 Bbb7 C7
    Secondary majsubdoms:X GM7 AM7 BbM7 CM7 DM7 EM7
    Secondary minsubdoms: F-7 G-7 A-7 Bb-7 C-7 D-7 E-7
    Secondary supertonics: X E-7 F#-7 G-7 A-7 B-7 C#-7
    Extracted chords : C-7 D-7b5 EbM7#5 F-7 G7 AbM7 Bdim7
    (these are extracted from the paralel minor scale)

    Ok let's discuss on this chart.. How to approach and resolve certain non-diatonic chords???
    For a jazz standard there is a good manual dealing with this kind of question. You can find a link in this thread:

    http://www.ibreathemusic.com/forums/...read.php?t=508

    Warm regards,
    Zatz.
    Zadd9 -> A6 -> T#9b5 -> Zmaj7

  7. #7
    Composition Apprentice xenor's Avatar
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    Do you have any more theorical texts?
    "Go without practicing one day, and you know. Go without practicing two days, your friends will know. Go without three days, and everyone knows."

  8. #8
    Mode Rator Zatz's Avatar
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    Hard copies only...
    Plus lots of bookmarked links to separate articles.
    Last edited by Zatz; 06-30-2004 at 09:48 PM.
    Zadd9 -> A6 -> T#9b5 -> Zmaj7

  9. #9
    Composition Apprentice xenor's Avatar
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    Thanks! The Jazz Theory Text you mentioned is really helpful.
    "Go without practicing one day, and you know. Go without practicing two days, your friends will know. Go without three days, and everyone knows."

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