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Thread: The seven modes

  1. #1
    dwest2419
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    The seven modes

    Hi guys back with another thread. I saw this video discussing the seven modes. And after seeing this video I was shocked that I can play in Dorian. And I didn't know that a lot of songs were written in Lydian and Dorian and in other modes.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF47dr8sVyE

  2. #2
    Registered User Color of Music's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwest2419 View Post
    Hi guys back with another thread. I saw this video discussing the seven modes. And after seeing this video I was shocked that I can play in Dorian. And I didn't know that a lot of songs were written in Lydian and Dorian and in other modes.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF47dr8sVyE
    Songs come in six flavors - two being the most common with one that's rarely if every used. Sure, this is modal stuff, but it relates to the classical stuff, too because these guys say that there are only six scale degrees. Now, while there are seven modes, one of them sounds odd: Locrian.

    This mode from a classical sense, is where the viio [m7b5, dim7, 7b9 (the only one of functional harmony)] comes from. But yes, one can write play or compose modal pieces. Jazz is very fond of them! (So What by Miles Davis (utilizing Dorian - ii of the major scale): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqNTltOGh5c)

    Of course, more than one mode may be utilized within a piece, but the overall piece is usually built around one mode. (Just like a piece can contain multiple keys because of modulations/demodulations - or "false keys" - tonicizations; however, if the latter has occurred, the piece definitely has only one key)!

  3. #3
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwest2419 View Post
    Hi guys back with another thread. I saw this video discussing the seven modes. And after seeing this video I was shocked that I can play in Dorian. And I didn't know that a lot of songs were written in Lydian and Dorian and in other modes.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF47dr8sVyE
    Not a "lot" in Lydian, AFAIK, none I know of in Locrian, and few in Phrygian. But the others are all fairly common.
    Good video, btw (I haven't watched it all yet).

  4. #4
    dwest2419
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    In this video he discusses C Lydian mode C D E F# G A B

    and he also said that I and II chords are used in Lydian which gives it a Lydian sound.


    In this video he discusses C Ionian mode C D E F G A B

    and he also said that the I IV & V chords


    In this video he discusses C Mixolydian mode C D E F G A Bb

    and he also said that the chords are I IV bVII


    In this video he discusses C Dorian mode C D Eb F G A Bb

    and he also said that the chords for Dorian are the minor i & IV major chords


    In this video he discusses C Aeolian mode C D Eb F G Ab Bb

    and he also said that the chords for Aeolian are minor i, iv & v & bVI, bVII chords


    In this video he discusses C Phrygian mode C Db Eb F G Ab Bb

    and he also said that the chords for Phrygian are minor i & bII chords


    In this video he discusses C Locrian mode C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb

    and he also said that no particular songs were written in Locrian

    And there you have it! I wrote all of that information in case someone didnt see the video. But what confused the heck out of me was when he begin to call flattened chords bII and bVI and bVII. I was beginning to think there must some type of borrowed chord from parallel minor kind of sort of that is usually when a chord is named a bVI or a bVII. But he was still in the diatonic key he just wrote a bVI and bVII chords because the Aeolian mode has a b6 and a b7. Usually I thought it was written as a VI and VII. And as for the bII in Phrygian we all know it has a b2 but what confused me was when he wrote bII. Usually you'll think another borrowed parallel minor chord but it's not!

  5. #5
    Registered User Color of Music's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwest2419 View Post

    And there you have it! I wrote all of that information in case someone didnt see the video. But what confused the heck out of me was when he begin to call flattened chords bII and bVI and bVII. I was beginning to think there must some type of borrowed chord from parallel minor kind of sort of that is usually when a chord is named a bVI or a bVII. But he was still in the diatonic key he just wrote a bVI and bVII chords because the Aeolian mode has a b6 and a b7. Usually I thought it was written as a VI and VII. And as for the bII in Phrygian we all know it has a b2 but what confused me was when he wrote bII. Usually you'll think another borrowed parallel minor chord but it's not!
    Yes, bVI and bVII come from the parallel minor and VI and VII are major in minor keys.

    The bII that's nothing more than a tritone sub (sometimes written as subV/V)

    Here's Bb. The bII would be Cb if we were going by scale degrees! However, the guy in the video isn't; therefore, the above option is the only choice.

    The tritone sub (b5 sub, subV/V or bII) would be E (the literal b5 translation would be Fb)

    bII does exist, but not in one of the "main" scales. The scales that have it are Diminshed (HW), and Altered (there may be more, but those are the only two I know for certain)

    Of course, when you look at this classically, the bII is non-existent. Instead, it is referred to as a Neopolitan chord (a sixth usually) (N6 - ie: Db (first inversion) in the key of C.)

    Likewise, the notion that major twos (II) don't exist (whether they're triads or dominants), Here, they are treated as Secondary dominants and are labeled as such. (ie: D, D7/9/13 in the key of C - V/V; A, A7/9/13 in the key of G - V/V) V/V =/= II. This is a very common mistake.

    Again, the b2 refers to the altered degree in the mode. bII refers to the chord function!
    Last edited by Color of Music; 02-10-2013 at 08:36 PM.

  6. #6
    dwest2419
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    Quote Originally Posted by Color of Music View Post
    Yes, bVI and bVII come from the parallel minor and VI and VI are major in minor keys.

    The bII that's nothing more than a tritone sub (sometimes written as subV/V)

    Here's Bb. The bII would be Cb if we were going by scale degrees! However, the guy in the video isn't; therefore, the above option is the only choice.

    The tritone sub (b5 sub, subV/V or bII) would be E (the literal b5 translation would be Fb)

    bII does exist, but not in one of the "main" scales. The scales that have it are Diminshed (HW), and Altered (there may be more, but those are the only two I know for certain)

    Of course, when you look at this classically, the bII is non-existent. Instead, it is referred to as a Neopolitan chord (a sixth usually) (N6 - ie: Db (first inversion) in the key of C.)

    Likewise, the notion that major twos (II) don't exist (whether they're triads or dominants), Here, they are treated as Secondary dominants and are labeled as such. (ie: D, D7/9/13 in the key of C - V/V; A, A7/9/13 in the key of G - V/V) V/V =/= II. This is a very common mistake.

    Again, the b2 refers to the altered degree in the mode. bII refers to the chord function!
    Thank you Color of Music for clearing that up - your the best! ^_^

  7. #7
    Registered User Color of Music's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwest2419 View Post
    Thank you Color of Music for clearing that up - your the best! ^_^
    The first sentence meant to say VI and VII on both instances in case you interpret t wrong. (I didn't proofread the post)

    You're welcome!

  8. #8
    Registered User JonR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwest2419 View Post
    In this video he discusses C Lydian mode C D E F# G A B

    and he also said that I and II chords are used in Lydian which gives it a Lydian sound.


    In this video he discusses C Ionian mode C D E F G A B

    and he also said that the I IV & V chords


    In this video he discusses C Mixolydian mode C D E F G A Bb

    and he also said that the chords are I IV bVII


    In this video he discusses C Dorian mode C D Eb F G A Bb

    and he also said that the chords for Dorian are the minor i & IV major chords


    In this video he discusses C Aeolian mode C D Eb F G Ab Bb

    and he also said that the chords for Aeolian are minor i, iv & v & bVI, bVII chords


    In this video he discusses C Phrygian mode C Db Eb F G Ab Bb

    and he also said that the chords for Phrygian are minor i & bII chords


    In this video he discusses C Locrian mode C Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb

    and he also said that no particular songs were written in Locrian

    And there you have it! I wrote all of that information in case someone didnt see the video. But what confused the heck out of me was when he begin to call flattened chords bII and bVI and bVII. I was beginning to think there must some type of borrowed chord from parallel minor kind of sort of that is usually when a chord is named a bVI or a bVII. But he was still in the diatonic key he just wrote a bVI and bVII chords because the Aeolian mode has a b6 and a b7. Usually I thought it was written as a VI and VII. And as for the bII in Phrygian we all know it has a b2 but what confused me was when he wrote bII. Usually you'll think another borrowed parallel minor chord but it's not!
    Just to echo CoM's post:

    The video guy is referring everything back to C major, so Ab and Bb would be "bVI" and "bVII" in that context, although you're quite right that in C aeolian they would be a diatonic "VI" and "VII".
    However, when we say Aeolian has a "b6" (note, not chord), that's also relative to the parallel major scale.

    In C phrygian, similarly, a Db major chord is "II" (diatonically), but is generally written "bII" - just as the Db note is written "b2" - because it's considered in relation to either parallel major or natural minor.

    As for the major II chord in lydian, this should be distinguished from the secondary dominants CoM describes. IOW, if we see a D or D7 chord in C major, it's possible it's "borrowed from C lydian", but much more likely to be a secondary dominant, V of G. Context would tell you.
    Eg, a good example of C lydian mode is this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SINl5JY7LhI
    You hear the opening C vamp , and you also hear a passing D major chord superimposed, to give it the lydian flavour. That's not a secondary dominant - because it's resolving to C all the time, with no G in sight. But it is a very rare sound in rock in general (although Satriani used lydian mode quite a lot).

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