Welcome!
Just a few a ground rules first...

Promotion, advertising and link building is not permitted.

If you are keen to learn, get to grips with something with the willing help of one of the net's original musician forums
or possess a genuine willingness to contribute knowledge - you've come to the right place!

Register >

- Close -
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: I want to play jazz

  1. #1
    Registered User Revenant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    170

    I want to play jazz

    Where should i start? Which standards are easy to begin with and what sorts of theory should i know?
    I'd appreciate some help to get me started. My goal is to improvise in a bebop style band or something like that. Improvisational jazz of any kind...

  2. #2
    Ibreathe Follower Kinoble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    361
    Hey revenant,

    As a very quick piece of advise i would check out the 'National guitar Workshop' books.

    Ive got the intermediate one on jazz and it really is excellent.

    It explains things concisely with an explanation of theory behind it-not just 'play this lick' or whatever.

    Ben

  3. #3
    Jazzman Poparad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Akron, OH
    Posts
    1,056
    Some easy standards:

    Satin Doll
    Blue Bossa
    Take the "A" Train
    All Blues



    Theorwise, you should be fluent with the idea of keys, how to build the various chords from the key. Jazz is a very harmony-centric style, and most of the time spent learning the style will be spend learning various types of chords, where they come from, and how to play them.

    Because of this, jazz improvisation is very much based around arpeggios of chords. This is one of the major differences between jazz and other styles of music. Most rock songs tend to be very diatonic to a single key, and solos therefore tend to be much more scalar, without as much emphasis put on outlining the chords when soloing. Jazz often changes keys multiple times through the form of a song, so the scales will change. Jazz solos tend to be much more sensative to what notes of the chord you are playing, and when you play them (what beats or part of the beat). Arpeggios will be a big part of your practice.

    There are a lot of good books on basic jazz theory and how to improvise. Check out www.jazzbooks.com for a good collection to choose from.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    57
    i can personally suggest ted greenes single note soloing volumes one and two. they should be used along with transcribing solos as much as possible.

  5. #5
    Registered User Shredmaniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    218
    The most important thing about learning jazz is you have to LOVE it. You have to listen to tons of jazz music to develop your ear (and enjoy it). Mark Levine wrote in his Jazz Theory book : "Everything you need to know about jazz is in your record collection". He meant listening, and transcribing. Transcribing is very important. If you are able to transcribe without any instrument nearby, it's a plus. You can build up to that eventually. Playing through your transcriptions is excellent too, of course =)

    Another easy standard to add to Poparad's list would be "Saint Thomas". Sonny Rollins' recorded solo is a gem to transcribe.

    When I first started learning jazz, I did it to expand my rock vocabulary. I didn't listen to much jazz. If I did, I'd force myself and not enjoy it. As a result, I'd sound like crap when improvising over even the most simple standards, like Autumn Leaves. I understood the theory behind swinging and constructing a great solo. I could write one down and it would sound decent. But I was unable to apply all the concepts I learned in an improvisation situation...

    My "gateway" to jazz was Thelonious Monk's "Live at the It Club". I hope you found yours =)

    Hope this helps,

    Pierre

  6. #6
    realizing dreams
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Guildford
    Posts
    575
    Hey Pierre, I wouldn't say that I love jazz but I'm starting to get into it and I think it's kind of fun and refreshing. Right now I am learning your strictly II V I take while analizing what your doing. After this I will post my own take and try the bossa nova tune.

  7. #7
    Registered User Shredmaniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    218
    Well, can't wait for your take Padawan =)

  8. #8
    Registered User Revenant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    170
    Well, the reason why I want to learn jazz is because i love it. I feel it is the style of music where i can express myself the most(even more than in blues, if you can believe that ). I have been taking lessons from a bluesman(awesome musician btw) for about a year now and even though he has limited knowledge in the jazz territory, he is currently teaching me "blue bossa"(what a coincidence?) and we are going to start practising "My favourite things".
    What I aim at as a jazz musician is to be able to improvise(play what i hear) and not just copy other peoples work. I have tried soloing over the progression in blue bossa and I have found that using arpeggios(as poparad suggested) brings out the jazzy tones more than just using the pentatonic and major scales.
    Now the hard thing will be to be able to play all the arpeggios in every key
    But i guess jazz is a lifetime project(probably why you see so few young people playing it).

    Thanks for the advices! I'll get to work now!
    Further suggestions appreciated

  9. #9
    Did I say that out loud ? joeyd929's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    1,100

    Learn the melody and lyrics

    Hardcore jazz players from all eras have one little secret.. They learn the melody and lyrics and get that dedicated to memory. It really helps going through a song when you know exactly how the melody and lyrics go.

    Knowing the lyrics adds to the mood of the song. Also knowing the melody inside and out can help you with resolving solos. If you know EXACTLY where you are within the arrangement as it pretains to the lyrics and melody you can always fall into the melody if you are not sure what to play next...

    Like at turnarounds, or just in the middle of improvizing, switch back to melody.

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by joeyd929
    Hardcore jazz players from all eras have one little secret.. They learn the melody and lyrics and get that dedicated to memory. It really helps going through a song when you know exactly how the melody and lyrics go.

    Knowing the lyrics adds to the mood of the song. Also knowing the melody inside and out can help you with resolving solos. If you know EXACTLY where you are within the arrangement as it pretains to the lyrics and melody you can always fall into the melody if you are not sure what to play next...

    Like at turnarounds, or just in the middle of improvizing, switch back to melody.

    i don't think this method is used by great jazz players. Never heard of it...

  11. #11
    Mad Scientist forgottenking2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,542
    Have you tried the Aebersold books? Volumes 1, 2, 24, 3 and 21 (in that order) cover a lot of the concepts you need to know when starting out (I personally think it's better geared towards bebop and more straight ahead styles... some people might disagree). "The Advancing Guitarist" and "The Guitarist Guide to Composing and Improvising" have enough material to keep you busy for the rest of your life. "Voice Leading for guitar" has a whole bunch of ii-V-Is properly voice led and some pretty cool comping rhythms.

    There are really a ton of books you could look into. The thing to do really is to get a teacher and have him point you towards the material the best suits your goals, you could try it by yourself but that's what causes a lot of the "this book sucks" kind of reviews.

    My 2 cents.

    -Jorge
    "If God had wanted us to play the piano he would've given us 88 fingers"

  12. #12
    Ibreathe Follower Kinoble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    361
    Hi revenant,

    I strongly suggest checking out ibreathe contributor Chris J's site:

    www.chrisjuergensen.com

    Its packed with really helpful theory lessons to help you on your way with theory.

    There are a couple in particular that will help with your jazz harmony knowledge,

    here are the links:

    http://chrisjuergensen.com.hosting.d...at_is_jazz.htm

    http://chrisjuergensen.com.hosting.d...om/chords2.htm

    Check out the wealth of other theory info as well!

    Ben

  13. #13
    Registered User Revenant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    170
    I have jammed a bit on the Blue Bossa progression with my teacher. I improvised over the C pentatonic minor scale and the C# major scale(at the key-change), and I am starting to notice things: Scalar improvisation sounds very bluesy while arpeggio-based licks tend to lean over to the more jazzy feel. I also noticed that the 7th interval of the pentatonic minor scale is good to land on when approaching a new chord. Seems like a big leap for me to learn every arpeggio pattern(with inversions) for every chord in the song as I only have experience with rock and blues improvisation where we stay safe with one scale :P
    But I guess that's just he hard way every jazz musician has to learn it. What I wonder is if there is any other scales than the C-minor scale and the C# major scale that i can use for improvising in this song? Can i for example use melodic minor(or jazz minor) or would that clash harmonically?
    Thanks in advance!

  14. #14
    Jazzman Poparad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Akron, OH
    Posts
    1,056
    Quote Originally Posted by Revenant
    I have jammed a bit on the Blue Bossa progression with my teacher. I improvised over the C pentatonic minor scale and the C# major scale(at the key-change), and I am starting to notice things: Scalar improvisation sounds very bluesy while arpeggio-based licks tend to lean over to the more jazzy feel. I also noticed that the 7th interval of the pentatonic minor scale is good to land on when approaching a new chord. Seems like a big leap for me to learn every arpeggio pattern(with inversions) for every chord in the song as I only have experience with rock and blues improvisation where we stay safe with one scale :P
    But I guess that's just he hard way every jazz musician has to learn it. What I wonder is if there is any other scales than the C-minor scale and the C# major scale that i can use for improvising in this song? Can i for example use melodic minor(or jazz minor) or would that clash harmonically?
    Thanks in advance!
    Arpeggios are where it's at in jazz playing.

    As for other scales, there aren't really many more choices that will fit into the harmony. For the section in C minor, the C natural minor scale works (which the C minor pentatonic scale is a part of). You could play C melodic minor on the C minor chords only, and you'll want to make sure not to sit on the 7th note (the B natural) as the standard chord for the song is Cm7, not Cm-maj7. So if you use that scale, make sure to only use the B as a passing tone between C and A (don't sit on it).

    There is one scale that is very important to get down for this song: C harmonic minor. The C minor scale does not contain all the notes of the G7(b9) chord in the song, but the C harmonic minor scale does. When you get to the G7 chord in the song, try switching over to the C harmonic minor scale so you can more adequately hit the chord tones of G7. It might be helpful to think of the scale based around G instead of C, since you'll be using it with a G7 chord and not any kind of C chord. When played this way, the scale is often refered to as "G phrygian dominant" and is associated specifically with that G7(b9) chord.

  15. #15
    Ibreathe Follower Kinoble's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    361
    Hi,

    Not butting in here but

    The G7(b9) chord, if its its own key-center, you can also use mode 7 of Ab melodic minor, the 'altered' mode. It is used for most altered dominant chords-ones with a raised or flat 5 or 9. Ive been getting into it recently, its a bit of an aquired taste!

    Ben

Similar Threads

  1. Age
    By Guila in forum iBreathe Cafe
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 08-25-2007, 02:08 PM
  2. Don't want to play anymore.....
    By zoso in forum Mental Stuff
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 03-13-2006, 07:12 AM
  3. Aprroaches to Learning Jazz Standards
    By widdly widdly in forum Improvisation
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 10-03-2005, 11:00 AM
  4. Learning to play Jazz
    By GuitarSoul24 in forum Improvisation
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 09-26-2005, 03:01 AM
  5. major scale(ionian) for jazz soloing
    By satch_master in forum Music Theory
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-26-2005, 08:25 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •