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Thread: angular movements using extension chords

  1. #1
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    angular movements using extension chords

    1.) When i use the 6ths,7ths,9th,11th,13ths chords when i connect them, they sound "" ANGULAR" movements ,what am i doing wrong?

    a.) Use chord inversions to try to connect them more "step wise" together
    b.) How else can u "Avoid" making the 6th,7th,9th,11th,13th unresolved or angular?


    2.) When composing melodies how can u "avoid" having a melody be Angular?


    3.) Most of my problems is trying or knowing where to put the 6th,7th,9th,11th,13th notes at because they sound very "Angular" why is that and what am i doing so wrong


    4.) My Modulations to different keys sound very "angular" why is that? what am i doing so wrong?

    5.) When using a Pivot chord to modulate , the pivot chord sounds good but the next chord after the pivot chord is going to be Non-diatonic (from another key) it sounds "angular" how can i make it sound more smooth to the ear?

    6.) When using borrowed chords in chord progressions , the borrowed chords sounds very "angular" how can i make it sound more smooth to the ear when using borrowed chords?

  2. #2
    Mad Scientist forgottenking2's Avatar
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    Define "angular"
    "If God had wanted us to play the piano he would've given us 88 fingers"

  3. #3
    Registered User SeattleRuss's Avatar
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    They sound angular probably because you need to play around with the voicings and get some good voice leading going.

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    Registered User SeattleRuss's Avatar
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    I think I believe in deja vu.....

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    voicings and get some good voice leading going.

    How do i make good voice leading ? what are some tips,techniques,basic theory behind voice leading ?

    Define "angular"-
    a.) its not smooth
    b.) its jarred or dissonance
    c.) the chords clash some
    d.) doesn't really resolve well
    e.) the melody line is "sharp"
    f.) not pleasing to the ear much
    g.) sounds like really bad songwriting its not flowing well
    h.) sounds like its out of key or out of tune
    i.) when u bounce from chord to chord it sounds jarred not smooth connected
    j.) your ears can tell it doesn't sound right something is wrong
    k.) sound like there is a couple of wrong or out of key notes

  6. #6
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    My friend loves "joe pass" the jazz guitarist, Joe pass uses alot of 6ths,7ths,9ths,11ths,13ths, slash chords .

    They call it "chordal melody" or chord melody: is when you connect the chords in a chord progression together one of the voices either the alto or tenor will have a melody from really good voice leading.

    1.) But how do a "Apply" voice leading to a chord progression?

    I'm having a real hard time trying to use the 6ths,7ths,9ths,11ths,13ths notes are voice leading like a melody in a way

    2.) How u make voice leading from chord to another chord sound like chord melody like what joe pass use to do ? whats the theory behind it u think?

  7. #7
    Registered User SeattleRuss's Avatar
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    Hi brent,

    Write the chords out on manuscript paper. Just start with a chord progression you like, even just a few chords - nothing too complicated.

    Move the voicings around (change the inversions) until the chords flow smoother from chord to chord.

  8. #8
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    Move the voicings around (change the inversions) until the chords flow smoother from chord to chord.

    Yea thats what i thought but these songwriters can do it in REAL TIME from experience

    Because when i play the extension chords in a chord progression they sound VERTICAL like not horizonal (voice leading )like u know what i mean by the difference

    -----------------------------------

    1.) If you take a vocal melody line and you use just major and minor chords under it for the harmony it sounds different then if you use dimin,sus chords,6ths,7ths,9ths,11,13, slash chords why is that?

    2.) The Harmony changes and ALTERS the melody notes function and degrees it seems like it sounds like it raises them up or alters it even tho the melody is the same notes

    My question is this , why does the harmony or what does the harmony do to the melody line? it seems to be it PULLS it in different directions and applys diffferent color

    example : melody line #1 if you use major in the harmony only in the chord progression is going to make the melody line sound different then if u use minor chords

    example: melody line#1 again if u Substited some of the chords in the chord progression and put in a sus or diminished chord its going to make that SAME MELODY line sound diffferent why is that? why does it PULL or alter/changing the melody line?

    So what i'm saying is when you have chords like 6ths, 7ths,9ths,11ths, 13ths , sus,dim,augmented, WHAT DOES IT DO TO THE MELODY NOTES?LINES?

    Lets break it down::
    1.) when u Add a 6th to a major chord what does it do to the Melody note?
    (it seems to "pull it", changes its direction,changes its color,alters it)

    it seems when u add this 6th in the harmony it really alters/changes the melody note WHY and how? What does the 6th do to the melody note?

    2) when u add a 7th to a major chord what does it do to the melody note?
    (it seems to "pull it", changes its direction,changes its color,alters it)

    it seems when u add this 7th in the harmony it really alters/changes the melody note WHY and how? What does the 7th do to the melody note?

    3.) when u add a 9th to a major chord what does it do to the melody note?
    (it seems to "pull it", changes its direction,changes its color,alters it)

    it seems when u add this 9th in the harmony it really alters/changes the melody note WHY and how? What does the 9th do to the melody note?

    4.) when u add a 11th to a major chord what does it do to the melody note?
    (it seems to "pull it", changes its direction,changes its color,alters it)

    it seems when u add this 11th in the harmony it really alters/changes the melody note WHY and how? What does the 11th do to the melody note?

    5.) when u add a SUS4 to a major chord what does it do to the melody note?
    (it seems to "pull it", changes its direction,changes its color,alters it)

    it seems when u add this SUS4 in the harmony it really alters/changes the melody note WHY and how? What does the SUS4 do to the melody note?

  9. #9
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    God Only Knows (Brian Wilson/Tony Asher)


    D/A.............Bm6
    I may not always love you
    F#m...F#m7.............B/A
    But long as there are stars above you
    E/B............Cdim
    You never need to doubt it
    E/B......................A#m7-5
    I'll make you so sure about it
    A...............E/G#.....................F#m7..............E..F#.G
    God only knows what I'd be without you



  10. #10
    Registered User SeattleRuss's Avatar
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    brent,

    Because when i play the extension chords in a chord progression they sound VERTICAL like not horizonal (voice leading )like u know what i mean by the difference
    right. I'm guessing that you're probably stacking the notes in order, stacking them vertically, adding the extensions on top. This will usually result in some very "blocky", angular sounding chords.

    You ask about these extensions being added to your chords and what they do to the melody line - well, often these extensions are actually part of the melody.


    I forgot to ask before - are you using a piano or keyboard? Not guitar right?

  11. #11
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    God Only Knows (Brian Wilson/Tony Asher)


    D/A.............Bm6
    I may not always love you
    F#m...F#m7.............B/A
    But long as there are stars above you
    E/B............Cdim
    You never need to doubt it
    E/B......................A#m7-5
    I'll make you so sure about it
    A...............E/G#.....................F#m7..............E..F#.G
    God only knows what I'd be without you



    IF you listen to the lead vocal melody line/notes and break it down it changes

    :The first chord is a Slash chord D/A

    1.) Sinces its a Slash chord its not a regular Dmajor its different its a inversion Dmajor with A in the bass. This is going to "Change the Melody" **Height**

    :The Second chord is a Bm6

    2.) Now we just added the 6th degree, So What does it do to the Vocal melody? it has to change it cause its NOT a normal Bminor chord its a Bminor added 6th so the 6ths must do something to the Vocal melody like WHAT please?

    :The third chord is Fmajor then he added the 7th right after it

    3.) Listen how when the melody goes from NON 7th in the harmony it changes the melody when the harmony has the added 7th and then to the Slash chord B/A it changes the vocal lead why is that when u add the 7th and slash chord it did something(but i don't know what ) to the vocal notes why?



  12. #12
    Registered User SeattleRuss's Avatar
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    aaah brent, I don't have a copy of this song....
    do you have the vocal melody written out?

  13. #13
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    often these extensions are actually part of the melody.

    Yes but if you songwrite with just major and minor chords only , like your chord progressions are just major and minor chords then mostly the 6th,7th,9th,11th,13th notes are just passing notes

    But if you songwrite using 6th,7th,9th,11th,13th in your chord progressions then
    the extension chords are RELATED WITH THE vocal melody notes its different

    I forgot to ask before - are you using a piano or keyboard? Not guitar right?

    both i play guitar and piano/keyboards

  14. #14
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    I don't have a copy of this song....
    do you have the vocal melody written out?

    But go on "youtube" and type in beach boys god only knows and listen to how the vocal melody line changes from the chord sheet i posted

  15. #15
    Registered User SeattleRuss's Avatar
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    ok - listening right now

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